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Thread: Melo to okc

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    Name a single other GM that has lost their biggest star and did what you require of Presti to not be dogged over this period of time?

    Reilly? No. Ainge? No. Kupchak? No. Morey? No. Buford is really the only one but arguably that doesn't even really work since we have yet to see the post big three era play out.

    What I am gathering is you are demanding a level of perfection from Presti to meet your impossible bar that literally no other GM in this period of time has managed to clear. And in comparing the GM's that lost their biggest star(s) over time, Presti has the best record of any of them.

    Like I keep asking, lets name the better GM's over Presti's tenure in the league and start applying the same level of scrutiny you want to give Presti. I think you are going to find it pretty hard to make the case given the sort of bombs you are lobbing at Presti and will have to throw at anyone on your list not named Myers and Buford.
    It's not just about last year. It's about the Harden decision, which HE MADE, and all the years following when he STILL had Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka. So no, I'm not going to answer that because again, you continue to miss the point. It's actually mind numbing at this point.

    The best part of your hypo is a significant reason his "biggest star" left is PRECISELY because of Presti's failures to build a respectable supporting cast.

    And like I CONTINUE to say, I will provide that list later when I have the time to sit down and make an informed list. I think this is what, the third time I've had to say this. Are you ignoring my posts on purpose?

    Maybe caps and bold will work.
    Last edited by PelsFan2313; 09-23-2017 at 09:14 PM.

    "I'm not going to allow my putative owner to answer that question, this is an NBA related press conference. Paul Tagliabue and Roger Goodell have collectively sung their praises of Tom and if uh ESPN has a problem with that tell Mr. Skipper to call me at my office."

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    It's not just about last year. It's about the Harden decision, which HE MADE, and all the years following when he STILL had Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka. So no I'm not going to answer that because again, you continue to miss the point.

    A decision he was forced into due to ownership which you refuse to acknowledge. But want to use the result of that forced choice to hang over his head as a negative despite one of the best W/L records over the period since. Put Presti in GS and that decision is never made. Put him in SA, LA, NY, Houston, Dallas, or any other non-stingy ownership market and the big 4 is still together. And of course you will say, "well the decision was made, and he made the wrong choice" and that is true, but since then he has maintained one of the best teams despite that misstep. Better then all his peers facing similar exoduses of talent.

    EDIT: I see you are saying you haven't really thought out who should be ranked and where. Which makes it a bit odd for you to be going on about how Presti is not elite when you haven't managed to really delve into how his peers have performed over the same period. Or managed to set a baseline of what elite is and see if his peers actually fit it. I think what you are going to find and struggle with, is trying to actually fill out that list without conceding pretty much everyone not named Buford or Myers is subject to knocks as bad or worse then Presti. Which would mean conceding Presti is likely right there in the upper echelon after those two. Which relatively speaking, would put him in the elite class in this league.

    There is not a single GM this decade that has managed to keep his franchise afloat as strongly as Presti has that had to be forced or be subject to losing a core star.

    Since 2010, the Thunder have the second best combined record in the league. Second only to the Spurs. Not the Warriors, not the Cavs, not the Heat, not the Celtics, not the Lakers, not the Rockets, the Thunder. And made the playoffs in all but one season, which was injury plagued.

    I don't think Presti is perfect, and I actually agree that in isolation he has made some bad decisions, but in the larger context of the league and his peers, he is batting right there with the best of them.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 09-23-2017 at 09:33 PM.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    A decision he was forced into due to ownership which you refuse to acknowledge. But want to use the result of that forced choice to hang over his head as a negative despite one of the best W/L records over the period since. Put Presti in GS and that decision is never made. Put him in SA, LA, NY, Houston, Dallas, or any other non-stingy ownership market and the big 4 is still together. And of course you will say, "well it was made" and that is true, but then since then he has maintained one of the best teams since. Better then all his peers facing similar exoduses of talent.

    EDIT: I see you are saying you haven't really thought out who should be ranked and where. Which makes it a bit odd for you to be going on about how Presti is not elite when you haven't managed to really delve into how his peers have performed over the same period. Or managed to set a baseline of what elite is and seen if his peers actually fit it. I think what you are going to find and struggle with, is trying to actually fill out that list without conceding pretty much everyone not named Buford or Myers is subject to knocks as bad or worse then Presti. Which would mean conceding Presti is likely right there in the upper echelon after those two.

    There is not a single GM this decade that has managed to keep his franchise afloat as strongly as Presti has that had to be forced or be subject to losing a core star.

