2024 Offseason Thread

[Algiersraised]

We will see honestly I hope he goes so we can see how great Trey is going to be and if Zion can be responsible enough to be the man and if Brandon really is the sole issue of this team

[Algiersraised]

Zion has the potential to be great he has nice numbers to be great you have to do it consistently I’ve only see him sit out consistently and score consistently defense effort sub par now call me a liar ???

[Pelicanidae]

That’s cool bro and on the Zion at 30 percent
Herb jones who’s not the star of this team was at about 33 percent his first two years and now he’s at 41 or 42
So why can’t out max player develop that part of his game does that not make him and the team better ?

Luka doncic shot 31 32 his first two years and 34 the year before last 38 last year does that not make them better
Y’all bring up everybody shooting 3s except Z
Embiid shoots em jokic shoots them
But Zion can’t or he’s unwilling ?

I will repeat myself for the last time.

Zion creates the most valuable shots in basketball. Nobody wants him to stop taking the most valuable shots in basketball so he can take worse shots. That is why people are fine with Zion not taking threes. Yes, it would be nice if he would occasionally take one when he's wide open, but it's not high priority.

BI takes some of the least valuable shots in basketball. People want him to stop taking the least valuable shots in basketball and take the good shots that he has already shown he can take and make, because he's done it before. The fact that he won't do this is high priority because it's part of what sinks his value as an offensive player next to Zion. He is ignoring the coaches and just doing his own thing. That is bad.

I am not sure how much clearer that can possibly be explained.

[Algiersraised]

And even Giannis shoots 3s to keep the defense honest
Also as much as z goes to the paint how often is he getting the calls lol he just getting beat and wore down

[Algiersraised]

I never said he needs to fall in love with the 3 but maybe sometimes he shouldn’t bullrush and spin into 4 defenders and take what’s being given and you don’t have to explain anything that I didn’t ask you , we can just drop it though because I feel as though this is teetering on the line of disrespecting each other and not just debating and disagreeing

[urboyJD]

And even Giannis shoots 3s to keep the defense honest
Also as much as z goes to the paint how often is he getting the calls lol he just getting beat and wore down

Giannis attempting 3 per game doesn't keep defenses honest. They still don't respect it and will gladly let him shoot on every single possession.

[Nichols]

Ingram and Kuz were both averaging over 20PPG While playing next to Bron. Allow that to sink in. He can play off ball, he can facilitate, he can do just about anything he's directed to do. He played point, shooting guard, and SF with the Lakers. Took him a while to acclimate but he did and functioned well in all roles given.

Under the right scheme and coach, Ingram and Zion pair just fine. Let's also not forget he set a few records in his first playoff series. The same series that pushed a championship squad. That same series that actually got Zion excited about returning and helping this team. That was done on Ingram's back primarily.

Ingram has clearly demonstrated that he's not a #1 guy. He can definitely be a #2. That said he has to adjust how he plays ball. His decisions need to be more decisive, he takes too long on occasion when making reads. In addition a better offensive scheme would eliminate the frequency in which we see him and Zion with 5 seconds left after a play is broken trying to bail the team out with a highly contested shot.

Some who are down on Ingram have legitimate reasons considering his style of play. Some never liked him, so even if he is playing optimally, he will simply be tolerated. And that's fine I guess.

[Algiersraised]

They give Zion way more room then giannis but atp whatever man we all have our minds made up we will just have to see what the office does and by midseason I’m sure we will be able to tell who were right and who was wrong

[Pelicanidae]

Under the right scheme and coach, Ingram and Zion pair just fine. Let's also not forget he set a few records in his first playoff series. The same series that pushed a championship squad. That same series that actually got Zion excited about returning and helping this team. That was done on Ingram's back primarily.

The weird lionisation of the Phoenix series for BI has always really confused me.

He had two excellent games and then 4 games where he was extremely mid, but I see people constantly talking about ''that Phoenix series'' as if he did a 2008 Lebron carry job.

Games 2 and 3, I think it was, he was awesome. We won one of those games, lost the other. Great effort from him, but I just don't get why people talk about it as proof that he's this awesome playoff guy who rises to the challenge.

