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Thread: Pels Off season thread

  1. #1526
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudkh_ View Post
    Realgm reporting bulls will offer Lonzo 4yr 80mil, maybe take this with a grain of salt. However if this is Zo's biggest offer in FA should we match if we whiff on Lowry?

    4yr 80mil would be my absolute limit I would go to re-sign Zo if we miss on any of our other key PG targets.
    I set my ceiling on Lonzo at $18m per year and I'm happy staying there. If he gets $20m a year elsewhere, good for him.
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  2. #1527
    Quote Originally Posted by Drudkh_ View Post
    Realgm reporting bulls will offer Lonzo 4yr 80mil, maybe take this with a grain of salt. However if this is Zo's biggest offer in FA should we match if we whiff on Lowry?

    4yr 80mil would be my absolute limit I would go to re-sign Zo if we miss on any of our other key PG targets.
    I don't understand the fit... Of Colby White, Lavine, and Ball...

  3. #1528
    RIP BDJ AUSSIE_PELICAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhorse985 View Post
    What does that mean? All sign and trades? Who is the backup plan to Lowry? I sure hope it?s not Dinwiddie. I?d rather re-sign Ball or trade for Brogdon if we can?t get Lowry.
    He means that any trades will be added to the Memphis trade.

  4. #1529
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I don't understand the fit... Of Colby White, Lavine, and Ball...
    Ball fits really well with Lavine actually imo. Ball is at his best used as wing, making connective passes that take advantage of scrambled defenses, and harassing wings off-ball on defense.

    Coby White? I mean, he's not very good. Right now, they're clearly trying to be good soon. They cashed in assets on Vucevic, they have LaVine being very good now. They don't want to wait 3 years to find out if Coby White will ever learn to pass on a consistent basis, or sort his shot selection out, or learn how to defend. They want to add pieces of Lavine and Vucevic, I doubt fit with Coby White is top 5 in their priorities.

  5. #1530
    I haven't seen it discussed much but would Cameron Payne be ready to lead a team. He does have a relationship with Willie. We could bring him in through free agency and still do a S&T with Lonzo for additional help.

  6. #1531
    Free Big Panda ragincaucasian's Avatar
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    This is kind of a bad offseason to actually have cap room. The free agent cupboard has nothing but dust bunnies. I mean, it's so bad that more than one team is courting Lonzo freaking Ball?

  7. #1532
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragincaucasian View Post
    This is kind of a bad offseason to actually have cap room. The free agent cupboard has nothing but dust bunnies. I mean, it's so bad that more than one team is courting Lonzo freaking Ball?
    proceed with caution

  8. #1533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Ball fits really well with Lavine actually imo. Ball is at his best used as wing, making connective passes that take advantage of scrambled defenses, and harassing wings off-ball on defense.

    Coby White? I mean, he's not very good. Right now, they're clearly trying to be good soon. They cashed in assets on Vucevic, they have LaVine being very good now. They don't want to wait 3 years to find out if Coby White will ever learn to pass on a consistent basis, or sort his shot selection out, or learn how to defend. They want to add pieces of Lavine and Vucevic, I doubt fit with Coby White is top 5 in their priorities.
    If Lonzo is Chi-Town's first choice, didn't you just make a case for the Pelicans to keep him?

    "They don't want to wait 3 years to find out if Coby White will ever learn to pass on a consistent basis, or sort his shot selection out, or learn how to defend".......dae

    Therefore you believe that Lonzo DOES pass on a consistent basis...Lonzo DOES have a good shot selection....and, Lonzo DOES know how to defend. If, as you suggest, Lonzo can do those things, remind me, why do you want to let him go?
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  9. #1534
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    If Lonzo is Chi-Town's first choice, didn't you just make a case for the Pelicans to keep him?

    "They don't want to wait 3 years to find out if Coby White will ever learn to pass on a consistent basis, or sort his shot selection out, or learn how to defend".......dae

    Therefore you believe that Lonzo DOES pass on a consistent basis...Lonzo DOES have a good shot selection....and, Lonzo DOES know how to defend. If, as you suggest, Lonzo can do those things, remind me, why do you want to let him go?
    One thing that I dont see many discuss is the role. Lonzo likes New Orleans and his teammates, but the money isnt the biggest divide. Lonzo wants to be a POINT GUARD. Griff dont see him that way.
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  10. #1535
    Lonzo is underrated by Pels fans, not by other teams in the league. Same thing with Reddish and others. People here state an opinion and then beat the ever living trash out of that opinion with absurd hyperboles until the point they can never change that opinion no matter how much a player improves.

