2024 Offseason Thread

We need more offense not more defense Kessler can be found for cheaper John collins suck go get Drummond call it a day want more money let cj off the books he’s not worth the money more than Brandon’s not worth it 26 years old compared to 33 34 easy choice

If one is moved I think the deciding factor will be cj you ready for a bench role or Brandon are you willing to take less than the max after underperforming which one do y’all think is more likely ?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Would love to do something with Utah if they're interested.

Walker Kessler + John Collins for salary, plus some picks, for BI would be the main idea.

Walker Kessler is a cheap C who protects the rim well, but who is apparently kind of on the outs in Utah - I've seen claims there's some tension there.

John Collins is a good backup PF whose reputation is kind of on a low, I'd love to buy cheap on him and see if we can maximise him - he'd be needed to make up the salary. Has shown skills as a secondary shot blocker and is a decent 3pt shooter for a big too.

If we could re-coup the 2 FRPs we just lost, that would be great and help keep flexibility for future moves too.

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I could go along with that. I think ideally we pickup a starting Center and flex backup for the 4 and 5 spots, plus picks, depending on the players.

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

We need more offense not more defense Kessler can be found for cheaper John collins suck go get Drummond call it a day want more money let cj off the books he’s not worth the money more than Brandon’s not worth it 26 years old compared to 33 34 easy choice

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I can work out what you're saying but it would be a lot easier if you used punctuation.

We need more offense, that's true, but that doesn't necessarily need to come from the C position - besides, that trade involves getting John Collins back who is a good player who has shown he's capable of putting up 20/10 in the past including acting as a stretch big. It's true he hasn't averaged that in a few years now (he was 15/8 last season) but he's still only 26 and buying low on people who you believe in is how you get success stories. I think he has more in him than he's been able to show for a while.

CJ is older than BI, this is true, but he's also much cheaper and his contract is shorter. The new BI extension is going to keep him locked up in 2029, whoever gives him it, and is going to cost likely around $50m a year. The fit with him and DJM is also atrocious. Shopping CJ is still an option, but that would be shopping him as well as BI, rather than instead, imo.

Jonas was good on offense but we just couldn't commit to making him a focus because Z, BI, and CJ are offensive minded. After adding Murray I just don't see the Pelicans wanting an offensive threat at center. We need someone who is a great rebounder, rim protector, and can move his feet better than Jonas.

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Originally Posted by joe87

I could go along with that. I think ideally we pickup a starting Center and flex backup for the 4 and 5 spots, plus picks, depending on the players.

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Exactly, and that trade does that. You move CJ to the bench and go into the season with DJM/Trey/Herb/Zion/Kessler as your starting 5, so you have more shooting. CJ's coming off the bench (maybe he gets moved later in the year, if a deal comes up) Hawk, Matt Ryan, Reeves, Collins on the bench, all shooters for their position. Alvarado and Missi not really shooting threats but energy players who can run against backups and defend in certain lineups.

Plus we'd be recouping picks, which means if we need to send some out with CJ to get the right deal, we'd have them without having to eat into our own picks.

Why would you trade cj after Ingram ??? Just curious I would think the Ingram trade would be one to make this team a complete one ?

Who’s to say with Brandon’s best friend Murray and his other best friend Jose being here and him liking it here isn’t enough incentive to take a friendly deal to compete

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Who’s to say with Brandon’s best friend Murray and his other best friend Jose being here and him liking it here isn’t enough incentive to take a friendly deal to compete

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Who's the person in your life that you're friends enough with to forfeit $10m to work with?

Time to cash in on Ingram

If I’m making 30 40 like my area feel comfortable with my surroundings I can think of a few you know people do turn down more money depending on the situation right ?

Good pick up on Murray. Even Bobby Marks hinted this two days ago when y’all were drooling for Trae.

Pelicans current roster without any moves has 10 players guaranteed. Note, Antonio Reeves has not signed anything yet that would guarantee a spot. Certainly can lead to interesting constructions moving forward in terms of trade.

— Shamit Dua (@FearTheBrown) June 29, 2024

We don't have enough people signed to contracts to meet the league minimum right now, we only have about $3m left, and we still have no starting C.

Apparently we sent EJ Liddell to ATL too. So that means we sent out 3 players and got back 1.

So we can take an imbalanced trade coming back (that is, more than one player for Ingram as long as their total cost isn't much higher than his).

That's a good spot to be in, makes things more flexible.