He averaged 23/4.7/6.3 with 0.75 stls/blks combined per game on 42/27/76 splits in the other 4 games of that series. It wasn't that amazing.

[Algiersraised]

How much did the great z have in his 5 years ? Just ignore me I’m trolling now lol

[Pelicanidae]

Cody Zeller is being signed-and-traded to the Atlanta Hawks from the New Orleans Pelicans, as part of the Dejounte Murray trade, a league source told @spotrac.

— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) July 6, 2024

Lmao we can't even keep Zeller.

NO bigs. None. Forbidden.

[Nichols]

The weird lionisation of the Phoenix series for BI has always really confused me.

He had two excellent games and then 4 games where he was extremely mid, but I see people constantly talking about ''that Phoenix series'' as if he did a 2008 Lebron carry job.

Games 2 and 3, I think it was, he was awesome. We won one of those games, lost the other. Great effort from him, but I just don't get why people talk about it as proof that he's this awesome playoff guy who rises to the challenge.

He averaged 23/4.7/6.3 with 0.75 stls/blks combined per game on 42/27/76 splits in the other 4 games of that series. It wasn't that amazing.

Don't intentionally add more to what I said, then build a counter narrative around an intentional misinterpretation. It's not an honest way to dialogue. Did I say anything about an all-time great performance? Did I say anything about him being Lebron like? It's in these moments when exchanges with you can be challenging. I didn't convey anything you just argued against.

He demonstrated that he can perform well in the playoffs. That's all my statement meant regarding that series.

[Nichols]

Cody Zeller is being signed-and-traded to the Atlanta Hawks from the New Orleans Pelicans, as part of the Dejounte Murray trade, a league source told @spotrac.

— Keith Smith (@KeithSmithNBA) July 6, 2024

Lmao we can't even keep Zeller.

NO bigs. None. Forbidden.

I think it just means they have something else brewing. I wouldn't worry about it. The front office isn't that inept to allow the team to go into next season without bigs.

[Pelicanidae]

Don't intentionally add more to what I said, then build a counter narrative around an intentional misinterpretation. It's not an honest way to dialogue. Did I say anything about an all-time great performance? Did I say anything about him being Lebron like? It's in these moments when exchanges with you can be challenging. I didn't convey anything you just argued against.

He demonstrated that he can perform well in the playoffs. That's all my statement meant regarding that series.

Nah I wasn't accusing you of it, I was more bouncing off it. You said that he set records, was part of a team that pushed a championship squad, and that ''that was done on Ingram's back'', which made me think of how people talk about that Phoenix series. Not intended as a shot at you, you're just what prompted me to think of it.

What that series showed to me was that Ingram is capable of having good games in the playoffs, but not capable of just dominating a playoff series unless everything goes right for him. Very much a #2, as you said (or even a #3 on a sufficiently elite team), not a #1.

[Pelicanidae]

I think it just means they have something else brewing. I wouldn't worry about it. The front office isn't that inept to allow the team to go into next season without bigs.

Yeah I'm not actually losing my mind about Zeller, I just think it's funny that since the Murray trade being announced the Pels have been extremely quiet, our biggest need is clearly at C, and when some extra news finally comes out it's to say we lost another C.

[Nichols]

Yeah I'm not actually losing my mind about Zeller, I just think it's funny that since the Murray trade being announced the Pels have been extremely quiet, our biggest need is clearly at C, and when some extra news finally comes out it's to say we lost another C.

I'll be honest.. I try to project calm and patience, but it is starting to get to me a bit seeing teams make moves and us not. Rationally I understand why, but it is starting to touch just a bit of a nerve lol. I know it doesn't matter here but It's a cumulative effect since the same thing is happening with the Lakers. I think guys like Bron off court, but aren't excited about playing with him. Guys are turning down more money to play in places other than LA.

[Nichols]

Nah I wasn't accusing you of it, I was more bouncing off it. You said that he set records, was part of a team that pushed a championship squad, and that ''that was done on Ingram's back'', which made me think of how people talk about that Phoenix series. Not intended as a shot at you, you're just what prompted me to think of it.

What that series showed to me was that Ingram is capable of having good games in the playoffs, but not capable of just dominating a playoff series unless everything goes right for him. Very much a #2, as you said (or even a #3 on a sufficiently elite team), not a #1.