    Since 2010, the Thunder have the second best combined record in the league. Second only to the Spurs. Not the Warriors, not the Cavs, not the Heat, not the Celtics, not the Lakers, not the Rockets, the Thunder. And made the playoffs in all but one season, which was injury plagued.

    I don't think Presti is perfect, and I actually agree that in isolation he has made some bad decisions, but in the larger context of the league and his peers, he is batting right there with the best of them.
    You made my point for me. He made the decision. Does it suck he was forced into it? Sure. But it doesn't diminish the end result and the team's gradual erosion into a first round exit (prior to this offseason).

    In regards to the tiers, you would probably be right about the tier placement IF I were grading GMs on the basis of their overall track records. Presti was an absolute god for drafting the Big 4. I could never take that away. However, if I were grading GMs on the basis of their performance over the aforementioned time period, he would absolutely place much worse. That's where our disconnect continues to lie. You continue to harpen on the entire resume. My critique is much more focused and critical given the envious position he placed himself in as a result of his earlier success and his failure to build and capitalize on it.
    Last edited by PelsFan2313; 09-23-2017 at 09:46 PM.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    You made my point for me. He made the decision. Does it suck he was forced into it? Sure. But it doesn't diminish the end result and the team's gradual erosion into a first round exit (prior to this offseason).

    In regards to the tiers, you would probably be right about the tier placement IF I were grading GMs on the basis of their overall track records. Presti was an absolute god for drafting the Big 4. I could never take that away. However, if I were grading GMs on the basis of their performance over the aforementioned time period, he would absolutely place much worse. That's where our disconnect continues to lie. You continue to harpen on the entire resume. My critique is much more focused and critical given the envious position he placed himself in as a result of his earlier success and his failure to build and capitalize on it.
    Gradual erosion? The Thunder went to the Semi finals and the Western conference finals TWICE since Harden left in 2012. They went more games against the Spurs(6), who were the eventual champions, than the Heat did that year(the Heat only won 1 game). Arguably the Thunder were the second best team that year. Second only to a historically great Spurs team that clobbered that historically great Heat team. Took an all-time great Warriors team to 7 games in 15/16. All that in the brutal Western conference.

    I really do think you need to sit down and work this out and do an honest comparison. Because you continue to put a microscope to Presti while not realizing just how impressive what he has done since being forced into the Harden situation. No other GM has managed to maintain that level of production after losing a star like that in the last 10 years. So it continues to beg the question, if Presti is not elite, then who are the elite GM's ahead of him? Myers and Buford are the obvious ones. Not sure who gets the nod above Presti after that, since 2010. Or even post Harden.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 09-23-2017 at 10:24 PM.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    Gradual erosion? The Thunder went to the Semi finals and the Western conference finals TWICE since Harden left in 2012. They went more games against the Spurs(6), who were the eventual champions, than the Heat did that year(the Heat only won 1 game). Arguably the Thunder were the second best team that year. Second only to a historically great Spurs team that clobbered that historically great Heat team. Took an all-time great Warriors team to 7 games in 15/16. All that in the brutal Western conference.

    I really do think you need to sit down and work this out and do an honest comparison. Because you continue to put a microscope to Presti while not realizing just how impressive what he has done since being forced into the Harden situation. No other GM has managed to maintain that level of production after losing a star like that in the last 10 years. So it continues to beg the question, if Presti is not elite, then who are the elite GM's ahead of him? Myers and Buford are the obvious ones. Not sure who gets the nod above Presti after that, since 2010. Or even post Harden.
    From the Finals to WCF to first round sweep. Yes, a gradual erosion.

    Sure, they took the Warriors to the brink. Because they had KD and Westbrook, which if I'm not mistaken were players already on the team prior to drafting Harden, let alone moving him. You know the roster Kevin Durant left because it was garbage to him outside of Westbrook.

    You were there with me from a comprehensive standpoint, and then you took a step back into the cycle of futility. Are you just going to gloss over my GM comments from the post above? Does it not exist because it fails to fit perfectly into the scope of your hypothetical?

    You ask the same questions over and over and over again like you're expecting a different response. You're not going to get one because you continuously fail to grasp the parameters of the argument. One of us has to remain consistent.

    Aligning team performance with his performance might work for you, but it doesn't for me because it's the product of his prior work. Not the work during the period I continue to talk about.