Well certainly not named Ingram

https://hoopshype.com/2024/06/28/zio...rockets-radar/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-rockets-radar

Houston is stalking Zion

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

If I’m making 30 40 like my area feel comfortable with my surroundings I can think of a few you know people do turn down more money depending on the situation right ?

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I'm being real with you here, I do not have any friends that I would turn down $10-$15m dollars just to work with - and if they're real friends, they'd want you to get your bag.

BI is watching Immanuel Quickley get $35m a year and OG Anunoby get $42m a year. The idea that he's going to take $40m or so is a joke - his max contract could offer him as much as $61m in its final year and we're talking like he's going to leave that much cash on the table just to stay playing with Jose Alvarado?

If he did that, his agent should be fed into a woodchipper.

Brace yourselves for anything, lads. I highly doubt Zion goes and BI is who I would bet money on but we need a big. It would not surprise me to see Herb or Trey get moved for one. Griff recently said that Gayle has no limit put on their spending, insinuating that they have just been waiting for the right opportunity to go all in and push into the luxury tax.

Also brave yourself because this board is about to get crowded.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Well certainly not named Ingram

https://hoopshype.com/2024/06/28/zio...rockets-radar/

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-rockets-radar

Houston is stalking Zion

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Let's not do the pointless clickbait, shall we?

Both of those links point back to the same article by Sam Amick, where Amick says:

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So who are the Rockets interested in as franchise centerpiece material? League sources say that Cleveland's Donovan Mitchell (who is 27 and is widely expected to sign an extension with the Cavs soon), the Suns' Devin Booker (also 27) and New Orleans' Zion Williamson (23) would all fit the bill. The only problem, of course, is that none of them are expected to be available any time soon.

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The original source for the ''Zion to Houston'' smoke is an article where Amick says that that's not going to happen :hihi:

Can we please stop the clickbait. Houston has been linked to everyone from Kevin Durant to Zion to Mitchell this off-season. It's clear they're making calls everywhere but nobody is interested in doing business.

Jesus if this happens

https://fadeawayworld.net/houston-ro...novan-mitchell

https://fadeawayworld.net/.image/c_l...-mitchell.webp

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Brace yourselves for anything, lads. I highly doubt Zion goes and BI is who I would bet money on but we need a big. It would not surprise me to see Herb or Trey get moved for one. Griff recently said that Gayle has no limit put on their spending, insinuating that they have just been waiting for the right opportunity to go all in and push into the luxury tax.

Also brave yourself because this board is about to get crowded.

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Griff said that Gayle has put no limit on them and then the very next sentence said that they ''can't'' be an apron team.

So that means there is a limit on them.

Ofcourse you wouldn’t have you ever had even a million dollars lol let’s be fr. Your pocket watching not everyone lives that way do you remember Lebrons big 3 someone took less money plenty of players have
Carmelo didn’t he also never became a champion just saying , he could do a 2/3 year extension play above that and cash in later /increase his value from the bad season he just had sometimes you have to think further than the now he’s 26 with all star level pay he could get atleast two more big contracts it’s okay you want him gone I rather cj gone we will see what direction the team goes in

Jake is taking his time getting a Locked on Pels vid up! I'm too excited to have to listen to awful debate YouTube vids. :(

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Originally Posted by Algiersraised

Ofcourse you wouldn’t have you ever had even a million dollars lol let’s be fr. Your pocket watching not everyone lives that way do you remember Lebrons big 3 someone took less money plenty of players have
Carmelo didn’t he also never became a champion just saying , he could do a 2/3 year extension play above that and cash in later /increase his value from the bad season he just had sometimes you have to think further than the now he’s 26 with all star level pay he could get atleast two more big contracts it’s okay you want him gone I rather cj gone we will see what direction the team goes in

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Look, there's no need to resort to name-calling. You can't say I'm pocket-watching because I don't think someone's going to take a pay-cut at the same time when you're sat there hoping that he will because of how much he's made in the past. We're both talking about how much money another person is going to accept or not, get off the high horse.

This is a very Dell Demps type deal.

The only reason I can think of to make this is the first domino is that they want it to have some kind of effect on extension talks because it’s impossible to pay both Trey and Ingram now unless CJ for expirings is in the works.

I also don’t really like Murray the player. If Willie can get defensive buy in then it could work, but he was a net negative in ATL. To me this was an uncreative and somewhat desperate trade but I’ll hold my breath for the completed picture.