Agreed..

[Pelicanidae]

.@DejounteMurray is a Pelican �� pic.twitter.com/YFmaj4YEB1

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) July 6, 2024

Dejounte Murray trade official, he is a Pelican.

[msusousaphone]

The problem is that BI has never fit nicely behind Zion and that has limited Zion who clearly should be the primary option on this team. I just don?t see how you can continue to justify paying BI a ridiculous contract to do something he has never done and continuing this injury prone inconsistent offense the Pelicans continue to have. BI apparently has a far larger ego than people realize.

You guys say this but it continues to not be true. There's a reason all of the "BI and Zion didn't fit" posts are devoid of stats......because it's fiction. Zion had a beast of a season. Ingram had a decent season. Together they posted great numbers. Together with CJ they were just above average. We can speculate on why the equation didn't work with CJ but the Pelicans obviously felt like Murray is the answer to that.

[Darkhorse985]

You guys say this but it continues to not be true. There's a reason all of the "BI and Zion didn't fit" posts are devoid of stats......because it's fiction. Zion had a beast of a season. Ingram had a decent season. Together they posted great numbers. Together with CJ they were just above average. We can speculate on why the equation didn't work with CJ but the Pelicans obviously felt like Murray is the answer to that.

Did you post any actual stats in your criticism of people not posting actual stats to back up an opinion?

[Nichols]

Bucks are asking for a first round pick for Brook Lopez.. He'd actually be pretty good with Zion.

[msusousaphone]

I've said it a million times, I still believe it. This is what is the most likely outcome, to me:

- BI is going to re-sign for a number that functionally breaks the team because Griff cannot bear to let him go ($50m a year area)
- With no money and no options, we sign some centre off the trash heap to take up space - maybe it's Zeller, Theis, whoever
- We start next year with Trey glued to the bench, and because BI's still here and CJ won't go to the bench, Herb will too
- Starting lineup of DJM/CJ/BI/Zion/Whoever will be hot garbage but Willie will refuse to ever change it
- We will nevertheless win 45-ish games purely on talent level plus a great bench because Herb and Trey will carry it
- People will use that as ''proof'' that BI getting that money was the right choice
- Team gets smashed in the playoffs because the fit is garbage
- Team slowly falls apart over the next few years as the BI contract forces us to sell guys off to avoid paying them, or not retain them in FA (like Naji and Jonas) due to price
- Zion requests trade in year 7 or 8 due to failure to ever get out of the first round

Could something else happen? Sure. I hope so. Maybe BI suddenly gets his head screwed on straight and starts gunning from 3. Maybe Griff someone gets BI to take $37m a year. Maybe CJ volunteers to go to the bench so Trey can start. Maybe maybe maybe. Doubt all of it.

I think you're going to be ok. I think the one thing the Pels won't (aside from the absolute absurd, almost troll level idea that they just let BI walk for nothing next season) is sign him to a huge contract. It's either "accept your role as the #2 who has to prove it or you get traded".

A potential problem though is if BI comes back with a chip on his shoulder determined to prove all the doubters wrong about his ability to be an alpha dog. That could turn into a real headache. It's a lot. He'd have to fundamentally change his game and mindset. He'd have to take less money than he think's he's worth. He'd have to demonstrate he could thrive as a player in that role, something that he failed epically to do on team USA. If I was laying odds, I'd say he'd opt to be the number 1 on a bad team, convinced they could build around him into a winner...

Agree.

Except when I play it out in my head I think it's highly more likely than accepting the lesser contract is the beginning of acceptance to the role.

[Darkhorse985]

Bucks are asking for a first round pick for Brook Lopez.. He'd actually be pretty good with Zion.

He would be worth a couple 2nds if we had them. Kinda old to trade for a 1st. The Lopez brothers should be on retirement watch.

[msusousaphone]

Did you post any actual stats in your criticism of people not posting actual stats to back up an opinion?

BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.

BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.

[Nichols]

He would be worth a couple 2nds if we had them. Kinda old to trade for a 1st. The Lopez brothers should be on retirement watch.

Can't argue with that. I think Brook has a few more years to give though.