    But if you want to continue to talk about this via PM, feel welcome. I'm not going to keep belaboring the same point here at the expense of the board's sanity.
    Last edited by PelsFan2313; 09-23-2017 at 11:38 PM.

  6. #56
    REAL men play BASS Contributor MSU-Sousaphone's Avatar
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    Meh. I prefer our lineup. I'll give credit where it's due in that he has made a Frankenstein's monster of a contender from a corpse after KD left......but I do see the hypocrisy in praising him and bashing Dell.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    Gradual erosion? The Thunder went to the Semi finals and the Western conference finals TWICE since Harden left in 2012. They went more games against the Spurs(6), who were the eventual champions, than the Heat did that year(the Heat only won 1 game). Arguably the Thunder were the second best team that year. Second only to a historically great Spurs team that clobbered that historically great Heat team. Took an all-time great Warriors team to 7 games in 15/16. All that in the brutal Western conference.

    I really do think you need to sit down and work this out and do an honest comparison. Because you continue to put a microscope to Presti while not realizing just how impressive what he has done since being forced into the Harden situation. No other GM has managed to maintain that level of production after losing a star like that in the last 10 years. So it continues to beg the question, if Presti is not elite, then who are the elite GM's ahead of him? Myers and Buford are the obvious ones. Not sure who gets the nod above Presti after that, since 2010. Or even post Harden.
    Sometimes logic comes to this board to die if that logic is perceived to be anti-home team. Presti and Demps are nowhere near in the same league as GM's. The only great move on Demps resume' is getting Cousins and that may not even bare the fruit we hope when it's all said and done because of awful timing.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    From the Finals to WCF to first round sweep. Yes, a gradual erosion.

    Sure, they took the Warriors to the brink. Because they had KD and Westbrook, which if I'm not mistaken were players already on the team prior to drafting Harden, let alone moving him. You know the roster Kevin Durant left because it was garbage to him outside of Westbrook.

    You were there with me from a comprehensive standpoint, and then you took a step back into the cycle of futility. Are you just going to gloss over my GM comments from the post above? Does it not exist because it fails to fit perfectly into the scope of your hypothetical?

    You ask the same questions over and over and over again like you're expecting a different response. You're not going to get one because you continuously fail to grasp the parameters of the argument. One of us has to remain consistent.

    Aligning team performance with his performance might work for you, but it doesn't for me because it's the product of his prior work. Not the work during the period I continue to talk about.

    But if you want to continue to talk about this via PM, feel welcome. I'm not going to keep belaboring the same point here at the expense of the board's sanity.
    I ask questions you refuse to answer. Then admit you haven't even gave the time of day to think through. Then come on here and argue to the death an opinion you fully admit you have not actually contemplated fully. Not just with me, but anyone that doesn't toe your line of half baked hot takes about Sam Presti.

    He drafted 4 great players. He kept three of them. His record since 2010 is second best in the league. Since Harden left, an admitted wrong choice(but one he was forced into) he managed to still field a top 3 team in the league over that period. And yet to you that is trash. Simply because he did what any GM in that situation would do and continue to organize around the stars he had. Crazy. Utterly crazy. He didn't do enough, yet he did more then 97% of his peers to maintain competitiveness above them. Still drafted wisely, made smart trades, all of which have led him to now getting Paul George and Melo. But he is trash. Yet we can't name more then two people better then him as GM since Harden left.

    I am not going to PM you because you kinda owe this conversation, all the other people you picked fights with, and anyone following this thread an answer to my question about who are the elite GM's and where do you rank Presti? Over his tenure, this decade, and since Harden? And make the case comprehensively! You want to claim someone with the second best record this decade isn't elite, who managed two conference finals appearances since making a mistake has only been above average, lets quit the dodging and qualify that statement by doing an actual comprehensive comparative analysis that we can all judge.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 09-24-2017 at 06:27 AM.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Sometimes logic comes to this board to die if that logic is perceived to be anti-home team. Presti and Demps are nowhere near in the same league as GM's. The only great move on Demps resume' is getting Cousins and that may not even bare the fruit we hope when it's all said and done because of awful timing.
    There is actually a number of peer reviewed studies that show if a person is asked to take the side of an argument, even if they didn't believe the argument to be true beforehand, that the mere act of defending that argument assigned to them, will increase their acceptance of that arguments validity. And the more they defend it will directly correlate to a rise in their conviction toward that argument.