    That being said, how he views himself does determine if he fits this team or not. His trajectory of improvement since leaving LAL has him on path to be on the level of the smallest 3 of a big 3. His grit and work ethic indicates he can probably get there......but does he understand that's his ceiling, yet, or does he still have ambitions of being a #1 or #2?
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  11. #1536
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    Lonzo is underrated by Pels fans, not by other teams in the league. Same thing with Reddish and others. People here state an opinion and then beat the ever living trash out of that opinion with absurd hyperboles until the point they can never change that opinion now matter how much a player improves.

    That being said, how he views himself does determine if he fits this team or not. His trajectory of improvement since leaving LAL has him on path to be on the level of the smallest 3 of a big 3. His grit and work ethic indicates he can probably get there......but does he understand that's his ceiling, yet, or does he still have ambitions of being a #1 or #2?
    His goal is to be an All Star point guard. He wants to be making the decisions in the half court for a high octane team. He thinks he can be Jason Kidd. And good for him - go ahead and try. But he will fail if that is what he wants to be. And he will get traded during his next contract, then sign for under market value in 2025 and THAT team and its fans will love him. I have said that consistently for years. In his late 20s, once he accepts who he is, he will give his team great value

  12. #1537
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    His goal is to be an All Star point guard. He wants to be making the decisions in the half court for a high octane team. He thinks he can be Jason Kidd. And good for him - go ahead and try. But he will fail if that is what he wants to be. And he will get traded during his next contract, then sign for under market value in 2025 and THAT team and its fans will love him. I have said that consistently for years. In his late 20s, once he accepts who he is, he will give his team great value
    And that's one of the few things I have consistently agreed with you on.

    Lonzo Ball has some skills. He's a very good connective passer. He's a solid off-ball defender. He has learned to become a pretty good shooter from outside. These are the makings of a very competent complimentary piece. If he can understand that and internalise it, and play that role, I think he can be effective. I just don't believe he is there mentally, and I don't think he will be until he's 27 or 28 years old and has bounced around a bit and been shown that he's just not the star lead guard he currently thinks he is. Unfortunately, he's only 23 and I don't want to pay him for the next 4 or 5 years hoping that he'll figure that out. So if he figures it out, it will be elsewhere.

  13. #1538
    Quote Originally Posted by ragincaucasian View Post
    This is kind of a bad offseason to actually have cap room. The free agent cupboard has nothing but dust bunnies. I mean, it's so bad that more than one team is courting Lonzo freaking Ball?
    Kind of interesting what Bobby Portis ends up getting... He definitely cashing out this off season.

  14. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    One thing that I dont see many discuss is the role. Lonzo likes New Orleans and his teammates, but the money isnt the biggest divide. Lonzo wants to be a POINT GUARD. Griff dont see him that way.
    I agree, Mac. My point is why let him just walk if he truly is a $ 20MM value and has those skills (in his eyes)?

  15. #1540
    Quote Originally Posted by As I See It View Post
    I agree, Mac. My point is why let him just walk if he truly is a $ 20MM value and has those skills (in his eyes)?
    The plan isnt to let him walk. Its to add guys into this Memphis trade and then sign and trade Lonzo for something of value. I will be disappointed if they use cap space and then just let Lonzo and Hart walk.

  16. #1541
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    The plan isnt to let him walk. Its to add guys into this Memphis trade and then sign and trade Lonzo for something of value. I will be disappointed if they use cap space and then just let Lonzo and Hart walk.
    As would I.

  17. #1542
    Say we strike out on Lowry. He goes to Miami or Philly
    Lonzo doesn't get his $20 million.
    Brogdon is on the table for a couple of protected 1st
    You try to get at least one FA

    What's the plan?

  18. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    The plan isnt to let him walk. Its to add guys into this Memphis trade and then sign and trade Lonzo for something of value. I will be disappointed if they use cap space and then just let Lonzo and Hart walk.
    You think Hart is gone?

