Zion Williamson: Trying My Best To Buy In Right Now

[Speakthetruth]

"Last year, we had a team meeting and we brought up some things I can do better, especially with buying into the program. Right now, it's tough. I'm taking a little bit of a backseat right now. I'm trusting the process. I'm trying my best to buy in right now," Williamson said following Sunday's loss to the Dallas Mavericks.

Through eight games, Williamson is averaging a career-low 21.6 points per game. He's also shooting 51.5% from the field, which is well below his career-mark of 60.5% entering this season.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...y-In-Right-Now

[Fedupfan]

It’s because nobody on this team has any balls whatsoever. They have no leadership and a pushover coach. It’s on par with what a pelicans player would say.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

I think this boils down to the issues between Zion and BI regarding point Zion.

BI apparently was very unhappy with Van Gundy’s point Zion offense. He felt that it reduced him to standing in the corner for a catch and shoot. So when Zion came back last year, we were posting up Zion more and reducing point Zion to placate BI. Then BI’s toe happened and we went back to point Zion. Which is when Zion had his best month as an NBA player.

So now that they’re both back on the court, I think they’re trying to figure out a way to reduce point Zion to allow BI to run more ISO’s I guess.

Even though I thought the whole point of Barrega’s offense was to reduce ISO and have more off the ball movement. Something we really haven’t seen with either Zion or BI.

So I think Zion is blaming his reduced performance on reducing his point Zion touches. Which probably isn’t completely fair, since I think Zion’s game conditioning isn’t where it should be. Nor was his game conditioning where it should be at this time last year.

The whole problem comes down to the fact that neither Zion nor Brandon have really evolved their game to any great extent. Both want heavy doses of ISO ball while the rest of the team stands outside the arc. Both should have expanded their game more than they have.

BI should have a better catch and shoot game. Zion needs to cut to the rim more or make himself more available in the dunker’s spot.

But ultimately I think we need to trade one of them. Or maybe just blow the whole thing up and trade both of them. I don’t have any optimism that either one is mature enough to build a team around.

[luckyman]

During that SVG year Ingram was 43% on 234 catch and shoot 3s. We really need to stop crow barring Brandon Ingram into Zion's problems.

They've used Zion all over the floor including point Zion this year. Why do people think NBA coaches are just completely stupid and would just abandon things that appear to work?

We talked about this already last week. The NBA adjusts all the time. What seemed to work for 4 games in December last year doesn't mean it will work forever. Especially for an extremely short handed team that was missing 5 of its top 9 rotation players.

The player has to adjust and expand. That's on him. Let's not turn Zion into one of these NFL QBs that constantly get their coaches fired because it's always somebody else's fault.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

During that SVG year Ingram was 43% on 234 catch and shoot 3s. We really need to stop crow barring Brandon Ingram into Zion's problems.

They've used Zion all over the floor including point Zion this year. Why do people think NBA coaches are just completely stupid and would just abandon things that appear to work?

We talked about this already last week. The NBA adjusts all the time. What seemed to work for 4 games in December last year doesn't mean it will work forever. Especially for an extremely short handed team that was missing 5 of its top 9 rotation players.

The player has to adjust and expand. That's on him. Let's not turn Zion into one of these NFL QBs that constantly get their coaches fired because it's always somebody else's fault.

So two years later how has BI’s catch and shoot game improved? I think we need to stop giving either one of them a pass. Just because you have a beef with Zion’s game doesn’t mean that BI is above criticism.

How has BI improved over the last two years as an offensive player. Has he gotten more efficient? Has he gotten better in getting points in the natural flow of the offense? Or does he still dribble the ball to the same spots for a contested mid range jumper or pass the ball to a teammate after most of the shot clock has run?

[As I See It]

I've been saying it for three years and two years ago the Pelicans even tried to address it with CP3 and Kyle Lowery. This team needs a competent point guard.

How much does a really good point guard mean to a team? Just asked the Rockets....better yet, just ask the Pelicans who were just 'played' by Fred VanVleet (a slightly above average PG). Ask the 'Mailman' what John Stockton meant to his career. Ask Sir Charles what Mo Cheeks meant to him. Hell, minus Isaiah, the Bad Boyz would have been just plain ole bad.