    Which I think does sometimes explain how people can get so caught up defending someone like Demps and just seemingly ignore arguments more and more as time goes on.
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 09-24-2017 at 06:29 AM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    There is actually a number of peer reviewed studies that show if a person is asked to take the side of an argument, even if they didn't believe the argument to be true beforehand, that the mere act of defending that argument assigned to them, will increase their acceptance of that arguments validity. And the more they defend it will directly correlate to a rise in their conviction toward that argument.

    Which I think does sometimes explain how people can get so caught up defending someone like Demps and just seemingly ignore arguments more and more as time goes on.
    To me it's RC Buford then Presti. Myers IMO is overrated as he walked into his spot with all the pieces already in place. I'd take Ainge over Myers.

  11. #61

    Melo to okc

    Morey should be somewhere on that list too probably.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    He lost Harden due to contract issues, as they were unable to agree on a contract. Obviously in retrospect choosing Harden over Ibaka is the obvious choice, but from the perspective of OKC they already had Westbrook and Durant who were high level offensive players, and Ibaka was coming off a year averaging 3.7blks a game and looked to be a huge defensive centerpiece. Like I said, in retrospect it's obvious who you would pick but at the time there could have been an argument made that Harden wouldn't have been worth the money he was demanding.
    You can't blame Presti for Durant leaving, because Durant had been tampered with all season and was already determined to leave to go play with his buddies in Golden State. I'm convinced that nothing Presti could have done would have changed that.

    With any given GM, you can take certain moves out of context and make them look dreadful. On the whole though, Presti arrived at a Thunder team that won 20 games that year, and took them to perennial title contenders and conference finalists for years. Dell has so far failed at making us a consistent playoffs team at all. So personally yes, I think Presti has earned accolades and Dell has yet to prove himself to be on that level.
    Yeah but not only did he choose Ibaka over Harden, he chose Perkins too! The difference in contracts of what Harden wanted and what Presti wanted to pay was less than $10 million over 4 years. He made a huge mistake trading Harden and it is not justifiable at all.

    It's easy to praise the man who had 3 consecutive top 5 picks and landed Harden, Westbrook, Durant. You act like he stole them in mid round. You can't act like he meant for them to play together because you just said he traded Harden because they were all too ball dominant. So basically he was just selecting best player available and it worked out for him, except for the part where he lost those players. Durant and Harden were bestfriends, closer than Durant and Westbrook fyi. Not to mention all 3 just came off an Olympic Gold medal that summer.

    Edit: Also Presti paid Kevin Martin $1.5M less that season than the annual payment would've been for Harden.
    Last edited by HoustonPelicans; 09-24-2017 at 09:23 AM.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    To me it's RC Buford then Presti. Myers IMO is overrated as he walked into his spot with all the pieces already in place. I'd take Ainge over Myers.
    Thats a fair point.

    I guess I give a lot of credit to Myers because in his position, he was faced with some pretty tough diverging choices on the direction the team should take and basically batted a thousand in the period.

    But you are right, his total body of work for which he now gets credited with was largely built up without his involvement. So I take your point.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    Yeah but not only did he choose Ibaka over Harden, he chose Perkins too! The difference in contracts of what Harden wanted and what Presti wanted to pay was less than $10 million over 4 years. He made a huge mistake trading Harden and it is not justifiable at all.

    It's easy to praise the man who had 3 consecutive top 5 picks and landed Harden, Westbrook, Durant. You act like he stole them in mid round. You can't act like he meant for them to play together because you just said he traded Harden because they were all too ball dominant. So basically he was just selecting best player available and it worked out for him, except for the part where he lost those players. Durant and Harden were bestfriends, closer than Durant and Westbrook fyi. Not to mention all 3 just came off an Olympic Gold medal that summer.

    Edit: Also Presti paid Kevin Martin $1.5M less that season than the annual payment would've been for Harden.
    I think this gets back to the point I have been stressing that while yes, in isolation he made some questionable moves, in the larger context, almost any GM you name is going to have scars like that on his resume. Major choices where the opportunity costs in hindsight make the choice taken seem like an obvious mistake. Even Buford has the "Dark Ages" that fans speak about during the failed Richard Jefferson experiment. But like that era for the Spurs, the organization had done enough, and continued to make other solid moves in lieu of that decision, to remain highly competitive.

