Jrue return!!!!!

[DaBrow]

This is post is simply incorrect. Ill just rebut in the same order as you posted I suppose.

To start with, for success:

Asik = I'm of the mindset that Asik is doing what he was brought in to do. I am not saying he has been great. But who expected him to be? Yes he can be a below the rim, stone handed buffoon, getting his shot blocked by Muggsy Bouges. He is what he is, and if he can clean up the dropped passes and getting his shot stuffed on the glass, I would have zero problems with him. What exactly has he done to under perform? He is besting his career averages in almost every single category. Has AD played better next to him? Success!

EG = who is the #1 3pt % over the last half of the season??? Does anyone remember EG playing next to Jrue earlier in the year? Shooting in the low 30s? Is there a correlation? a causation? Any relationship at all? Impossible to prove one way or the other so why try? The fact is simple, the why is irrelevant. He is playing better next to Reke. Success!

Tyreke has a better winning percentage as the starting PG than Jrue. This is not an opinion. This year only, we were 18-19 with Jrue .486 win%. Since then, we are 23 and 19.. .547 win%. .486 would place us 11th in the West. While .547 would have us barely in the 8th seed. You can use any stat or variable you like, but Ill just use the only one that actually matters. Simple math shows that we have won at a higher percentage without him. You don't get in to the playoffs based on variables. Success!

You mentioned Jrue not playing with AD as an excuse for his record. Well, AD has missed 14 games this year. Guess how many were while Jrue was playing......wait for it.........1 game. (1) uno. Jrue played OVER 97% of his games with AD....whoops. So, over the last 42 games we have a better winning percentage, but AD has literally missed 31% (13/42) of those games, yet we still have a better winning percentage? So to recap:

Our best player, the jewel of the basketball world right now, has missed all of his games while Reke has been the PG, yet we STILL have a better winning percentage. Jrue started and played 97% of his games with our best player, and led us to a worse record than the guy who started only 69% with our best player. Allow this to marinate for a second.

It is obviously a lot more complex than this simple illustration, HOWEVER, anyone would be a fool to deny the validity.

Some people love to play the what if game, which IMO is a worthless endeavor. What if your girlfriend had a penis? Then she would be a man right? Whoop ti do. What ifs don't matter. Facts matter. Being available to play matters. Winning games matters. NOTHING ELSE DOES.

For the record, I have never been really against the Jrue trade, until he got re-injured this year. I now believe he is Brandon Roy 2.0 (I know it is a different condition) and want to trade him for value while we still can. There are many, like most on this forum for example, who do not believe Jrue is injury prone. So I don't believe his trade value is destroyed yet. Yes it is obviously diminished, and we would be buying high and and selling low. But sometimes you simply have to stop throwing good money after bad. IF, he comes back next year and this happens again, then his trade value will be DESTROYED. Trade him now while you can still get a QUALITY back up PG (great defender) and a QUALITY back up SG. Reke and EG seem to work well to me, why not let them gel? Is it because MM from BSS says so? (MM -not a shot at you, I just feel the crowd tends to follow you versus making their own opinions - I appreciate your time and effort, while I sometimes disagree with it.)

Back on track -- Jrue's elite Defense.

Um, yes, you said it correctly. Because Jrue has not received any actual accolades he is not an elite defender. You conveniently only focused on the DPOY when I clearly mentioned all accolades. (Rank - Amateur move) Perhaps I just have higher standards than you? Who knows. In the NFL there are Pro-bowlers and All-pros. In the NBA there are all-stars and all-NBA. These are NOT the same. If Jrue was INDEED an elite defender, then he would have at least won a 3rd team all defense by now. He would be mentioned throughout the NATIONAL media as such - an elite defender. Jrue is without question our best - VERY BEST perimeter defender (maybe douglas is close?) but that does not make him elite. Elite compared to you or I? of course, compared to his peers....not so much. His defense is so elite, that the team wins at a higher rate when he is not there.

Again, I used to like Jrue a lot. I thought he was up and coming. But he is still just a slightly above average point guard in this league. All of his "perceived" strengths has not led to victories..... so what are they actually worth?

Slow pace:

I don't know. Try watching some games? Jrue does not push the ball like Reke does. He certainly has the ability to run the court, but he is always playing "in control." Strange to have a known turnover problem (2.25 career Assit/TO %) (would currently rank him 38th place in the league), yet be considered "in control." Hustle? I said I expect and demand all players to hustle, your comment just does not make sense.