The last time the Pelicans won a playoff series, they invested in a worn out, aging relic (Rajon Rondo) who instilled some discipline into their helter-skelter style of play.

They knew what they needed two years ago...how could they have forgotten?

PS: Don't tell me that GTA is the answer. He's a nice player...but hardly a difference maker.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

I've been saying it for three years and two years ago the Pelicans even tried to address it with CP3 and Kyle Lowery. This team needs a competent point guard.

How much does a really good point guard mean to a team? Just asked the Rockets....better yet, just ask the Pelicans who were just 'played' by Fred VanVleet (a slightly above average PG). Ask the 'Mailman' what John Stockton meant to his career. Ask Sir Charles what Mo Cheeks meant to him. Hell, minus Isaiah, the Bad Boyz would have been just plain ole bad.

The last time the Pelicans won a playoff series, they invested in a worn out, aging relic (Rajon Rondo) who instilled some discipline into their helter-skelter style of play.

They knew what they needed two years ago...how could they have forgotten?

PS: Don't tell me that GTA is the answer. He's a nice player...but hardly a difference maker.

I’m sure really good point guards are lining up for the chance to stand on the perimeter and watch Zion or BI play ISO ball, because that’s all either of them want to do.

[luckyman]

So two years later how has BI’s catch and shoot game improved? I think we need to stop giving either one of them a pass. Just because you have a beef with Zion’s game doesn’t mean that BI is above criticism.

How has BI improved over the last two years as an offensive player. Has he gotten more efficient? Has he gotten better in getting points in the natural flow of the offense? Or does he still dribble the ball to the same spots for a contested mid range jumper or pass the ball to a teammate after most of the shot clock has run?

So Zion developing a mid range or floater is just a personal beef I have with his game? Thats a rather...injudicious if not absurd way to put it. Also BI was near 50/40/90 on shooting splits last year. I'd say his efficiency had improved huh?

You're not going to improve much on 43%. Thats upper tier as it is. The point is how could a player be pouting about "sitting in a corner" while playing well doing it?

We just finished 2 years talking about Ingram as a playmaking wing. People have made multiple videos about. Yet some people somehow come back to this Ingam = ISO ball?

Here's one somebody made just 4 months ago. Since we tend to forget things.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

So Zion developing a mid range or floater is just a personal beef I have with his game? Thats a rather...injudicious if not absurd way to put it. Also BI was near 50/40/90 on shooting splits last year. I'd say his efficiency had improved huh?

You're not going to improve much on 43%. Thats upper tier as it is. The point is how could a player be pouting about "sitting in a corner" while playing well doing it?

We just finished 2 years talking about Ingram as a playmaking wing. People have made multiple videos about. Yet some people somehow come back to this Ingam = ISO ball?

Here's one somebody made just 4 months ago. Since we tend to forget things.

Lol. So you’re saying he peaked at the age of 24? BI has absolutely pedestrian stats for a star. If his best year was last year, then he proved that he can lead his team to a .500 record, because that’s what the Pels were when he was playing.

BI is very good at making contested mid range jumpers. Yay. Out of all the things in the NBA to be very good at that’s probably the worst. So if you enjoy watching someone dribble more than half the shot clock out so he can get to a specific spot in the court to make a long mid range shot, then Brandon is your guy.

As for why Brandon would complain about taking catch and shoot three point shots when he was so good at it, you have to ask him. Because apparently he thought that was beneath him. And he has been very, very bad at it this year.

I’m hoping that could change. Because if Brandon let more of his offense come in the flow of the game as opposed to constant ISO’s then I think he could become a legitimate year after year all star.

And you’re acting like I’m praising Zion, I’m not. I agree that Zion’s game has stagnated. I’m just not sure that a mid range jumper is the solution for him. I’d like to see him develop a three point shot to make opponents come out and guard him on the perimeter, which would open up his drive game even more. I’d also like to see him develop a post game, so he doesn’t need to just play ISO ball all the time. And I’d like to see more off the ball movement from Zion. And I’d like to see him better conditioned.