    Are we also going to slam Buford for failing with Richard Jefferson and riding on the coattails of earlier success and thus denigrate the Western conference finals appearance and .700 win percentage over that period? Of course not, people are going to call him the GOAT of this era and point to the sustained success as evidence of that. Even though the GOAT himself isn't without those scars.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Sometimes logic comes to this board to die if that logic is perceived to be anti-home team. Presti and Demps are nowhere near in the same league as GM's. The only great move on Demps resume' is getting Cousins and that may not even bare the fruit we hope when it's all said and done because of awful timing.
    I sincerely hope you're not talking about me because I never once said they were comparable GMs.

  16. #66
    I already answered that question one page ago. Did you not read it? I haven't dodged any of your questions. You just refuse to accept my answers.

    And I called him trash? Please show me where I said that. In fact, I called him above average and placed him in a secondary tier when considering his entire body of work. You know, the post you continue to ignore?

    You are honestly the king of strawman arguments at the moment.

    I have made a "comprehensive" analysis. It's called three pages of comments. I'm not going to cut, paste, bold, capitalize, and quote for you anymore. It's not worth the effort. It's clear you suffer from tunnel vision.

    You insist on pointing out his track record and evaluating his performance in alignment with other GMs on the same scale. And you continue in your failure to realize that's illogical within the confines of my argument because each GM (In large part to their own efforts, yes) have their own unique collection of goals, assets, and resources to work with. Presti had a young group of 4 homegrown stars and produced nothing out of it, which is unbelievable in my eyes. That's my area of focus and that's what you keep glossing over.

    You can try to marginalize my opinion as a "hot take" all you want. I guess if I don't bow down to your superior intellect, I'm clearly irrational and delusional. If you don't want to continue the conversation over Pm, That's fine. I was extending you a courtesy in light of my personal circumstances but believe me, I owe you nothing.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by PelsFan2313 View Post
    I already answered that question one page ago. Did you not read it? I haven't dodged any of your questions. You just refuse to accept my answers.

    And I called him trash? Please show me where I said that. In fact, I called him above average and placed him in a secondary tier when considering his entire body of work. You know, the post you continue to ignore?

    You are honestly the king of strawman arguments at the moment.

    I have made a "comprehensive" analysis. It's called three pages of comments. I'm not going to cut, paste, bold, capitalize, and quote for you anymore. It's not worth the effort. It's clear you suffer from tunnel vision.

    You insist on pointing out his track record and evaluating his performance in alignment with other GMs on the same scale. And you continue in your failure to realize that's illogical within the confines of my argument because each GM (In large part to their own efforts, yes) have their own unique collection of goals, assets, and resources to work with. Presti had a young group of 4 homegrown stars and produced nothing out of it, which is unbelievable in my eyes. That's my area of focus and that's what you keep glossing over.

    You can try to marginalize my opinion as a "hot take" all you want. I guess if I don't bow down to your superior intellect, I'm clearly irrational and delusional. If you don't want to continue the conversation over Pm, That's fine. I was extending you a courtesy in light of my personal circumstances but believe me, I owe you nothing.
    EDIT: Im taking out the frustrated beginning to my response because I think it is not going to progress anything here.

    Calling someone "elite" or "above average" is inherently comparative in nature. You can not be elite if you are not being judged compared to your peers. You can not be above average without first determining what constitutes average or great. Establishing the parameters that a comparative judgement can be made. Otherwise, you are just doing what you are doing, which is applying labels haphazardly and totally subjectively based on shifting standards that have only been used to examine one person amongst a larger pool.

    My point has and continues to be, it is an incomplete process and to claim to have formed a defensible conclusion from that is a bit absurd. If Presti is "above average" based on your parameters, what are those parameters, and who qualifies as above him? If that process has not been engaged with yet, how can you possibly call him above average? Or label him as anything really? I understand GM's have different starting points, but success has to be measured somehow right? So how do we do that in order to get to a point that you can confidently call a person above average(or something else)?
    Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 09-24-2017 at 07:19 PM.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    EDIT: Im taking out the frustrated beginning to my response because I think it is not going to progress anything here.

    Calling someone "elite" or "above average" is inherently comparative in nature. You can not be elite if you are not being judged compared to your peers. You can not be above average without first determining what constitutes average or great. Establishing the parameters that a comparative judgement can be made. Otherwise, you are just doing what you are doing, which is applying labels haphazardly and totally subjectively based on shifting standards that have only been used to examine one person amongst a larger pool.