Come on man, if the competition is not equal than I just look like a bully. Get it together over there.

Ahh see i was confused, I thought you were referring to TEAM success.... not individual success, based on your opinion.

EG = who is the #1 3pt % over the last half of the season??? Does anyone remember EG playing next to Jrue earlier in the year? Shooting in the low 30s?

Uhhhh..... WHAT?.... So I guess Jrue passed the ball to hard to Gordon? Those hard passes made him shoot AWFUL in the beginning of the season? I'm glad you brought up Gordon's bad shooting though, even though you seemed to forget that I mentioned him along with AD later in my post. Also, since you decide to ignore the many times I've said that there are a lot of variables that go into why our record was sub .500 with Jrue, I will do a little digging for you.....

Back-court play with Jrue:
November-December stats:
Jrue : FG = 45% 3FG = 37.4% FT = 85% TOs = 2.3
Tyreke : FG = 42% 3FG = 28% FT = 69% TOs = 2.9 <---- all while taking more shots than Jrue
Gordon : FG = 40% 3FG = 33% FT = 77% TOs = 1.3

You are right.... I see it now.... How could Jrue not do more?!? He is easily to blame in this case. I guess we can also just ignore the fact that most of our other back court min were going to Rivers, Salmons, Jimmer, and 10-day contract guy. Instead of Qpon and Cole. They wouldnt add any significance to our games.... Lets also ignore the fact that 23 of the 35 games Jrue played were against teams that are above .500. And that 23 of those games were against play-off teams. 16 of them being against the Western conference play-off teams.

Now on Jrue's defense. Arguing over an individuals defense is stupid in my opinion. No real data to back up claims. BUT I guess we can look at his individual match-ups:

w/ Jrue
Russ: FG = 34% 13 TOs
Irving FG = 45% 3 TOs
Lillard FG = 43% 5 TOs
Curry FG = 50% 8 TOs
Wall FG = 38% 9 TOs

All of those were two games, another testament to how hard our schedule was. But as you can see he held everyone but Curry to lower than avg FG% (Curry's gunna get his). Also, made almost all of them turn the ball over more than their avg. Like I said it is hard to judge someone's defense, but Ill just leave these stats here for you, rather than just saying my opinion.

Oh and I see you forgot to post that Jrue was having his best A/TO ratio of his career this year before his injury, at 2.96. Which was good for top 7 in the league. But anything to make your argument better. Also, lets ignore that Tyreke's A/TO ratio is 1.93 for his career.

source: http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/pl...tTurnoverRatio

Go find Tyreke in there, ill wait.

Now I've presented you with actually stats. We had an amazingly hard schedule when Jrue was in the line-up, at the beginning of the year, where many of the new additions (Cole, QPon) were not here yet. Add in the fact that Gordon and Tyreke were not hitting their shots at the percentages they are now, and you can clearly see why we may have lost a few more games. Also, I forgot to mention Asik was not playing as well as he is now, and i guess you can say that he started to mesh better with more playing time.

That was a nice little mini shot you took at MM there, but you comment on people accepting MM's opinion blindly, even though your entire post is basically your opinion. So, I should just accept yours?

I agree the competition is not equal. Keep up.

[4Real]

Wow another "term paper". These are impressive and valid arguments on both sides.

[4Real]

Trade Jrue for Justin.

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/2...justin-holiday

[SilkySlim]

Tyreke has a better winning percentage as the starting PG than Jrue. This is not an opinion. This year only, we were 18-19 with Jrue .486 win%. Since then, we are 23 and 19.. .547 win%. .486 would place us 11th in the West. While .547 would have us barely in the 8th seed. You can use any stat or variable you like, but Ill just use the only one that actually matters. Simple math shows that we have won at a higher percentage without him. You don't get in to the playoffs based on variables. Success!

For how much thought young homie put into this post i'd expect ur math to be better.

With Jrue we were 18-19 with him at pg.

With Reke at pg since Jrue went out, Reke taking over on 1/14 at detroit we're 23-15. Did u count games he sat out since then?

That actually gives u a stronger argument. Team is far better w/ Reke at pg. As I said since Reke was traded here-he's the teams best pg. Nothing shows Jrue being better. Could help off bench tho.

We've got a .605 win % since Reke took over at pg fulltime in games he started at pg-38 game sample size. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than anything with Jrue.