  19. #1544
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Say we strike out on Lowry. He goes to Miami or Philly
    Lonzo doesn't get his $20 million.
    Brogdon is on the table for a couple of protected 1st
    You try to get at least one FA

    What's the plan?
    I think this is the biggest misconception amongst fans. There isnt "a plan" -- in that they are gonna try this, and then that, and then that.

    Its gonna be value and opportunity based. And you cant really plan for that because 29 other teams are dictating the market, not to mention the whims of the players themselves. Griff isnt just doing Plan A, and then seeing if Lowry goes elsewhere and moving on to Plan B. Its all being thrown out at the same time and the value and other people who make the decisions will dictate what he goes with and what he doesnt.

    Hope that makes sense.

  20. #1545
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Say we strike out on Lowry. He goes to Miami or Philly
    Lonzo doesn't get his $20 million.
    Brogdon is on the table for a couple of protected 1st
    You try to get at least one FA

    What's the plan?
    Imo, in that scenario, re-sign Lonzo and go after a 6th man shooter and stretch 4 in FA (Evan Fournier and Olynyk).
    Last edited by Darkhorse985; 07-31-2021 at 08:16 PM.

  21. #1546
    Quote Originally Posted by AUSSIE_PELICAN View Post
    You think Hart is gone?
    Again, it depends on the market and the offers. I know people dont like to hear that and it is easier to imagine Griff has a concrete - yes I want Hart back or No I dont - but thats not how he is working. It will come down to so many other dominoes and other teams offers etc.

    That said, my money would be on he is signed and traded elsewhere

  22. #1547
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I think this is the biggest misconception amongst fans. There isnt "a plan" -- in that they are gonna try this, and then that, and then that.

    Its gonna be value and opportunity based. And you cant really plan for that because 29 other teams are dictating the market, not to mention the whims of the players themselves. Griff isnt just doing Plan A, and then seeing if Lowry goes elsewhere and moving on to Plan B. Its all being thrown out at the same time and the value and other people who make the decisions will dictate what he goes with and what he doesnt.

    Hope that makes sense.
    I was more implying "What’s your course of action under these circumstances"

    I wasn't referring to a plan or the organization.. Just you personally and for anyone else that wants to discuss.

  23. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    One thing that I dont see many discuss is the role. Lonzo likes New Orleans and his teammates, but the money isnt the biggest divide. Lonzo wants to be a POINT GUARD. Griff dont see him that way.

    Griff see him as a shooting guard? Am I the only one confused by this ?

  24. #1549
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicans47 View Post
    Griff see him as a shooting guard? Am I the only one confused by this ?
    David Griffin sees Lonzo as a 3&D wing. Which is what he is most effective at, at least at this point in his career.

    It's not that helpful a lot of the time to try and give people secure ''positions''. It's more helpful to think of players as guards, wings, and bigs more generally I find - Lonzo is a wing, not a guard, by this estimation.

    In the broadest sense, guards (point guards, traditionally) bear a creation burden. They are shot creators. Lonzo is not that. Lonzo is mostly useful for his utility: he's not Kyle Korver but he can shoot well enough, he's not a shot creator but he can pass well, he's not a lockdown guy but he's fine enough off-ball on D. He fits a lot of roles but none of those roles involve being a primary ball handler, shot creator, on-ball threat, which are traditionally guard based activities.

  25. #1550
    Yep. Agreed, Dae. I have a more optimistic outlook than you about how high those skills you listed will end up being but I don't see Zo ever being an all-star PG. I can see him being a low end Eastern all-star for his utility purposes at SG or SF. If he would embrace that, I think it would fit so perfectly with BI, Zion, Kira, NAW, and others.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    His goal is to be an All Star point guard. He wants to be making the decisions in the half court for a high octane team. He thinks he can be Jason Kidd. And good for him - go ahead and try. But he will fail if that is what he wants to be. And he will get traded during his next contract, then sign for under market value in 2025 and THAT team and its fans will love him. I have said that consistently for years. In his late 20s, once he accepts who he is, he will give his team great value
    Yeah. I see that, too. He also has Clutch in his ear. I don't necessarily think they are telling him anti-NOLA rhetoric but I absolutely think they are telling him he can be that all-star PG and that he can be that #1 or #2 and to chase that money. I'm very high on Ball and his trajectory but if I had to make a prediction, I don't think he's ready to accept a more off-the-ball role behind Zion and BI.
    Last edited by msusousaphone; 07-31-2021 at 09:13 PM.

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