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Well I think Ainge really wants Davis. But understands the consequences of him leaving for nothing. I think Ainge's sense we rather not trade Davis to LA and he's trying to see just how much he has to give up. And ultimately is it worth it if the worse case scenario happens. As should all GM's in this situation.Originally Posted by Mythrol
The dance team is having auditions today. So it might not happen today.
Washington wouldn't give up Beal for #4 and Ball and they're certainly not sending the #9 back.
I love it from our standpoint.
I feel like the Wizards need more, though. They need to be sold on a rebuild. I could see them needing Ingram or those 1sts, if not more.
BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.
BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.
Find a 4th team for help?
So I've been thinking......and maybe it's because I'm delirious because of the lack of sleep the last few days....but don't you think that Lavar would actually fit in with the city of New Orleans? Like.....people would actually vibe with him. Again I'm probably delirious so please don't hold it against me lmao
I think Kyrie is gone too, but he might reconsider if AD to Boston becomes reality. You never know what goes on in the bizarro mind of Kyrie.
I agree that Ainge is holding back at least one of them and the Memphis pick. He has to be able to sell that there is something to build around in the event AD leaves. He also knows that if the Lakers sign anyone to a max deal this offseason and the Knicks sign KD and Kyrie, AD’s first two choices will be off the table when he does hit free agency. With his best options gone, he might not be so quick to turn down the supermax.
I agree that of course Ainge is trying to give up as little as possible for AD. That's just good business. However if Ainge really was willing to walk away from the table for AD because he wants to build around Tatum and/or Brown then I think it's dangerous for all the reports from Boston sources to be leaking saying Ainge is all in on getting AD and will do whatever it takes to get him. That sets up a scenario where if Ainge misses out AGAIN on getting a superstar AND Kyrie leaves that the fans could turn on Ainge.
As much as Tatum and Brown is a nice core, Boston is still capped out and that team as constructed isn't going to win especially now that the east is stronger. Ainge is going to have to make a move of either going all in to win a ring or start rebuilding and blowing up his team. If they go into the season with the same team minus Kyrie that's a terrible look.
Keep in mind Ainge passed on Kwahi because he didn't want to give up Brown. If they do that trade last year it's very likely that they are the ones holding the trophy right now instead of Toronto. Ainge at some point has to make some type of move. His time will run out too if he continues to do nothing.
An interesting point might be that no one wants to help the Lakers (speculating).
I think I read somewhere that other agents and teams are giving the Pels kudos for standing their ground. What Rich Paul and the Lakers did was disgusting and I think most people involved in the league want to see it fail. They do not want a player and agent to have that kind of power. So as much as we don't want to deal AD to the Lakers, what if no team wants to help the Lakers get him even if it benefited them? Which actually kinda sucks for us because it allows Ainge to low ball us.
The Celtics fans I know don’t want to trade their young guys for a rental, and its been pretty clear that Ainge will be aggressive for AD, but him being willing to “go all in” and do “whatever it takes” is mostly an incorrect Pelicans fan interpretation.
If I were a Celtic fan, I would be thinking the same thing as I would be worried about AD's threat not to sign. None of us know how Ainge feels.
If Ainge, at this point, was willing to go all in or do whatever it takes, we’d have a deal.
Ok- So here we're giving up both Holiday and AD. But, we have some vets on this team so Jrue isn't necessary. Smart, Tatum and Brown should be more than enough veteran leadership for Zion.
Why we do it: We get EVERYTHING in this scenario. Tatum, Brown and Smart plus Williams who has potential. We get 3 first rounders PLUS the Memphis pick. It's a LOT. Maybe we package some of the Boston picks for a higher pick or a player, I don't know. Sure we have to take Hayward, but we aren't winning a championship while he's here and we should be more than fine with eating his cap. He may even improve this year being 2 years removed from the injury anyway.
Why Boston does it. They get to move on from Hayword's terrible salary. Jrue is arguably better than anyone they're giving up by himself. Having Jrue may convince AD to stay beyond just a rental, and it may entice Kyrie to stay as well. They'd have a pretty studly foursome with this:
Kyrie
Jrue
AD
Horford
If Kyrie walks, then you still have a lot of cap room to sign someone else. Horford can be restructured/extended to open money also. Those two moves would open a Max (Butler?).
From Lowe's article today:
"If there is a team feeling Leonard regret now, it is Boston. The Celtics had the coveted young players and draft picks to outbid Toronto. Boston larded up its offer with draft picks, but declined to include Jayson Tatum or Jaylen Brown without gaining more assurance than was possible about Leonard's health and interest in re-signing, sources said at the time of the trade.