My question is is Jrue's salary worth being a 6th man. To me its not so i'd look to trade him.

[4Real]

I don't think you are remembering either of their injuries correctly. George was originally suppose to miss the entire year. Rose the very day the Bulls gave a time table was interviewed and said he wasn't sure when he'd return and he didn't want to put a time table on it.

Rose is returning tonight. Just FYI

[504ByrdGang]

For how much thought young homie put into this post i'd expect ur math to be better.

With Jrue we were 18-19 with him at pg.

With Reke at pg since Jrue went out, Reke taking over on 1/14 at detroit we're 23-15. Did u count games he sat out since then?

That actually gives u a stronger argument. Team is far better w/ Reke at pg. As I said since Reke was traded here-he's the teams best pg. Nothing shows Jrue being better. Could help off bench tho.

We've got a .605 win % since Reke took over at pg fulltime in games he started at pg-38 game sample size. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than anything with Jrue.

My question is is Jrue's salary worth being a 6th man. To me its not so i'd look to trade him.

When Jrue was pg we also had one of the toughest schedules.Wwhy can't people just comprehend these 2 guys play well together and treat Gordon as if he has to be part of the equation.

[LOLLakers]

If Jrue was INDEED an elite defender, then he would have at least won a 3rd team all defense by now.

So if Jrue was an elite defender he would have received something that doesn't exist?

[Alvis]

For how much thought young homie put into this post i'd expect ur math to be better.

With Jrue we were 18-19 with him at pg.

With Reke at pg since Jrue went out, Reke taking over on 1/14 at detroit we're 23-15. Did u count games he sat out since then?

That actually gives u a stronger argument. Team is far better w/ Reke at pg. As I said since Reke was traded here-he's the teams best pg. Nothing shows Jrue being better. Could help off bench tho.

We've got a .605 win % since Reke took over at pg fulltime in games he started at pg-38 game sample size. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than anything with Jrue.

My question is is Jrue's salary worth being a 6th man. To me its not so i'd look to trade him.

I wonder which of these had the most impact for the team :
- Tyreke starting instead of Jrue
- Getting DC, Qpon and Cole instead of rivers, salmons and a random end of bench guy ...

hard to tell really
Seriously, comparing the records of 2 different teams is irrevelant. I understand why people have doubts but this argument is still flawed (and yeah an argument can be made about the strength of schedule too).

[ml wave]

If Jrue was INDEED an elite defender, then he would have at least won a 3rd team all defense by now.

So if Jrue was an elite defender he would have received something that doesn't exist?

Of course. How better to define elite? And how else would you know?

[N.O.Bronco]

For how much thought young homie put into this post i'd expect ur math to be better.

With Jrue we were 18-19 with him at pg.

With Reke at pg since Jrue went out, Reke taking over on 1/14 at detroit we're 23-15. Did u count games he sat out since then?

That actually gives u a stronger argument. Team is far better w/ Reke at pg. As I said since Reke was traded here-he's the teams best pg. Nothing shows Jrue being better. Could help off bench tho.

We've got a .605 win % since Reke took over at pg fulltime in games he started at pg-38 game sample size. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than anything with Jrue.

My question is is Jrue's salary worth being a 6th man. To me its not so i'd look to trade him.

If you think there is literally nothing that says Jrue is a superior PG then you are discrediting your credibility on this discussion. The defensive gap alone makes you look foolish. Then we can look at assist to turnover ratio. After that we can look past assist numbers and look at strength of facilitation. Then we can move on to scoring skill set. All of those look more favorable to Jrue.

[UptownFuz504]

Per Dell Demps on NBA radio: Jrue is day to day. Also said Jrue has a rod in his leg and he has to adjust to it

[N.O.Bronco]

Per Dell Demps on NBA radio: Jrue is day to day. Also said Jrue has a rod in his leg and he has to adjust to it

Just leave him out and let him have the offseason to get healthy.

We aren't getting out of the first round even if we make it and he is playing so why risk it?

[4Real]

Per Dell Demps on NBA radio: Jrue is day to day. Also said Jrue has a rod in his leg and he has to adjust to it

Duh. They said this 4 weeks ago too.

[daybreaker]

For how much thought young homie put into this post i'd expect ur math to be better.

With Jrue we were 18-19 with him at pg.

