Pels Off season thread

obviously Lauri is going to be unplayable some games, but he does add another dimension if he's going to take a short deal that doesnt come with much opportunity cost.

if Myers Leonard can look good on a team with dominant inside scorers so can Lauri.

Cant blame the Bulls for asking for a first but they'd be lucky to get anything more than a TPE

The NBA has reportedly opened investigations into possible tampering violations involving both the Kyle Lowry and Lonzo Ball sign-and-trade deals.

Lowry was sent to Miami in exchange for Precious Achiuwa and Goran Dragic in a sign-and-trade move at the start of free agency, and the heat guaranteed Dragic's team option worth $19.4 million on Sunday, which allowed them to use him in the sign-and-trade.

Ball's deal sent him to Chicago in exchange for Tomas Satoransky and Garrett Temple, but according to sources of Adrian Wojnarowski, that trade may look slightly different in it's final form after the league's investigation. Until the league completes their investigation, none of these deals can be finalized.

ESPN

Is it yesterday again already?

Lauri is only 24. He played injured while he was 22 and played on a team that he had a frayed relationship with while he was 23. There's some very high potential there. I wouldn't mind a short term prove it deal.

Just no overpays.

I only posted yesterdays news because of the quote that had Woj saying the trade would probably change.

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Originally Posted by redrum

I only posted yesterdays news because of the quote that had Woj saying the trade would probably change.

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Yep. I saw and appreciated that.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Just no overpays.

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For real.

Its not secret I'm not hugely optimistic about Lauri, but hey, maybe he does just need a change of scenery - it's rare, but sometimes that happens. Players just need to be somewhere new sometimes.

If you can get him on the cheap and not give up assets, I can understand the attraction at least on paper: tall big, can shoot, good FT guy, is at least vaguely mobile.

It's when the price starts going up that my alarm bells go off.

If the the freaking Lakers get Buddy

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-trade-pursuit

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Genuine curiousity - but why do most of you guys want to keep adding average to slightly above average players who will just steal playing time from the young guys? Like, its already going to be hard to get Naji, Murphy, Didi, and Jones minutes - and stuff like that will make it impossible. Not to mention take away a few from Kira and NAW too.

Lets just play the young dudes and if they are awesome, we happily give up that pick to Charlotte. If not, we keep it and have learned about who our young guys are. Isnt that the FAR better path?

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Would Lauri take time away from those guys?

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

Are we winning now or tanking? It doesn?t look like we are tanking, so playing Naji, Didi, and Jones significant minutes won?t win games. It would be nice to have depth and a decent bench. Young guys will eventually get minutes due to injury. Satoransky and Temple won?t be hard to unseat if these young guys are any good.

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Yeahhhhh... Somebody really over estimate our ability to be healthy. Just because we are healthy one season out of 15 doesn't mean you can never get enough bodies.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

If the the freaking Lakers get Buddy

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-trade-pursuit

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They can’t be more heavy favorites. All this does is change a potential margin of victory. A committed Westbrook on the same team as LeBron and AD? That alone is enough to almost guarantee another title.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

They can’t be more heavy favorites. All this does is change a potential margin of victory. A committed Westbrook on the same team as LeBron and AD? That alone is enough to almost guarantee another title.

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I'd actually argue that the Westbrook might lower the ceiling of an AD/Lebron team.

He's a guy who can't really play off-ball in the half-court, plays defense about one game in ten, can't shoot, has woeful shot selection, etc.

While having him as an on-ball option when Lebron sits definitely elevates their non-Lebron minutes, I feel like he might actually reduce the efficacy of Lebron-led minutes.

Obviously depends on how Vogel staggers them and the lineups he uses, and whether Lebron can commit to being off-ball at times (unlikely, and probably undesirable tbh) but I feel like it's a very boom or bust strategy. Either the Lakers will cruise to a championship or they'll implode by January.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

Would Lauri take time away from those guys?