Boston's fretful waffling was understandable in the moment. Brown appeared on track to be an All-Star. Maybe more important, Boston believed it had a championship team already. The Celtics had just taken James and the Cleveland Cavaliers to Game 7 without Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward. Was it worth trading a key piece of what appeared then to be both a championship present and future to rent Leonard and watch him leave?
(It is incredible how much has changed for Boston in the past calendar year -- how many things went wrong, how many carefully laid plans appear in jeopardy.)
Acquiring Leonard also would have left Boston with four max-salary players in Irving, Hayward, Leonard and Al Horford -- untenable for long. Boston was saving its chips for Anthony Davis. Everyone around the league -- including the Raptors -- wondered if Leonard's health would ever allow him to be the player he was in 2017.
In retrospect, Boston was both too cautious and too optimistic about its existing core. (I was, too, by the way. Speaking of thin margins: A lot of us got so wrapped up in Boston pushing Cleveland to seven that we breezed past the fact that a middling Milwaukee team had done the same to the Celtics two rounds earlier.)
If you have a chance to win the title and a healthy culture, believe in that culture enough to take a risk that meaningfully boosts those title chances -- even for just one season. Every chance is precious. Even teams that appear set up to contend for five or 10 years are delicate organisms. Lesson learned."
I think Danny is gonna lowball himself out of a championship 2 years in a row. Feels inevitable that Lakers will give the best offer unless Danny quit trying to win trades and try to win championship.
Edit: I didn't like that Boston squad last year when Irving was healthy. They had an easy path to the ECF and choked in a game 7 at home. They had no excuse to just run it back with East really loading up. If Khawi was coming to a contender in the East. You do everything in your power to stop it.
Last edited by Taker597; 06-15-2019 at 10:49 AM.
Couldn't the same be said about the Lakers though? Even as desperate as they are, they are holding assets back until the last minute. I don't think either has gotten to "best and final" yet. By the time we get to maybe Tuesday, they should be there. It may never be an "all in" but I do not think either have thrown out their best offer yet.
I got success with the same trade, but I subbed Yabusele for Brown (assuming they would want to keep him). I let them keep the #22 pick this year and took their 2021 FRP. It gives them a pick to fill out their roster some this season and spreads out the FRPs for the Pelicans over three years.
Ainge’s dilemma is trying to beat Lakers package while also leaving behind a team that is good enough to contend next year, and not completely devoid of assets if/when AD leaves. It’s a tough spot to be in. Damned if you, damned if you don’t. If AD goes to Lakers and for the 2nd year in a row you miss out on a player that leads a team to a championship, that’s a lifetime of regret. If you trade for AD, don’t make the finals, and he leaves for L.A. and you’re left with Hayward and an overpaid Rozier, that’s also a lifetime of second guessing.
Not an enviable position.
But man, F da Celtics! And Boston! Haven’t those people won enough titles!?!!
How could the same be said? #4, Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma is "everything", no? It's just not appealing. Maybe if they throw in three future first round draft picks?
Interesting article. Everyone talks about how great Ainge is, but is he really? He seems to win some smaller trades, but when it comes time to go all in for a championship team, his ego takes over and he seems to want to win media approval rather than shoot for the moon. He has failed in trying to get PG13 or Kawhi. Will he fail again for AD? If so, what kind of genius is he really?
But if you believe the media, even that has not been offered yet.
I'd still take that too.
I agree. Very tough decision. That is why he makes the big bucks I guess.
I've seen where Kuzma has been added. Even if he hasn't formally, and we say add Kuzma and we have a deal they would surely take it I think.
I agree with you.....except I don't think Ainge trading Tatum and Brown for AD makes them contenders. They would be worse than the team we had two seasons ago when we swept Portland and then were ousted by GS.
The problem here is that Ainge is screwed, either way. Go all in, get AD, have nothing around him and lose. Don't make the trade, roll back what you had last season except without Kyrie and lose.........or try to low ball the Pels into trading AD and keeping Tatum. That's really his only option. It's hard to play chicken with a man that's only option is not blinking.
From Ainge's point of view, he wants to wait until after free agency to do a deal. He knows the Lakers would be stuck between a rock and hard place.
From the Lakers point of view, deal likely has to go now. If they wait, they could land in a spot where they wouldn't have the maneuverability to be able to legit say "we don't have to do this deal, we can wait a year." They're probably looking at all types of options that allow them to compete this year without leaving themselves screwed from a 2020 FA position.
From the Celtics point of view, the deal has to wait. If the Lakers land a big FA, they don't have the cloud of him leaving for Laker land in FA, thus upping their chances of re-signing him.
From the Pelicans point of view: there's risk everywhere.
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