The Full Range of Possibilities at SF

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Originally Posted by LouisianaPride

Don't they have an overload at that position right now?

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Yeah, but they also just drafted two guards in back to back years. Don't need Rivers

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Originally Posted by TBlaze

Preach. Exactly my thoughts.

Now we're here just wishing we'd have moved him last year when teams actually were intrigued. But seeing him play terribly two straight years and lobbing layups aimlessly off the backboard takes its toll.

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were we watching the same Austin rivers last year? How many times did people point out how improved he was. His minutes dropped from his rookie season yet he raised his fg% taking around the same number of shots. He raised his assist per game. not to mention his abysmal free throw % shot up and his 3 point % also raised.

It may still not have been perfect but it wasn't terrible. At least bad.

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Originally Posted by djpaul89

And to the point of "Rivers has no value around the league," that's clearly true and can't be debated (cgrand). But a player's perceived value =\= his abilities. For instance, Morrow had very low league-wide value last off season. Clearly he proved that his abilities exceeded his league perception.

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and if rivers does that nobody will be happier than I will

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So yeah, I think the argument that since Rivers has little value across the league, that proves that he does and forever will suck is extremely weak.

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Since I never made that argument I'll assume you are addressing others

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Originally Posted by cgrand

and if rivers does that nobody will be happier than I will



Since I never made that argument I'll assume you are addressing others

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Correct, sir.

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

Threw that one in there just for you. Don't think it is possible, but I wanted you in this thread!

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Why you gotta be so Harkless. . . .


Man I been sitting on that one all day waiting on guru. Lol

What about Jared Dudley?
This trade is doable :
Rivers , Ajinca and Babbitt
For
Jared Dudley.
He is better than all the sfs on the list.
He is a good shooter, seems to be a nice locker room guy, can play team defense.

Marion should be a realistic option now since Mavs gave Parsons.

if he wants to be here. He did say something about only playing a contender a while back

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

The way I see it, Dell will have quite a few options to fill this spot, even though we just assume that the guy will be signed with the Room Exception. Maybe he will, but maybe they sign Jameer Nelson with the Room and trade Rivers for a SF. Or maybe they are sold on Patric Young and can move Withey or Ajinca for a cheap SF. To me, these are all the options

Trade Rivers Possibilities

DeMarre Carroll
Mike Dunleavy
Jae Crowder
Mo Harkless

Trade a Big Possibilities

Khris Middleton
Kyle Singler
Jeff Taylor
Quincy Miller
Glen Rice, Jr.
James Ennis

Room Exception

Richard Jefferson
Francisco Garcia
Omri Casspi
James Jones
Alan Anderson
John Salmons
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Jordan Hamilton
Wesley Johnson
Shawn Marion
Caron Butler



Minimum Guys

Darius Miller
Brandon Rush
Chris Singleton
Jan Vesely
Josh Howard

So, who are your top 3-5 on that list? Would you be willing to do a trade or do you just want to use the Room and solve this problem next year?

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Casspi doesn't change the players I'd go after here.
I'd be interested in these in the following order:

Marion
Butler
Harkless
Middleton
Jefferson
Garcia
Quincy Miller
Hamilton

and I'd add Rush as a lottery ticket on minimum if possible.

THAT is what I was talking about w/ Dell. I expected him to pull off something more in line with this move. Casspi isn't a world beater by any means, but getting a shooter who can steal minutes at the 3 and not kill us is a big boost to the roster. Again, wasn't disappointed in the fact we weren't going to get a true difference maker, just that we were limiting ourselves. We need skill sets at this point, not difference makers.

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Originally Posted by dleboeuf84

THAT is what I was talking about w/ Dell. I expected him to pull off something more in line with this move. Casspi isn't a world beater by any means, but getting a shooter who can steal minutes at the 3 and not kill us is a big boost to the roster. Again, wasn't disappointed in the fact we weren't going to get a true difference maker, just that we were limiting ourselves. We need skill sets at this point, not difference makers.

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So, Casspi flips you on this whole trade? Not Asik alone. That had you worried. But now you get Casspi and Dell is back to being a great dealer?