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I was wondering the same. Hell Lauri and jax can be the 2nd team bigs. Both can finish lobs on PnR and Lauri can stretch the floor to give Kyra room to run PnR with Jax. The 2nd team can be a problem.

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Originally Posted by DroopyDawg

I was wondering the same. Hell Lauri and jax can be the 2nd team bigs. Both can finish lobs on PnR and Lauri can stretch the floor to give Kyra room to run PnR with Jax. The 2nd team can be a problem.

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Yeah, I can see Buddy taking away time from those guys, but not Lauri. Actually, I think Lauri would fill a bench need.

I think lauri would be a great addition to the team and he has a ton of upside. Sometimes players just need to be placed in the right system.

We should take a swing at Lauri for two reasons if we can sign him to a favorable contract. Why?

1. We are only assured of Val for only one year. Now hopefully, JAX will be ready by next year, but that's far from guaranteed.
2. What do we do if Zion and his clan start singing the, "I Wanna Play in a Big Market Blues". We have absolutely nothing in the bullpen right now that we can rely on.

Markkanen has talent; that's beyond reproach. The question is will be be satisfied being the first 'Big' off the bench.

Lastly for those concerned about his defense. He'll fit in nicely on this team defensively; nobody plays it worth a damn.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

I'd actually argue that the Westbrook might lower the ceiling of an AD/Lebron team.

He's a guy who can't really play off-ball in the half-court, plays defense about one game in ten, can't shoot, has woeful shot selection, etc.

While having him as an on-ball option when Lebron sits definitely elevates their non-Lebron minutes, I feel like he might actually reduce the efficacy of Lebron-led minutes.

Obviously depends on how Vogel staggers them and the lineups he uses, and whether Lebron can commit to being off-ball at times (unlikely, and probably undesirable tbh) but I feel like it's a very boom or bust strategy. Either the Lakers will cruise to a championship or they'll implode by January.

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I think that's more dependent on on LeBron and AD being healthy than any implications that Westbrook may bring to the table. We know Westbrook is a very inefficient player, but he should flourish in LA if they can be healthy.

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Originally Posted by Pels4Life

I think lauri would be a great addition to the team and he has a ton of upside. Sometimes players just need to be placed in the right system.

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With Willie and our development staff, I would have little issues in getting him. He can't be worse than a lot of the guys we brought into to back up PF.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

I think that's more dependent on on LeBron and AD being healthy than any implications that Westbrook may bring to the table. We know Westbrook is a very inefficient player, but he should flourish in LA if they can be healthy.

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Not really, I think the fit between Lebron and Westbrook is really rough. It could work, I can imagine scenarios where it would, but I can also imagine a bunch of scenarios where Westbrook gets asked to spot up while Lebron runs a PnR and that honestly sounds gross to watch.

Lol. I don't get this Lauri thing b/c couldn't you just add him to the Lonzo trade? Or they have to wait until the investigation is over? Is he just a last resort b/c why wasn't he just added before?

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Lol. I don't get this Lauri thing b/c couldn't you just add him to the Lonzo trade? Or they have to wait until the investigation is over? Is he just a last resort b/c why wasn't he just added before?

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I think there could be a way to add him to the trade. It would entail taking Temple out and using part of the MLE for him. We likely would add Gabriel as well. It would all then likely depend on what Markkanen signs for (his 1st year money).

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

I think there could be a way to add him to the trade. It would entail taking Temple out and using part of the MLE for him. We likely would add Gabriel as well. It would all then likely depend on what Markkanen signs for (his 1st year money).

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But why not just do all of this before plus wouldn't Temple get pissed didn't we sign him to an extension?

I hope we add Lauri if the price is right. A 24 year old big man who shoots 40% from 3 is something we can use. He can come off the bench and some offensive stability to our young bench players. He has his flaws but we don't need him to be a top 3 player for us.

