Melo to the Heat? Big 4 possible?

[NMThreeMVP]

Why any player with a market would opt into a contract is beyond me...

Guaranteed money is the only money that matters. Why would Melo (or Lebron, Wade, Bosh, etc) opt into the last year of their deals, when they can sign another similar deal with a 5th year option to the one they signed in 2010? Why would a player turn down the opportunity to guarantee themselves $100m?

Also, as far as players taking discounts, that's exactly what the Spurs players have done and everyone thinks they're great teammates for doing it. Lebron is cashing out $30m on this Beats by Dre deal with Apple. You think he really needs the difference in salary he'll give up to accommodate playing with his closest friends and putting the best team possible on the court? What's the sacrifice in quality of life these guys give up by taking $15m per year versus $20m per year? And how much are the saving every year by playing in a state with no state income tax?

Basketball is a team sport. If these guys want to make these sort of sacrifices to play together, why wouldn't we applaud that? We do it with the Spurs.

If New Orleans continues to become the city I hope it's becoming, I'd be thrilled if 2 or 3 superstars wanted to sacrifice their personal income and singular stats and recognition to join Anthony Davis in competing for a championship in one of the most vibrant cities in America.

Why not?

...and on this MJ thing. He had a lot of help. Bird had a lot of help. Magic had a lot of help. It's a little hypocritical to not view those teams as "super" teams in the same way we view the Heat, when they also featured multiple hall of fame players. Hell, Rodman won two titles and was a defensive player of the year before joining the Bulls. But for some reason we think Michael did it all on his own! As if Scottie Pippen isn't in the conversation for top 5 Small Forward of all time... That was definitely a SUPER team.

[BallSoHard]

Here we go...

[da ThRONe]

Why any player with a market would opt into a contract is beyond me...

Guaranteed money is the only money that matters. Why would Melo (or Lebron, Wade, Bosh, etc) opt into the last year of their deals, when they can sign another similar deal with a 5th year option to the one they signed in 2010? Why would a player turn down the opportunity to guarantee themselves $100m?

Also, as far as players taking discounts, that's exactly what the Spurs players have done and everyone thinks they're great teammates for doing it. Lebron is cashing out $30m on this Beats by Dre deal with Apple. You think he really needs the difference in salary he'll give up to accommodate playing with his closest friends and putting the best team possible on the court? What's the sacrifice in quality of life these guys give up by taking $15m per year versus $20m per year? And how much are the saving every year by playing in a state with no state income tax?

Basketball is a team sport. If these guys want to make these sort of sacrifices to play together, why wouldn't we applaud that? We do it with the Spurs.

If New Orleans continues to become the city I hope it's becoming, I'd be thrilled if 2 or 3 superstars wanted to sacrifice their personal income and singular stats and recognition to join Anthony Davis in competing for a championship in one of the most vibrant cities in America.

Why not?

...and on this MJ thing. He had a lot of help. Bird had a lot of help. Magic had a lot of help. It's a little hypocritical to not view those teams as "super" teams in the same way we view the Heat, when they also featured multiple hall of fame players. Hell, Rodman won two titles and was a defensive player of the year before joining the Bulls. But for some reason we think Michael did it all on his own! As if Scottie Pippen isn't in the conversation for top 5 Small Forward of all time... That was definitely a SUPER team.

I agree with the thing about the past greats. IMO James is right there on Jordan's heel. I don't see how MJ is that far and away from LBJ.

As far as them leaving money behind you are talking nearly 10M's per season for Anthony to leave on the table for this table to join the Heat. Over 5 years if there's some type of S&T or he just stays in NYC that's nearly 50M's. That's a lot of money under any situation. This is logically his last time in FA where he'll command this type of money.

[Kurgan]

...and on this MJ thing. He had a lot of help. Bird had a lot of help. Magic had a lot of help. It's a little hypocritical to not view those teams as "super" teams in the same way we view the Heat, when they also featured multiple hall of fame players. Hell, Rodman won two titles and was a defensive player of the year before joining the Bulls. But for some reason we think Michael did it all on his own! As if Scottie Pippen isn't in the conversation for top 5 Small Forward of all time... That was definitely a SUPER team.