I guess we just see things so incredibly differently

I trust that Dell will wait for one of those guys for the right price. It's just the waiting game now! We already got a nice back-up 3, and we just have to wait for the starter.

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Originally Posted by Topdawg26

I trust that Dell will wait for one of those guys for the right price. It's just the waiting game now! We already got a nice back-up 3, and we just have to wait for the starter.

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We can't offer a guaranteed playoff spot, just a good chance at one. But what team can offer a chance at a playoff spot AND a starting position?

I think we can get someone decent, and I agree, I hope we don't just settle for the first guy who says yes.

Id love Brandon Rush. Shoot I wish we'd re-sign Miller

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Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara

So, Casspi flips you on this whole trade? Not Asik alone. That had you worried. But now you get Casspi and Dell is back to being a great dealer?

I guess we just see things so incredibly differently

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Look, if the options were getting Asik and losing all exceptions and bird rights vs. our exceptions and bird rights with no Asik, obviously I would take Asik. I just expected more. I mean, DeJuan Blair just got signed and traded! With teams clamoring for stretch 4's, i can't imagine Smith not being able to be S&T'd.

As far as Casspi flipping me on this trade, actually it does help. It gets us another shooter. Possibly spares us Babbit. Allows us to use the Biannual for someone who can defend. Gets us another skill set. Our core is set. We need guys w/ specific skill sets - shooters, wing defenders, etc. That being said, I would much rather us have Morrow back than Casspi. He's better than nothing though.

You have to admit this is a better deal than just trading Asik into cap space. It helps fill out the roster w/ real NBA players. No player we acquired was going to break our top 6 unless we dealt Gordon anyway.

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Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar

Marion should be a realistic option now since Mavs gave Parsons.

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Even moreso now that the Mavs just signed Richard Jefferson, but the question more than anything would be could he help with spacing enough to allow the offense to flow? That I'm not too sure of.

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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In what world?

I am hoping for Marion but I think he is outside our price range.

Other guys I would not mind considering what we have to offer:

1)Jordan Hamilton
2)Chris Douglas-Roberts
3)Wesley Johnson

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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Absolutely false in almost every basketball sense.

Y'all sleeping on rivers, typically last year he woulda been a junior in college, he's young, like I said I won't judge him until his 4th year in the NBA, he came in as a project so he deserves time, Think he is going to be a beast and I can see him being a 15-5-5 SG who plays lockdown D and has a great 3 ball

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Y'all sleeping on rivers, typically last year he woulda been a junior in college, he's young, like I said I won't judge him until his 4th year in the NBA, he came in as a project so he deserves time, Think he is going to be a beast and I can see him being a 15-5-5 SG who plays lockdown D and has a great 3 ball

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Stand by your 18-5-5 guru!

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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very very very very very much disagree.
Very much.

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

Y'all sleeping on rivers, typically last year he woulda been a junior in college, he's young, like I said I won't judge him until his 4th year in the NBA, he came in as a project so he deserves time, Think he is going to be a beast and I can see him being a 15-5-5 SG who plays lockdown D and has a great 3 ball

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I'm with you guru. I've been a fan of rivers and have seen big improvements in his game. He's still very raw and even his 4th year might be premature to judge his game completely. He may take 3-4 more years to get there, but I believe he is on his way. His skill set screams NBA. I don't predict those gaudy numbers tho. I can see him being a 20-25 mpg off the bench 6-7th rotation type player. Avg sumn around 10/3/2.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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I watch almost every game and am constantly looking for what anyone sees in Aminu. He was just as responsible for our record last year as injuries and the Stiemer. You can not have a player on the floor who is NO offensive threat. We all have our own opinions, but me, I would take just about anyone over him. And no, he is not a good defender.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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Wow

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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Wow

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Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans

Stand by your 18-5-5 guru!

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sure, in his prime, i can see 18-5-5

18 minutes 5 points on 5 shots

:hihi:

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

sure, in his prime, i can see 18-5-5

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I'm with you brother. I actually see more.

I'm happy that we're holding onto rivers, I'm actually hoping that he can fill a role similar to what morrow did for us last season. he gives the D and his spot up 3s have been good, though the corner 3 would be of the most help.