Yeah plus if we do get Lauri and keep Hart. It would be Lauri, Hart, Kira, Jaxson and Naji coming off the bench. Not bad at all imo. A ten man rotation plus we still have Trey, Herb, Didi, Sato and Willie. Willie Green would have alot of options. I like it.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

But why not just do all of this before plus wouldn't Temple get pissed didn't we sign him to an extension?

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You would still be signing him to his contract, just under the MLE rather than the trade. Means nothing to him.

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Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN

You would still be signing him to his contract, just under the MLE rather than the trade. Means nothing to him.

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Oh, gotcha.

I still dont understand why you guys wanna add players like Lauri and Buddy to take away 30 minutes from younger guys. Guarantee those people will change their tune after 2 or 3 Summer League games.

Keep the flexibility, keep opportunities open for young guys, and see what types of trades are available in December and January after knowing more about your young guys. Why bury them again?

https://www.reddit.com/r/NOLAPelican...this_gotta_be/


bruuhhhhhhh. lol

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I still dont understand why you guys wanna add players like Lauri and Buddy to take away 30 minutes from younger guys. Guarantee those people will change their tune after 2 or 3 Summer League games.

Keep the flexibility, keep opportunities open for young guys, and see what types of trades are available in December and January after knowing more about your young guys. Why bury them again?

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Yeah, I don't think we need both guys. One maybe but both is too much. I don't think having Lauri hurts Naw, Kira, Jaxson and Naji playing time. We may not see much of Trey, Herb and Didi tho. Again, Willie Green has great options and can get creative w/ match-ups. I honestly think he'll be better than SVG was w/ minutes and rotations.

Plus w/ this team it's good to have solid backups. Injury/health wise.

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Originally Posted by Taker597

https://www.reddit.com/r/NOLAPelican...this_gotta_be/


bruuhhhhhhh. lol

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That’s sexy talk right there.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I still dont understand why you guys wanna add players like Lauri and Buddy to take away 30 minutes from younger guys. Guarantee those people will change their tune after 2 or 3 Summer League games.

Keep the flexibility, keep opportunities open for young guys, and see what types of trades are available in December and January after knowing more about your young guys. Why bury them again?

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I don't want Hield. If I'm ok with not re-signing Lonzo at 4/85, I don't see why I'd want Hield at 3/60. A bit better 3 point shooting, a bit worse defense. And I think he is who he is going to be at this point as well.

I don't care for Lauri either unless he's willing to take a Jason Smith type of role and a cheapish, short term deal. Unlikely he'd go for that.

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Originally Posted by PELSGIRL

Yeah, I don't think we need both guys. One maybe but both is too much. I don't think having Lauri hurts Naw, Kira, Jaxson and Naji playing time. We may not see much of Trey, Herb and Didi tho. Again, Willie Green has great options and can get creative w/ match-ups. I honestly think he'll be better than SVG was w/ minutes and rotations.

Plus w/ this team it's good to have solid backups. Injury/health wise.

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I dont want one. Go ahead and put one on the team and then allocate the 240 minutes and watch how many guys that we all should want to get playing time wont play.

I would love to embrace the youth. Be apart of these potential big trades with Simmons or others and get some more young talent. It’s more about getting talent in case our big name guys want to leave.

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Originally Posted by bradael

I don't want Hield. If I'm ok with not re-signing Lonzo at 4/85, I don't see why I'd want Hield at 3/60. A bit better 3 point shooting, a bit worse defense. And I think he is who he is going to be at this point as well.

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Not to rag on you too much here but describing the difference between Hield and Lonzo as ''a bit better 3 point shooting, a bit worse defense'' is extremely funny.

He's either overestimating Buddy's defense or overestimating Lonzo's shot. Perhaps both.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I dont want one. Go ahead and put one on the team and then allocate the 240 minutes and watch how many guys that we all should want to get playing time wont play.

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This was said before in regards to Markkanen......but when did 24 become old?

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

This was said before in regards to Markkanen......but when did 24 become old?

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When you haven't improved or changed your game in 4+ years. Old before your time. Decided to just skip the ''growing and expanding your game'' portion of life and just become 29 early.