Hm...you must have lived on another planet i suppose. No one is saying (or if they are, they're stupid, simple as that) that mj did it on his own. They're saying he didn't team up on purpose with two other "superstars" to build a team because he couldn't win anything on his own. He didn't call magic and bird, or olajuwon and barkley, to build a team to win titles. That's the point and why many hate lebron and the heat.

And no i'm not among them. I'd rather see the heat win a title than the spurs, i greatly dislike the spurs. And i still think lbj is not on mj's level. I don't really want to go into it but even if he won another 2 nba titles, he won't be there, and that's just in my opinion. Anybody else can think whatever they want thank goodness.

[UNO Gracias]

I made a Superstar comment and I stand by it. The rules today favor the teams with Superstars more than those Bulls, Pistons, Lakers, or Celtics title teams. It's true. Back then you could have an enforcer take the star player out of the game, now you can't. Now if anyone as much as breathes on a star player its a foul. I understand marketability, and people like the game more now than they did then, but it is much easier to win a title now than it was back then due to the amount of star power a team has.

[All Metro]

If I'm Mello I take the man route and say straight up this isn't an option and I will not piggyback Miami's success.

[N.O.Bronco]

I made a Superstar comment and I stand by it. The rules today favor the teams with Superstars more than those Bulls, Pistons, Lakers, or Celtics title teams. It's true. Back then you could have an enforcer take the star player out of the game, now you can't. Now if anyone as much as breathes on a star player its a foul. I understand marketability, and people like the game more now than they did then, but it is much easier to win a title now than it was back then due to the amount of star power a team has.

I think the nature of the game has always favored superstars.

The difference between now and then is the rules. Hand-checking, zone D, 3-second rule, and various rules to protect the ball handler. It transferred the balance of power away from front court players and toward back court players IMO. It was the Jordan fallout. The league wanted more Jordan's and so they sought out rules that nourished that.

[UNO Gracias]

And with rules that nourished that you made it easier for Superstar teams to win titles.

If LBJ was coming down the aisle on Lambier or Oakley he would have gone down hard. Bill and Charles would break their arm trying to stop that locomotive, but they wouldn't have allowed for the titles to come so easy.

[N.O.Bronco]

And with rules that nourished that you made it easier for Superstar teams to win titles.

If LBJ was coming down the aisle on Lambier or Oakley he would have gone down hard. Bill and Charles would break their arm trying to stop that locomotive, but they wouldn't have allowed for the titles to come so easy.

I agree guys like James would probably struggle in the 80's NBA. Of course assuming he still had that same freakish size and speed he would be a top tier player. But with players allowed to hand-check and thus sense his next moves and big men able to camp in the paint, James method of offense wouldn't be nearly as effective. Though his speed, size and strength could come in handy defensively back then.

[BallSoHard]

I agree guys like James would probably struggle in the 80's NBA. Of course assuming he still had that same freakish size and speed he would be a top tier player. But with players allowed to hand-check and thus sense his next moves and big men able to camp in the paint, James method of offense wouldn't be nearly as effective. Though his speed, size and strength could come in handy defensively back then.

I tend to disagree lebron would struggle. I think he'd adapt. He's the most physically gifted player to ever enter the NBA. I don't physicality would be an issue because I'm pretty sure he'd get the mind to lay the wood on some other players on the defensive end.

