Official Summer League Games Thread

[specialman]

I know Zion is better than this but I rate tonight as poor. He mishandled the ball, misjudged his jumps, misjudged his opponent when his 3 was batted down; seemed very slow up and down the court, and poor at free throws even the ones that went in rolled around. His jumpers were off target and slow release. He needs to lose some weight and get in much better shape because in the real NBA his opponents will be light years better than this summer stuff. Quite simply I know he’s better than this showing just really disappointed with what I saw then again the media has a way of over promising.

[AusPel]

Wood didn't get a run. He is a lock to miss out now?

[msusousaphone]

That's what you want in Summer League with Zion, TBH. He showed flashes but he also had some things happen to him that never would have happened to him at Duke. You want Zion to have all those things occur so that he can go into TC understanding the adjustments he has to make.

[Pelifan]

Wood didn't get a run. He is a lock to miss out now?

Yea I have no idea what happened there.

[Pelifan]

Kenrich's ball handling stood out to me as much improved.

Frank really needs to work on some things still but he's polished to the point where his talent is really showing now.

[luckyman]

I know Zion is better than this but I rate tonight as poor. He mishandled the ball, misjudged his jumps, misjudged his opponent when his 3 was batted down; seemed very slow up and down the court, and poor at free throws even the ones that went in rolled around. His jumpers were off target and slow release. He needs to lose some weight and get in much better shape because in the real NBA his opponents will be light years better than this summer stuff. Quite simply I know he’s better than this showing just really disappointed with what I saw then again the media has a way of over promising.

LOL. A guy on ESPN radio said online comments like this were forthcoming.

He looked exactly as I expected and damn good for July summer league ball to me.

I know Lonzo and Josh were hyped in their seats.

[Biasvasospasm]

“Zion needs to get in better shape” he showed nothing to suggest he was in any worse shape than anyone else on the floor tonight you numbnuts ESPN hacks

I disagree. His body was clearly larger and less defined than he was at Duke, and he seemed to get winded more easily despite not playing very much. His movement ability and change of direction did not look quite as special. He was noticeably a step slower tonight than smaller guys like, say, Zylan Cheatham. I wouldn't say that was true at Duke, where he moved more like a really athletic wing than a big man. Tonight, he moved like an explosive big man, but still a big man.

Which makes sense! He hasn't played meaningful basketball in 3 months, and he hasn't gotten into a professional training environment.

But I think there was a change in body and movement skills that wasn't evident in, for example, RJ Barrett. For better or for worse, RJ just looked like RJ, just without the ball as much and on a bad shooting night.

I'm not worried about it in a way that takes the shine off the apple, but as he ages he is going to have to work really hard to remain the good kind of enormous, not the bad kind of enormous. That isn't a real concern for most NBA players, but it probably will be for him. Maybe he's so good it only matters between really really good and dominant, like Shaq or pre-injury Demarcus. Maybe he really works to improve his body, like Kevin Love. Maybe there are times when it's good and times where it's bad, like Draymond or Boris Diaw, and his play oscillates accordingly. I think it'd be a mistake to dismiss it as a total non-issue.

[redrum]

Did the snap just happen ?

[luckyman]

His body was not "clearly larger." Just stop it.

[msusousaphone]

Yeah. He was larger. And winded. No big deal. Dude has been going on a giant press tour and has been wined and dined like none of us will ever even be able to dream off. He is an amazing competitor and will be back in shape before I lose one pant size.

But let's not pretend he hadn't put on a few. Sheeeesh.

[luckyman]

Yeah. He was larger. And winded. No big deal. Dude has been going on a giant press tour and has been wined and dined like none of us will ever even be able to dream off. He is an amazing competitor and will be back in shape before I lose one pant size.

But let's not pretend he hadn't put on a few. Sheeeesh.

He didn't. And if he did it may have been 5 lbs at most, if that.

You dont need to put on a few to be winded. You can lose weight and be winded if you havent ran in a while. Cardio doesnt care about your weight.

[Pelifan]

I don't see an issue with Frank, I still think he has a place on this team in the Leandro Barbosa role. That's his bright-side future in the NBA imo. I think you can squeeze him in for 12 - 15 minutes to run the floor hard and attack the basket unless NAW is already that ready.

Think Moore and Hart will play a solid bit of 3

[Biasvasospasm]

I don't understand how this is even an argument. The movement stuff is completely subjective so I get how one could argue that, but it's clear as day to me his arms look less defined and he looks heavier around his midsection.

On the plus, it was nice to get a feel for his feel in pick and roll. He is going to be a monster as a roll man.

[tdcreator]

Perkins said before the game he needs to get down to 255. I hope he does just for the sake of ease on his knees long term. Other than that I saw a guy not prepared for the elite athletes he’ll go against but I’m sure he’ll adjust in time.

[luckyman]

I don't understand how this is even an argument. The movement stuff is completely subjective so I get how one could argue that, but it's clear as day to me his arms look less defined and he looks heavier around his midsection.

On the plus, it was nice to get a feel for his feel in pick and roll. He is going to be a monster as a roll man.

His arms have never been defined. He looks exactly like he did at Duke. His cardio has taken a slide, as expected. It doesnt take very long for that to happen. Full court basketball is equal to 3 Crossfit sessions at least.

[Biasvasospasm]

His arms have never been defined. He looks exactly like he did at Duke. His cardio has taken a slide, as expected. It doesnt take very long for that to happen. Full court basketball is equal to 3 Crossfit sessions at least.