Don't know if he's ever going to be strong enough but I've thought about him at the 3 for spot minutes and the potential he could have there in a 3 guard lineup.

When I was throwing marion in there, couple of days ago nobody thought there would be a chance! but IF he would agree to come to nola! I mean think about it! he is such a great player overall! incredible veteran with championship experience, can still defend his position, has a nose for the ball, great locker room presence, even though his shot is ugly, you have to repect it and he doesnt have a high usage rate which is a plus with all the scoreres out there! plus hes an great rebounder for his position and if we keep casspi as a backup thats a great fit because of his shooting of the bench! so IF dell can make his magic happen again and we end up with the matrix I would be super excited! If healthy this team would play for the homecourt advantage in the west without a doubt in my mind!

I swear I've had this conversation before. Let's lay down money that Rivers won't average 18-5-5. Not per36. He just won't ever average 5 rebounds a game ever. It won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

I swear I've had this conversation before. Let's lay down money that Rivers won't average 18-5-5. Not per36. He just won't ever average 5 rebounds a game ever. It won't happen.

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It's a terrible bet for me because he could suffer a serious injury, get into a car accident, fall of a cliff, or go to a team where he is behind an all-star and never get the minutes, I have no doubt though if he was to start on a team in need of him he could very well average 15-5-5 in a year or 2. just my opinion.

Personally i think he'll never have enough playing time to put up those numbers. I mean, cornerstone gordon had 15 ppg playing 32 minutes a game...how can rivers put up so many points without having as much playing time? And as long as we have reke and jrue here i don't see him getting consistently 30 minutes at all. And if he does, well, we'd be neck-deep in trouble

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Originally Posted by HornetGuru

It's a terrible bet for me because he could suffer a serious injury, get into a car accident, fall of a cliff, or go to a team where he is behind an all-star and never get the minutes, I have no doubt though if he was to start on a team in need of him he could very well average 15-5-5 in a year or 2. just my opinion.

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Again. I'm saying EVER. He will never ever average the numbers you suggested because he will never average 5 rebounds a game. The 18 points I could see happening, the 5 assists I could see happening. But he will never average 5 rebounds a game. This won't change ever.

This doesn't mean he's a bad player, it means don't put unrealistic expectations on the player.

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Originally Posted by Mythrol

Again. I'm saying EVER. He will never ever average the numbers you suggested because he will never average 5 rebounds a game. The 18 points I could see happening, the 5 assists I could see happening. But he will never average 5 rebounds a game. This won't change ever.

This doesn't mean he's a bad player, it means don't put unrealistic expectations on the player.

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I personally think that at the end of tyreke's contract since he will be 28, will lose some of his quickness because he is a bigger guy and won't be resigned, I see us resigning Jrue, having Rivers as our starting SG and putting a very good SF and either PF or C next to Davis when Davis is in his prime. The cool thing about AD is he is only 21, we will basically have enough time to build 2 cores around him. Right now it is jrue, tyreke, ryno and asik, in a couple years it could be jrue, lamarcus aldridge, rivers and kawhi leonard for all we know. People take less money to play with great players :)

Marion would be a nice pickup if he would be willing to come here. Otherwise, not much left. I guess you have Johnson or Hamilton. I doubt Turner would take the room exception.

Im sure this has been covered but Im trying to get an organized understanding of what are options are at this point.

From what I understand, we have the Room Exception left which is worth $2.7M per year for two years and Minimum Contract Exceptions.

With that the available guys left are Jordan Hamilton, Francisco Garcia, Brandon Rush, Wesley Johnson, Chris Douglas-Roberts, John Salmons, Shawn Marion left at SF.

We could also trade Rivers, Withey, Ajinca, and/or Babbitt to take back a contract for a SF and spend our RE on a backup veteran guard like Jameer Nelson.

Rivers and Babbitt would work for Jared Dudley or Rivers for Dunleavy works.