[UNO Gracias]

Lebron wouldn't be the Lebron we know now. Heck LBJ isn't as good as MJ, and even MJ needed time to adapt, and for those teams to get old and the techniques incorporated by those teams to be removed before he started his nation of domination. LBJ is stronger, faster, etc., etc. than MJ, but he would have struggled then, like MJ did, and with that struggle would come fewer titles.
JMHO

[UptownFuz504]

Guys like LBJ would be just as effective in the 80/90's as they are today. The physicality of the game is something that can be adjusted to. Also, that physicality goes both ways. Could you imagine the impact from an LBJ vs Mahorn crash in the lane? The defender would suffer just as much in that interaction. On the defensive end, LBJ would be an even better defender if he could hand check or use his hands in the post. The players that would be affected by the physicality would be the 1 and dones because they wouldn't be physically ready for that style of play. For that matter, I don't think 98.6% of them are ready for today's NBA.

[UNO Gracias]

Guys like LBJ would be just as effective in the 80/90's as they are today. The physicality of the game is something that can be adjusted to. Also, that physicality goes both ways. Could you imagine the impact from an LBJ vs Mahorn crash in the lane? The defender would suffer just as much in that interaction. On the defensive end, LBJ would be an even better defender if he could hand check or use his hands in the post. The players that would be affected by the physicality would be the 1 and dones because they wouldn't be physically ready for that style of play. For that matter, I don't think 98.6% of them are ready for today's NBA.

If LBJ was coming down the aisle on Lambier or Oakley he would have gone down hard. Bill and Charles would break their arm trying to stop that locomotive, but they wouldn't have allowed for the titles to come so easy.

LBJ's physicality isn't lost on me. What I am saying though is that the Superstar fouls wouldn't be as prevalent, and for somebody who shoots 8ft's a game, and causes the opponents match-up problems do to foul trouble, his game would be different. Suddenly you'r Kawhi Leonards aren't on the bench with 4 fouls in the first 18 min of the game.

[rt0307]

For all those that are wondering how they can afford it... click the link and watch the video. They said that the "Big 3" would all have to take SIGNIFICANT pay cuts. I mean all of them would have to agree to like 7 mill/year contracts, but the dude said the players may be willing to do it in order to extend their championship window.

and LeBron may be willing to since... according to ESPN Sportscenter this evening... he made a cool $300 million on the Beats by Dre sale to Apple... he had part ownership in return for his continued sponsorship of it

[Pelicantoo]

Pathetic and a joke at best. I just get so tired of ppl who weren't old enough to truly watch Jordan think lebron is even close to his level. Lebron is a great player don't get me wrong. If you watched Jordan tho. You know what I'm talking about. 2 totally different players with 2 totally diff skill sets. Jordan's skill was light years better than lebrons tho. Lebron just uses his size and trucks thru ppl. There's not much finesse at all to his game. His first step is average at best. His dribble game is average at best As well. Closest thing I've seen to Jordan in my day was A primed Kobe. Killer mentality and all. It's just a really hard thing to break down and describe how much different they truly were (lebron,mj)
It's like this. When I watched Jordan I was wowed and floored at watching him almost every dam game he played in. I mean it was amazing. It truly was. Lebron? Ehhhh not so much. I mean his physical brute strength and size combined with his athleticism is pretty amazing but his overall game just doesn't have that WOW factor to it for me.

I Agree with you to an extent. He's not Jordan or Kobe, he's actually a lot like Magic, with worse handles and passing and better strength and scoring ability. Jordan never disappeared in games, he was a thrill and a threat every second he was on the court. Also one of the purest jump shots I've ever seen. No one will ever compare (He also dominated in the hand check era, which made it twice as hard to score IMO).

[Pelicantoo]

And with rules that nourished that you made it easier for Superstar teams to win titles.

If LBJ was coming down the aisle on Lambier or Oakley he would have gone down hard. Bill and Charles would break their arm trying to stop that locomotive, but they wouldn't have allowed for the titles to come so easy.

This is precisely why LBJ is not MJ. Go and watch the Bad Boys documentary. Watch what the Pistons did to the Bulls in those first few years before the first 3-peat. If Kawaii Leonard could have his arm on Lebron the entire time and push him off balance every time he moves, Lebron loses 10-15 points a game I think (granted, lebron would play different). Can't compare stats across eras folks, Lebron is no Jordan, He's in the conversation for surpassing Larry Bird.