With Reke at pg since Jrue went out, Reke taking over on 1/14 at detroit we're 23-15. Did u count games he sat out since then?

That actually gives u a stronger argument. Team is far better w/ Reke at pg. As I said since Reke was traded here-he's the teams best pg. Nothing shows Jrue being better. Could help off bench tho.

We've got a .605 win % since Reke took over at pg fulltime in games he started at pg-38 game sample size. FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR better than anything with Jrue.

And how many of Jrue's games were with a bench of Rivers/Jimmer/Salmon/Babbit/Miller? You cant pin our turn around solely on Reke - thats a HUGE disservice to how great QPon, Cole and Cunningham have played.

[rt0307]

Duh. They said this 4 weeks ago too.

day-to-day is an upgrade over indefinitely

[RaisingTheBar]

day-to-day is an upgrade over indefinitely

This team uses that damn 'indefinitely' word way too loosely/often.

[jben_net]

Also the stretch we had with Jrue was particularly tough.

[42]

Lots of inanity in this thread.

Everything about Loomis is overblown. Loomis is a proxy for the owner, and the owner is a check on his GM in all cases in the NBA.

Doctors, Jrue, his leg, rules, laws, Dell, Monty, and more all have some say on if Jrue plays. A strong enough protest, and he will not play.

We see pictures of him doing basketball activity and hear reports on how he feels. He is clearly not shut down yet, and there is clearly legitimate hope of him playing given the few days left in the season. Reacting to what they say is fine, but react to what they do, too.

Him returning is on the table.

And a stress fracture / reaction is not a weakness in bone. It is a separation caused by too intense and too repetitive of a stress on a bone given its strength. It is about bone and activity. It can be managed provided the bone can deal with typical NBA wear and tear. Without knowing how his routine differs from that of typical guards or the details of his surgeries, very little can be inferred from the diagnosis alone.

I've got my eye out for Jrue to be evaluated again soon. Otheriwse, why participate?

[Yanks2740]

I think it is important to read what Holiday said exactly. If I recall correctly, he said the doctors did not give him a timetable so he would not rush back a week early, or any earlier than he should. Who knows? One day soon they might just tell him to get out there and lace em up.

[Caffeinedisastr]

And how many of Jrue's games were with a bench of Rivers/Jimmer/Salmon/Babbit/Miller? You cant pin our turn around solely on Reke - thats a HUGE disservice to how great QPon, Cole and Cunningham have played.

[Caffeinedisastr]

Lots of inanity in this thread.

Everything about Loomis is overblown. Loomis is a proxy for the owner, and the owner is a check on his GM in all cases in the NBA.

Doctors, Jrue, his leg, rules, laws, Dell, Monty, and more all have some say on if Jrue plays. A strong enough protest, and he will not play.

We see pictures of him doing basketball activity and hear reports on how he feels. He is clearly not shut down yet, and there is clearly legitimate hope of him playing given the few days left in the season. Reacting to what they say is fine, but react to what they do, too.

Him returning is on the table.

And a stress fracture / reaction is not a weakness in bone. It is a separation caused by too intense and too repetitive of a stress on a bone given its strength. It is about bone and activity. It can be managed provided the bone can deal with typical NBA wear and tear. Without knowing how his routine differs from that of typical guards or the details of his surgeries, very little can be inferred from the diagnosis alone.

I've got my eye out for Jrue to be evaluated again soon. Otheriwse, why participate?

I agree.

[4Real]

If he is not 100%, Why put him out there? It could do more harm then good. See Ryan Anderson.

[JunkHead]

#Pelicans' Jrue Holiday (right lower leg stress reaction) was upgraded to questionable for game vs. Phoenix. He has been out since Jan. 12.

— Darrell J. Williams (@DWPelicansbeat) April 10, 2015

Boom.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Let's stop speculating based on one quote and talk about this, I don't know, random date.

Let's say Friday will be an interesting day to discuss it

Sorry, we've known about Friday for a while but weren't allowed to report it. But I tried to give you guys hints!!

And don't worry, I won't take those up who wagered against me. I had inside info. But I do want to change my AVI anyway. Suggestions?

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Sorry, we've known about Friday for a while but weren't allowed to report it. But I tried to give you guys hints!!

And don't worry, I won't take those up who wagered against me. I had inside info. But I do want to change my AVI anyway. Suggestions?

Eric Gordon or Chris Kaman

Seriously though is he ready to go?
Will he play many minutes?