    My point has and continues to be, it is an incomplete process and to claim to have formed a defensible conclusion from that is a bit absurd. If Presti is "above average" based on your parameters, what are those parameters, and who qualifies as above him? If that process has not been engaged with yet, how can you possibly call him above average? Or label him as anything really? I understand GM's have different starting points, but success has to be measured somehow right? So how do we do that in order to get to a point that you can confidently call a person above average(or something else)?
    That is a great question. I was wondering when you would ask that. It makes up a significant part of our disagreement. I agree that both terms are comparative. You asked me earlier to place him in a tier. I placed him in a secondary tier of GMs. That by definition to me takes him out of the elite class and into whatever else you want to call it: above average, great, good, etc. If you want specific names, I'd probably put Buford in a transcendant class, Myers and Ainge in the first tier, and Presti in a tier below with perhaps 1-2 other names.

    Up until the time period I've been mentioning, I would have called him elite for the reasons you've talked about in detail. What I have criticized him for is his performance during that time period as it related to putting together a championship winning team. Why such high standards? Because of what he started with: Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka AND because of what he ended with: a first round sweep with only Westbrook remaining. His inability to capatilize on the incredible foundation he put together downgraded him in my eyes to said secondary tier. While his performance during that time period was subpar, I still have to credit him for what he did prior to that period because it was nothing short of remarkable. That's why he's still "above average" in totality to me despite the team's downward trajectory under his watch DURING said time period.

    Does that make sense?

    Again credit to him for taking advantage of the opportunities he was given with George and Melo. Do I consider those strokes of genius or fortuitous luck and timing? More of the latter, which is why Dell was brought up in the first place. I don't have to speak to the level of ineptitude he has shown over the last few seasons. My intent before everything went off track was to suggest that these two splashes do not speak to the quality of his recent performance as a GM, but his initial performance as a GM (if you want to credit him at all for those. Again, I don't as much, but minor point nevertheless).

    Presti has a second shot of competing for a title with a solid core. We'll see what happens.
    Last edited by PelsFan2313; 09-24-2017 at 10:20 PM.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by N.O.Bronco View Post
    I think this gets back to the point I have been stressing that while yes, in isolation he made some questionable moves, in the larger context, almost any GM you name is going to have scars like that on his resume. Major choices where the opportunity costs in hindsight make the choice taken seem like an obvious mistake. Even Buford has the "Dark Ages" that fans speak about during the failed Richard Jefferson experiment. But like that era for the Spurs, the organization had done enough, and continued to make other solid moves in lieu of that decision, to remain highly competitive.

    Are we also going to slam Buford for failing with Richard Jefferson and riding on the coattails of earlier success and thus denigrate the Western conference finals appearance and .700 win percentage over that period? Of course not, people are going to call him the GOAT of this era and point to the sustained success as evidence of that. Even though the GOAT himself isn't without those scars.
    Couldn't the same be said for Demps though?

  20. #70
    People making a big deal out of OKC when the Pelicans might sweep them in the regular season and maybe the Playoffs.

  21. #71
    A Soulful Sports Fan Contributor Eman5805's Avatar
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    We have no bench and no wings and that's why we won't make the playoffs.

    OKC has no bench and no bigs, but they're the #4 team at worst in the West.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Eman5805 View Post
    We have no bench and no wings and that's why we won't make the playoffs.

    OKC has no bench and no bigs, but they're the #4 team at worst in the West.
    Steven Adams is legit. They have a weak bench for sure but they lost almost nothing and added Melo and George and last year they made the playoffs. I'm as big of a Melo doubter as anyone but it seems difficult to me to say we're even with them. I think that guards currently have a greater impact than bigs do. Your team is limited by who the best ball handler on your team is. Ours is Jrue, theirs is Russ, Melo, and PG13.
    Quote Originally Posted by zakzak View Post
    that dumb Gentry killing Asik morale seriously man he is been good when you compare last season then suddenly he sits whole damn first half barely gets minutes what an idiot we need muscle wee need rebound he took of asik jones,ajinca they got no place on this team play Diallo at least he is decent.
    .......if healthy

    @Jabberwalker

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwalker View Post
    Steven Adams is legit. They have a weak bench for sure but they lost almost nothing and added Melo and George and last year they made the playoffs. I'm as big of a Melo doubter as anyone but it seems difficult to me to say we're even with them. I think that guards currently have a greater impact than bigs do. Your team is limited by who the best ball handler on your team is. Ours is Jrue, theirs is Russ, Melo, and PG13.
    That Rondo guy is a pretty good ball handler.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by P_B_&_G View Post
    That Rondo guy is a pretty good ball handler.
    We'll see. Seems like most teams have up on him. Hopefully they were wrong.

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