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Originally Posted by Eman5805

He's either overestimating Buddy's defense or overestimating Lonzo's shot. Perhaps both.

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Definitely both, among other things.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

When you haven't improved or changed your game in 4+ years. Old before your time. Decided to just skip the ''growing and expanding your game'' portion of life and just become 29 early.

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From reading some Bulls beat writers, the consensus from them seemed that he had a rough start two years ago due to injuries but then started to show signs of progression and growth the last half of that season. Last season was a regression but they said the relationship deteriorated pretty much when the season began.

All stuff we said before. Markkanen would be competing with Gabriel, Didi, Jones, and Naji for minutes. Now, I like some of these guys. I definitely wouldn't bet my pay check any of them will turn into a 6th to 8th rotational man on a contending team. I would even make the argument that Markkanen may have the best chance of being able to be that guy. With Buddy I get not wanting to take minutes away from NAW, Kira, and Graham....with Lauri I don't see the argument.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

When you haven't improved or changed your game in 4+ years. Old before your time. Decided to just skip the ''growing and expanding your game'' portion of life and just become 29 early.

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Brandon Ingram, as I recall, was pronounced DOA by you at age 22 as I recall. So I guess I see your point about Markkanen.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

From reading some Bulls beat writers, the consensus from them seemed that he had a rough start two years ago due to injuries but then started to show signs of progression and growth the last half of that season. Last season was a regression but they said the relationship deteriorated pretty much when the season began.

All stuff we said before. Markkanen would be competing with Gabriel, Didi, Jones, and Naji for minutes. Now, I like some of these guys. I definitely wouldn't bet my pay check any of them will turn into a 6th to 8th rotational man on a contending team. I would even make the argument that Markkanen may have the best chance of being able to be that guy. With Buddy I get not wanting to take minutes away from NAW, Kira, and Graham....with Lauri I don't see the argument.

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Your logic makes sense if you think that he's a better shot of living up to his talent than Gabriel, Didi, Jones, Naji, etc - I just personally don'y think that's likely. Someone like Naji, for example, who has already shown consistent improvement as well as a fundamental understanding of how to play the game with effort and high feel has a higher likelihood of turning out to be a productive and useful player than Markkanen does, who has not shown a fundamental understanding of how to play and who has notably poor feel.

Now, does that mean I think Naji is going to be a star? No, not at all, but when you're talking about your 7th or 8th man they need to be able to show that they can impact the game without needing the ball, needing to monopolise shots, or be having a hot night. Why? Cause your 8th man doesn't get 12 or 13 shots every single night. If they were good enough scorers to warrant that, they wouldn't be your 8th man. Lauri thus far has not shown this ability: if his shot is off, he's giving you absolutely nothing. At least with Naji I know if his shot is off he can defend or rebound or even pass at a reasonable level for a tertiary creator. And Naji is younger than Markkanen, so if we're going by who is on a better development arc, I know who I'm prioritising.

Secondly, how many minutes do you have to spare. Honestly, try it: you have 240 minutes in a game to spread out. You know Zion and Ingram should be getting around 33-35 minutes a night, so that's 70 gone. Now we want NAW to get 25 minutes a night, and Graham to get 27-30 minutes a night, and Kira to get his 15. Jonas is going to get his 25-30, Jax wants 15-20 as well. So we're up to what, 190 minutes gone. 50 minutes a game left. Say you want to give 15-20 to Murphy as well as a FRP from this year, okay, so 210.

You now have 30 minutes a night left to distribute between Jones, Naji, Didi, Sato, Temple, Hernangomez, and Lauri. Which guys are just not playing, for you? Some are easy choices, like Temple - we're not going to play him, fine. But are we really just going to decide that Naji, Sato, Didi, and Jones are all going to ride the pine every night when some of them play arguable positions of need and provide defense (the thing most people on the board believe we need most) just so we can find out if Finnish Kristaps can figure things out? Especially when he's older than most of them?