Personally I think that Brandon will probably enjoy a long mediocre NBA career. Especially since he refuses to play with any degree of physical discomfort. And as the star he’ll constantly be on a mediocre team hovering around .500.

Zion will probably have a very short NBA career, with occasional spurts of great play, and extended spurts of no play. So I guess it’s pick your poison.

If by some miracle Zion can stay healthy for a full season and you build a team around him, you have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs. Otherwise your team will probably crash and burn, and you can hope to have better luck with a top pick in the future.

[luckyman]

Lol. So you’re saying he peaked at the age of 24? BI has absolutely pedestrian stats for a star. If his best year was last year, then he proved that he can lead his team to a .500 record, because that’s what the Pels were when he was playing.

BI is very good at making contested mid range jumpers. Yay. Out of all the things in the NBA to be very good at that’s probably the worst. So if you enjoy watching someone dribble more than half the shot clock out so he can get to a specific spot in the court to make a long mid range shot, then Brandon is your guy.

As for why Brandon would complain about taking catch and shoot three point shots when he was so good at it, you have to ask him. Because apparently he thought that was beneath him. And he has been very, very bad at it this year.

I’m hoping that could change. Because if Brandon let more of his offense come in the flow of the game as opposed to constant ISO’s then I think he could become a legitimate year after year all star.

And you’re acting like I’m praising Zion, I’m not. I agree that Zion’s game has stagnated. I’m just not sure that a mid range jumper is the solution for him. I’d like to see him develop a three point shot to make opponents come out and guard him on the perimeter, which would open up his drive game even more. I’d also like to see him develop a post game, so he doesn’t need to just play ISO ball all the time. And I’d like to see more off the ball movement from Zion. And I’d like to see him better conditioned.

Personally I think that Brandon will probably enjoy a long mediocre NBA career. Especially since he refuses to play with any degree of physical discomfort. And as the star he’ll constantly be on a mediocre team hovering around .500.

Zion will probably have a very short NBA career, with occasional spurts of great play, and extended spurts of no play. So I guess it’s pick your poison.

If by some miracle Zion can stay healthy for a full season and you build a team around him, you have a chance to make some noise in the playoffs. Otherwise your team will probably crash and burn, and you can hope to have better luck with a top pick in the future.

You're just saying stupid *** out of frustration now. I get it, but BI didn't "lead" the team to a .500 record last year. He only played 45 games. He "led" them from 12th seed to 7th before falling to 9th in the last week of the season. All while putting up an efficient 29/7/8.

You're also not going to get rid of iso possessions out of your best players. Every team relies on their best players taking and making tough iso shots. BI has been one of the best iso scorers in the league for a while. I just posted his shooting splits LAST YEAR. Not from age 24.

Is is not rather odd as bad as they looked last night, the only player on the plus side of the box +/- in the first half was BI? They were actually beating the Mavericks when BI was on the floor in the 1st half and were still down by 13 at halftime. Just dribble dribble mid range iso huh?

I am just sick of people throwing strays at Ingram everytime they force themselves to criticize Zion's game. And the BI criticism often makes no sense. You just sit there and make stuff up.

[luckyman]

Also if I was Willie, I'd just let Dyson initiate the offense. Even if Herb is back I'd bring Jordan off the bench, rely on defense and hammer the paint. BI is shooting 75% at the rim so the strength right now is inside. They just aren't going to beat anybody trying to out shoot them from 3.

I'd start Dyson/Herb/BI/Zion/JV and just live with those results.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

You're just saying stupid *** out of frustration now. I get it, but BI didn't "lead" the team to a .500 record last year. He only played 45 games. He "led" them from 12th seed to 7th before falling to 9th in the last week of the season. All while putting up an efficient 29/7/8.

You're also not going to get rid of iso possessions out of your best players. Every team relies on their best players taking and making tough iso shots. BI has been one of the best iso scorers in the league for a while. I just posted his shooting splits LAST YEAR. Not from age 24.