I didn’t call you out your name pocket watching is an action and by pointing out what other people are making comparisons to another is pocket watching lol I never brought up any numbers I just said he could take a team friendly deal that’s not pocket watching I didn’t intend to hit a nerve I apologize

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Originally Posted by Pelifan

This is a very Dell Demps type deal.

The only reason I can think of to make this is the first domino is that they want it to have some kind of effect on extension talks because it’s impossible to pay both Trey and Ingram now unless CJ for expirings is in the works.

I also don’t really like Murray the player. If Willie can get defensive buy in then it could work, but he was a net negative in ATL. To me this was an uncreative and somewhat desperate trade but I’ll hold my breath for the completed picture.

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I agree that Murray needs to buy in defensively, though I do think betting on WG to get defense out of someone is a much better assumption than trying to get him to bring offense out of someone.

It has to be the first domino. There's no way that this is the only move - as mentioned by myself and others, we are less than $3m away from the luxury tax with no Center on the roster other than Missi. We have never been a luxury tax team and probably never will be - at least until we prove we're a real contender.

So there must be another move in the works. What it is, is hard to know. A BI move seems the most obvious but who knows, honestly?

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

Let's not do the pointless clickbait, shall we?

Both of those links point back to the same article by Sam Amick, where Amick says:



The original source for the ''Zion to Houston'' smoke is an article where Amick says that that's not going to happen :hihi:

Can we please stop the clickbait. Houston has been linked to everyone from Kevin Durant to Zion to Mitchell this off-season. It's clear they're making calls everywhere but nobody is interested in doing business.

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Waiting for Griff. to call this B.S.

Despite the recent focus around 35-year-old Kevin Durant, league sources say the Rockets are only interested in star players whose timelines fit better with their young core.

Zion Williamson and Devin Booker are among the players who fit the bill...https://t.co/W2S0Ffxi6i pic.twitter.com/zHjCnRX0qJ

— The Athletic NBA (@TheAthleticNBA) June 28, 2024

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Snip

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That is the same Amick article I just mentioned that explicitly says none of those players are available. You're posting smoke and the smoke you're posting explicitly says there isn't any fire.

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Originally Posted by Pelicanidae

That is the same Amick article I just mentioned that explicitly says none of those players are available. You're posting smoke and the smoke you're posting explicitly says there isn't any fire.

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I do agree Amick is as credible as you can get these days

Flashback to last season.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-sold-on-star

Which stretch 5's are even available for B.I.?

NOLA ��
#504

— Dejounte Murray (@DejounteMurray) June 29, 2024

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Originally Posted by ragincaucasian

Which stretch 5's are even available for B.I.?

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Maybe Brook Lopez but otherwise basically nobody.

The 5s who took at least 200 3s this season and hit at least 36% of them are are (according to NBA.com):

- Lauri Markkanen (40% on 438 attempts)
- Naz Reid (41.6% on 406 attempts)
- Brook Lopez (36.6% on 404)
- Chet Holmgren (37.2% on 347)
- Karl Anthony Towns (41.7% on 326)
- Kristaps Porzingis (37.8% on 291)
- Al Horford (41.9% on 258)
- John Collins (37.1% on 232)
- Nikola Jokic (37.2% on 223)
- Dean Wade (39.1% on 202)

That's it. Of those, how many of them would be available for BI? Brook Lopez, John Collins, Dean Wade, maybe.

Of those 3, are any of them over 20%DREB guys? Yes, John Collins. That's it.

I will never be able to see Lauri Markkanen's name a not feel a tinge of regret we didn't nab him in the Lonzo deal instead of the trash we got.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

I will never be able to see Lauri Markkanen's name a not feel a tinge of regret we didn't nab him in the Lonzo deal instead of the trash we got.

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https://c.tenor.com/yq4Qxw8XaE4AAAAM...don-ingram.gif

I think we should keep Ingram now. The Murray trade makes us much better. Ingram has a break out season pay him and send the others packing.

Cj to the bucks make it happen somehow

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

I think we should keep Ingram now. The Murray trade makes us much better. Ingram has a break out season pay him and send the others packing.

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The reverse is true. The fit is so bad with both BI and Dejounte starting (and they would both start, let's be real for a second there) that we now must trade BI. Keeping him would be a horror-show for our spacing and our offense in general.

Acquiring Dejounte only exacerbates the need to move BI and the requirement for Trey to start.