This is a useless argument. But I'd say most observers who are not Pelicans fans agree with me. And I'd guess it's closer to 25 pounds than 5. Here's to hoping we find out when he comes into training camp looking great and there's a story about it.

[luckyman]

This is a useless argument. But I'd say most observers who are not Pelicans fans agree with me. And I'd guess it's closer to 25 pounds than 5. Here's to hoping we find out when he comes into training camp looking great and there's a story about it.

You can certainly find a still photo from tonight that looks exactly like that. And it depends on which observers you're talking about. And if you're suggesting he's 25 lbs heavier than he was 3 months ago...jesus. I bow out.

[AusPel]

His arms have never been defined. He looks exactly like he did at Duke. His cardio has taken a slide, as expected. It doesnt take very long for that to happen. Full court basketball is equal to 3 Crossfit sessions at least.

I've seen plenty of pics of Zion with (proper) ripped arms

[new city champ]

You can get straight jacked up just doing body weight training. NFL great Herschel Walker never touched weights and retired with the same sculpted 235-pound frame that he came into the league with....

[Pels4Life]

undefeated in summer league and pretty much beat the projected summer league champs.....lets go get that chips Pels!!!

[GuardianAngel25]

He didn't. And if he did it may have been 5 lbs at most, if that.

You dont need to put on a few to be winded. You can lose weight and be winded if you havent ran in a while. Cardio doesnt care about your weight.

Yea I feel many people have never even seen him before tonight.. The same things have been getting said about him since he got to Duke. Like you said 5lbs and maybe 8lbs max of bad weight! That will get cut down just practicing.. Now is he a little out of shape? Sure very possible. All he did to me was just show how hard he is to stop even on a night where nothing was going down for him. 11 points on 4-9 FG in just 9 minutes? This kid without any shot at all and shooting 50% from FT line is a 20ppg scorer.. He just turned 19 years old so people need to calm down a little..

[Pelicanidae]

Does Zion need to lose a little weight? Sure, but like I've said before (and plenty of other people have said it too) it's not extra weight. He doesn't need to lose it because he's fat, he just needs to lose it to help preserve his knees. Too much muscle mass can be bad for your joints too: your ankles don't care if it's fat, muscle, or the world's heaviest hat. Weight is weight.

But did he look fat tonight? No. He looked a little tired because, like everyone has said, he hasn't played organised basketball in basically three months. I don't care how good you are at something, if you take a 3 month break, it'll take you more than NINE MINUTES to fully re-integrate it into your system.

He showed hustle, defense, IQ, rebounding ability, and the capacity to get to the line with ease. That's all good enough for me for a summer league game, especially when we already know what he looks like when fully locked in.

[Mythrol]

I'm not looking at Frank Jackson in a vacuum and saying ''oh hey, is this man A Valid Player?''. I'm looking at him with regards to our needs and expectations, since what he's competing for are rotation minutes on OUR roster.

He can shoot, or at least has real potential for it. He can get his own shot, or at again, has at least showed potential for it. There are plenty of teams who need that desperately, and dammit, a few years back WE would have needed that desperately. But we are entering this season with a bunch of players who can either create their own shots as well as shots for others (Jrue, Ingram, Zion) or who are able to create offense without demanding the ball (Redick, Favors, Moore).

So if Jackson wants minutes in OUR rotation, yes, he needs to be able to do more than just create his own shot in isolation off the dribble.

These are basically all 1st or 2nd year guys we are bringing in. We have no idea what our true long term needs are for this team. Instead of trying to force a player into a role they aren't as good at for a short term need, I'd much rather we develop them into what position we will need long term.

I don't mind the Pelicans trying to use offseason and summer league to expand Jackson's skillet, it makes sense. But trying to judge a player based on a short term fit right now is silly. We might have more trades coming, players will develop and change this early on, when next year's summer league comes around this team could have an entirely different set of needs.

[Mythrol]

Wood didn't get a run. He is a lock to miss out now?

I heard someone say he was a last minute pull from summer league. I'm not sure what that reason was or if it's even true.

The only thing I could come up with is w eknow one of our 3 non guaranteed contracts have to be cut unless a trade happens so maybe they went with Wood. However we could have entered training camp with 20 players so I'm not sure if we'd make that move this early.

[Pelicanidae]

These are basically all 1st or 2nd year guys we are bringing in. We have no idea what our true long term needs are for this team. Instead of trying to force a player into a role they aren't as good at for a short term need, I'd much rather we develop them into what position we will need long term.

I don't mind the Pelicans trying to use offseason and summer league to expand Jackson's skillet, it makes sense. But trying to judge a player based on a short term fit right now is silly. We might have more trades coming, players will develop and change this early on, when next year's summer league comes around this team could have an entirely different set of needs.

It's not just short term fit. It's longer term too. You're correct that we will have roster changes and player development throughout next season and that by next summer we may have a different lineup with different requirements.

It's that very fact that makes it even more vital for Frank to expand his game beyond one dimensional scoring. When the roster gets turned over, who is it that gets moved? It's the least valuable guys. The guys who have been made redundant (think Moore being upgraded into Redick and now being replaceable) and the guys who just straight up aren't very good (goodbye Diallo).

You say ''I'd much rather develop them into what position we will need in the long term'', in the same paragraph that you write ''we have no idea what our true long term needs are''. It's true: we DON'T know what our long term needs are, so if a player wants to stick around their best bet is being good at more than one thing and having a varied skillset that could fit into multiple lineups. If you have ONE SKILL then you will be the first to go when we get to roster chopping.