[BallSoHard]

This is precisely why LBJ is not MJ. Go and watch the Bad Boys documentary. Watch what the Pistons did to the Bulls in those first few years before the first 3-peat. If Kawaii Leonard could have his arm on Lebron the entire time and push him off balance every time he moves, Lebron loses 10-15 points a game I think (granted, lebron would play different). Can't compare stats across eras folks, Lebron is no Jordan, He's in the conversation for surpassing Larry Bird.

Wait, comparisons to Jordan are off limits because they're across eras, but Bird is fine ? Interesting

[UptownFuz504]

To all the haters saying that LBJ should not have paired up with other stars answer me this. If we take Kobe, MJ, Bird (1 of my fav players ever), or Magic and put them in Cleveland, how many championships would the Cavs have today? I say that they would have same amount as they do now. Zero. All of those guys played with HOFers. Name the HOFers from the LBJ Cavs. I'll wait.

Fwiw, LBJ is better than Bird. I don't even think that it's debatable and Larry Legend was my favorite player in the 80's

[Eman5805]

People keep saying that no one ever won alone save a few special cases. But I think the biggest issue is that not only did LeBron leave, he left a small market team to play for a much bigger one. One with a fanbase that doesn't really care. They just wanna see a winning team and could careless otherwise.

And yes, Bird, Magic, etc, they didn't do it alone, true. They also didn't do it by becoming bestest buddies in the whole wide world just cuz they played on the Dream Team and flocking to play with each other. It's less the practical reasons and more of the emotional ones. Some feel like it's a cheap, weak way to go about it.

And more than anything...The Decision. Some never have and never will let that go.

[Pelicantoo]

Wait, comparisons to Jordan are off limits because they're across eras, but Bird is fine ? Interesting

Can't compare stats across eras folks, Lebron is no Jordan, He's in the conversation for surpassing Larry Bird.

The argument for him being compared to Jordan is a stats based argument.

[DefensiveMind]

Can't compare stats across eras folks, Lebron is no Jordan, He's in the conversation for surpassing Larry Bird.

The argument for him being compared to Jordan is a stats based argument.

Please qualify your statements. You believe its a stats based argument. FIFY.

[Pelicantoo]

To all the haters saying that LBJ should not have paired up with other stars answer me this. If we take Kobe, MJ, Bird (1 of my fav players ever), or Magic and put them in Cleveland, how many championships would the Cavs have today? I say that they would have same amount as they do now. Zero. All of those guys played with HOFers. Name the HOFers from the LBJ Cavs. I'll wait.

Fwiw, LBJ is better than Bird. I don't even think that it's debatable and Larry Legend was my favorite player in the 80's

I think He's better than Bird too, if only for career longevity's sake.

None of them would have won with that Cavs team. But none of them left their teams in their prime either. But, It's not the worst team to ever lose in the finals, ask Allen Iverson. Just like with Iverson, the same awful team that let him down in the playoffs allowed him some moderately inflated stats and some MVP's that may not have been there otherwise. So, in the GOAT conversation, these things balance out.

[Pelicantoo]

Please qualify your statements. You believe its a stats based argument. FIFY.

Okay, so where's the non-stats-based argument then? Please back up your Bull----

[BallSoHard]

Can't compare stats across eras folks, Lebron is no Jordan, He's in the conversation for surpassing Larry Bird.

The argument for him being compared to Jordan is a stats based argument.

What's the argument versus Bird based off of then??

[Pelicantoo]

What's the argument versus Bird based off of then??

Bird's a 3 time champion, 3 time MVP, Best or one of the best in the league for a period of about 7-8 years (with Magic), Career cut short by injuries, average defender.

Lebron's a 2-time NBA champion, 4 time MVP, Best or one of the best in the league for at least 9 years, 5 time all defense 1st team, great 2 way player, 4 straight finals appearances, with possibly 3 championships, potentially one of the longest dominant careers if he stays healthy.

Umm...