Before seeing, a few of the SL games I would have said go and get a player on a "Prove It" contract. Like grab some young buck that has not done much in the league and wants to fight for a starting spot, or grab a vet who has been down but can easily bounce back if in the right position. Now that we have Casspi and seeing the progress of our SL players, I would hold off on spending money at the SF position right now. While none of the options, we have rights to are world-beaters we are only talking about your fourth option on offense, and a person who can keep a hand in front of somebody on defense. We don't need LeBron or even Paul George to make the playoffs and make noise. Go into the season with your three-headed monster of Casspi, Howard, and Southerland, and rotate the starter based on matchup. What is the worst that can happen, they let a LeBron or Melo go off for 30+? Save the cash and use what is left for more Ely contracts, and more Babbitt and Ajinca type signings.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Before seeing, a few of the SL games I would have said go and get a player on a "Prove It" contract. Like grab some young buck that has not done much in the league and wants to fight for a starting spot, or grab a vet who has been down but can easily bounce back if in the right position. Now that we have Casspi and seeing the progress of our SL players, I would hold off on spending money at the SF position right now. While none of the options, we have rights to are world-beaters we are only talking about your fourth option on offense, and a person who can keep a hand in front of somebody on defense. We don't need LeBron or even Paul George to make the playoffs and make noise. Go into the season with your three-headed monster of Casspi, Howard, and Southerland, and rotate the starter based on matchup. What is the worst that can happen, they let a LeBron or Melo go off for 30+? Save the cash and use what is left for more Ely contracts, and more Babbitt and Ajinca type signings.

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The Ely, Babbitt and Ajinca type signings were all league minimum deals, so they will be there regardless. If we can get a decent veteran for the RE, it would be crazy not to use it. However, there are very few options available currently. It may make sense to take a run at someone like Marion and if it does not work out, save it to see if any players become available as a result of a buyout or a foreign guy looking for more than the minimum.

Yes, they will be there regardless, but the guys on the market (who are available to us) are essentially League Minimum guys. At this point in his career Marion would be a signing that would only come for a multi year deal. Do you really want to tie your cart to that horse? Go and sign your your league min guys, or just wait out the year and come trade season get involved in a deal or two since you have the space to help make a small time move possible.

anthony morrow was a league minimum signing last year
he had one foot out of the league and the other one on the line

lets just wait and see what happens

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Originally Posted by cgrand

anthony morrow was a league minimum signing last year
he had one foot out of the league and the other one on the line

lets just wait and see what happens

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While the competition isn't Lebron, and Leonard, I think we are seeing it unfold in SL with Southerland and Howard. A few years later with Howard, and maybe too soon to expect big things out of Southerland, but the belief that we need to go out and spend our MLE on a guy who may or may not help us any more than the options presented is silly. You can sit on your money if you don't like the options presented, it's not going to kill you.

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

Yes, they will be there regardless, but the guys on the market (who are available to us) are essentially League Minimum guys. At this point in his career Marion would be a signing that would only come for a multi year deal. Do you really want to tie your cart to that horse? Go and sign your your league min guys, or just wait out the year and come trade season get involved in a deal or two since you have the space to help make a small time move possible.

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The most Marion could be would be 2 years at small dollars. I doubt he ends up taking the RE unless it is a contender, but he is one worth using the RE on.

Well Caron butler is going to the pistons

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Originally Posted by UNO Gracias

While the competition isn't Lebron, and Leonard, I think we are seeing it unfold in SL with Southerland and Howard. A few years later with Howard, and maybe too soon to expect big things out of Southerland, but the belief that we need to go out and spend our MLE on a guy who may or may not help us any more than the options presented is silly. You can sit on your money if you don't like the options presented, it's not going to kill you.

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i would love for josh howard to be useful, but unfortunately i think he's done. we'll see
we dont have the MLE by the way, just the room exception

i think darius miller is your starting SF next year

I'm about youth. Build a player with potential like the spurs and pacers. I don't want a player on His last leg give me youth with potential. Plus he'd have no big expectations. Which to me is why people sometimes hate on Rivers.

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

unless a trade happens. Im the only guy wanting Aminu. Sorry. Aminu > Marion

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http://culdesacked.files.wordpress.c...ack_pipe-1.jpg

I like Rivers. Would like him more if he were a small forward.

If you can find me the SF equivalent of Rivers sitting on someone's bench waiting for an opportunity... I'm interested in a trade.

I'm just not sure who that guy is. Is it Mo Harkless?