Seen a few people saying that we're probably waiting on whatever happens with PG13 before final decisions get made on BI. Makes some sense; been a lot of interest in both PG13 and BI from a few teams (Philly being the obvious candidate) in the reports recently, and obviously Paul George is the bigger name so it makes sense that he's the domino who has to fall before whatever happens with BI is finalised - whether that's him being moved or extended.

Makes sense.

And I would be remiss if I didn't again point out that, like all NOLA moves, no local writers had any clue what the Pelicans were up to before this trade went down. National news had the scoop on Atlanta wanting to move Murray and Young. No one saw it happening for Nance, Dyson, EJ, and picks. There are no Pelicans Insiders. Don't let elitists tell you otherwise.

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Originally Posted by msusousaphone

Makes sense.

And I would be remiss if I didn't again point out that, like all NOLA moves, no local writers had any clue what the Pelicans were up to before this trade went down. National news had the scoop on Atlanta wanting to move Murray and Young. No one saw it happening for Nance, Dyson, EJ, and picks. There are no Pelicans Insiders. Don't let elitists tell you otherwise.

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Bobby Marks hinted on draft day. Saying he was better fit than Trae. Never mentioned team but you get the feeling he spoke to Grif.

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Originally Posted by 13 - 3

Bobby Marks hinted on draft day. Saying he was better fit than Trae. Never mentioned team but you get the feeling he spoke to Grif.

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Well Bobby Marks was wrong because the fit is hideous unless there are more big moves made. The Trae fit is much much cleaner.

Here's his DARKO D-DPM chart over the seasons compared to the best point guard defenders of the last 5+ years.

Where Murray falls on this scale as a Pelican is basically everything; it determines the entire value of the trade. pic.twitter.com/xeHS4mFukr

— NOLA Analytics (@NolaAnalytics) June 29, 2024

This is what I mean by DJM not being a good defender for a while, by the way. He was excellent in San Antonio, hasn't bothered since being in Atlanta. Clear negative for the last few years.

Now, I've also agreed that the regression could be largely just a consequence of playing in Atlanta. Nobody seems to be playing particularly good defense in Atlanta, and it makes you suspect systematic issues. Meanwhile, Willie Green's entire selling point is that he gets defensive buy-in. If there's anyone who might be able to pull defense back from Murray, it's WG. So there's reason to be optimistic there.

Will he get back to that 2018 peak? Probably not, to be honest, but if he can just get back to like, 2021 levels, that would be a huge improvement from the last few years and would make a significant difference to his upside on the Pels.

That still doesn't address the issues of offensive fit, but that's out of DJM's hands imo. That all depends on what happens with BI. The defensive fit has some upside.

he wont be much of a rim protector... but i think Deandre Ayton is going to be a Pel

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...d=BingNewsSerp

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Originally Posted by fullcourtpress

he wont be much of a rim protector... but i think Deandre Ayton is going to be a Pel

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba...d=BingNewsSerp

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our offence will be damn good.

Myles turner would be a great fit here. He can protect the paint on D and stretch the floor on offense. I would think we could get it done by trading Ingram.

Murray
CJ
Herb
Z
Turner

That's a starting 5 that actually makes sense on paper.

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Myles turner would be a great fit here. He can protect the paint on D and stretch the floor on offense. I would think we could get it done by trading Ingram.

Murray
CJ
Herb
Z
Turner

That's a starting 5 that actually makes sense on paper.

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I totally agree, but he was awesome in last year's playoff; hence, why in the world would they trade him?

ESPN Sources: Nine-time All-Star G Russell Westbrook is picking up his $4 million option and returning to the Los Angeles Clippers. Westbrook averaged 11.1 points, 5 rebounds and 4.5 assists a season ago. pic.twitter.com/p1sIeJy2tk

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 29, 2024

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Originally Posted by hornetsrebirth

Myles turner would be a great fit here. He can protect the paint on D and stretch the floor on offense. I would think we could get it done by trading Ingram.

Murray
CJ
Herb
Z
Turner

That's a starting 5 that actually makes sense on paper.

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Maybe but I don't really know why the Pacers would be moving him. Same with guys like Chet and KAT. Like, yeah they'd fit our plans really well and would help a huge amount, but there's no way they're going to be traded imo.

ESPN Sources: Miami Heat F/C Kevin Love is declining his $4M player option, but both sides are enthusiastic about negotiating a new deal in the opening days of free agency. The five-time All-Star has played the past two seasons with the Heat. pic.twitter.com/uXU3bR8xPP

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 29, 2024