And I've just typed that out before realising that we may also have Hart back to try and provide minutes for.

So who's missing out?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

And I've just typed that out before realising that we may also have Hart back to try and provide minutes for.

So who's missing out?

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I would also say NAW will get more than 25. I would bet he is 3rd on the team in minutes and closer to 30-32

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

I would also say NAW will get more than 25. I would bet he is 3rd on the team in minutes and closer to 30-32

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Could very easily happen, I was trying to be fairly conservative. Also not out of possibility that Zion and Ingram end up averaging more than 35 minutes a night - though, in fairness, not by much. But it's not unusual for an all-star to average 36, 37 minutes a night. Is anyone really going to be shocked if Ingram ends up averaging 36:30 a game?

If Markkanen comes in on a $12 million dollar or less a year deal for 3 to 4 years, he is worth it merely as a stretch 4. We have money and need depth. Markkanen should be an easily tradable player on a deal like that. We are not tanking and still don’t have a true 6th man at this point. Markkanen could be a Ryan Anderson 6th man clone.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If Markkanen comes in on a $12 million dollar or less a year deal for 3 to 4 years, he is worth it merely as a stretch 4. We have money and need depth. Markkanen should be an easily tradable player on a deal like that. We are not tanking and still don’t have a true 6th man at this point. Markkanen could be a Ryan Anderson 6th man clone.

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Ryan don't compare to Lauri. Even if we try to be nice and compare post neck injury Ryan. They are just two different players from different eras.

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Originally Posted by Darkhorse985

If Markkanen comes in on a $12 million dollar or less a year deal for 3 to 4 years, he is worth it merely as a stretch 4. We have money and need depth. Markkanen should be an easily tradable player on a deal like that. We are not tanking and still don’t have a true 6th man at this point. Markkanen could be a Ryan Anderson 6th man clone.

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We don't need depth, is the thing. We easily have a ten man rotation which covers every ''position'' with at least two guys and arguably another few guys who can play/need time to develop on top of that.

Guards: NAW/Sato/Kira/Graham
Wings: Didi/Murphy/Ingram/Hart/Naji/Jones
Bigs: Jonas/Zion/Jax/Hernangomez

That's 14 names right there that you either can just pencil in for minutes, or that you could argue are in the same ''can they do it'' slot as Lauri. That's your roster.

You can easily say

PG: Graham/Kira
SG: NAW/Murphy/Didi
SF: Ingram/Hart/
PF: Zion/Naji/Jones
C: Jonas/Jax/Hernangomez

That's a full rotation including with developmental slots filled for guys like Didi and Jones to hoover up loose minutes at the end of games or in garbage time, or specific matchup guys like Hernangomez. Who gets kicked off for Lauri?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

PF: Zion/Naji/Jones

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What the hell Naji doing there... What's we think Jones is doing off the bench? He's clearly versatile. So, I bite, but he's still a rookie. I hope he get treated better than NAW, Hayes, and Kira in their rookie years. I'm pretty hopeful with Murphy.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

We don't need depth, is the thing. We easily have a ten man rotation which covers every ''position'' with at least two guys and arguably another few guys who can play/need time to develop on top of that.

Guards: NAW/Sato/Kira/Graham
Wings: Didi/Murphy/Ingram/Hart/Naji/Jones
Bigs: Jonas/Zion/Jax/Hernangomez

That's 14 names right there that you either can just pencil in for minutes, or that you could argue are in the same ''can they do it'' slot as Lauri. That's your roster.

You can easily say

PG: Graham/Kira
SG: NAW/Murphy/Didi
SF: Ingram/Hart/
PF: Zion/Naji/Jones
C: Jonas/Jax/Hernangomez

That's a full rotation including with developmental slots filled for guys like Didi and Jones to hoover up loose minutes at the end of games or in garbage time, or specific matchup guys like Hernangomez. Who gets kicked off for Lauri?

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You forgot Temple