Is is not rather odd as bad as they looked last night, the only player on the plus side of the box +/- in the first half was BI? They were actually beating the Mavericks when BI was on the floor in the 1st half and were still down by 13 at halftime. Just dribble dribble mid range iso huh?

I am just sick of people throwing strays at Ingram everytime they force themselves to criticize Zion's game. And the BI criticism often makes no sense. You just sit there and make stuff up.

Don’t forget about BI’s 3.3 turnovers a game. Yes, Brandon Ingram is one of the “best” ISO players in the league because he does that to almost the exclusion of anything else. He’s also turning the ball over more than any other top ISO player in the league. With Zion coming a close second. I don’t know how you can watch him play and tell yourself that this is a guy that can lead a team to a championship. His teammates become an afterthought on sub .500 shooting.

I’ll give Brandon this. In the Mavs game he was meh, while Zion was awful. So congrats I guess.

Top players have an ISO game in their bag. Brandon’s ISO game is his entire bag. That’s the problem. He’s a meh Alpha and a bad beta.

[luckyman]

Don’t forget about BI’s 3.3 turnovers a game. Yes, Brandon Ingram is one of the “best” ISO players in the league because he does that to almost the exclusion of anything else. He’s also turning the ball over more than any other top ISO player in the league. With Zion coming a close second. I don’t know how you can watch him play and tell yourself that this is a guy that can lead a team to a championship. His teammates become an afterthought on sub .500 shooting.

I’ll give Brandon this. In the Mavs game he was meh, while Zion was awful. So congrats I guess.

Top players have an ISO game in their bag. Brandon’s ISO game is his entire bag. That’s the problem. He’s a meh Alpha and a bad beta.

Per game and given his usage rate, 3.3 is not a high number. Jokic averages 3.4 so far this year and 3.6 during their championship run last year. Doncic is at 4.2, Paul George 3.2, Durant 4.1, Lebron 4.1.

Even most of his high turnover games this year have come in comfortable victories and not in bunches.

His iso game is not his entire bag. I just posted a video which you probably refused to watch.

Relax. Forget a about basketball for a while. It's only been 10 games. Stop typing.

[As I See It]

It's as plain as the nose on your face....

One Player is stagnating (if not regressing) and the other player is adding to his game. It's that simple.

Think of it this way....he got his money and now we have a bill for $197,000,0000 due within five years. FOR WHAT????

[As I See It]

It's as plain as the nose on your face....

One Player is stagnating (if not regressing) and the other player is adding to his game. It's that simple.

Think of it this way....he got his money and now we have a bill for $197,000,0000 due within five years. FOR WHAT????

Why not ask our resident 'Number's God", dae? Is that $197,000,000 contract tradable, dae?

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Per game and given his usage rate, 3.3 is not a high number. Jokic averages 3.4 so far this year and 3.6 during their championship run last year. Doncic is at 4.2, Paul George 3.2, Durant 4.1, Lebron 4.1.

Even most of his high turnover games this year have come in comfortable victories and not in bunches.

His iso game is not his entire bag. I just posted a video which you probably refused to watch.

Relax. Forget an about basketball for a while. It's only been 10 games. Stop typing.

BI’s turnovers during ISO’s are the worst in the league. Zion is 2nd worst. They are 10th and 11th in ISO plays total. Luka is averaging almost twice the assists that Brandon is. His turnovers occur when he’s trying to playmake. Brandon’s are occurring while he’s dribbling the air out the ball trying to get to his spot. Playing ISO ball and turning the ball over at a high rate are recipes for disaster. We shouldn’t have two guys both rated this high in ISO plays. We certainly shouldn’t have two guys who turn the ball over the most in ISO plays. But here we are.

Seriously if you can watch Brandon’s play and tell yourself this is good basketball than stop being a fan of basketball.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

It's as plain as the nose on your face....

One Player is stagnating (if not regressing) and the other player is adding to his game. It's that simple.

Think of it this way....he got his money and now we have a bill for $197,000,0000 due within five years. FOR WHAT????

I wish that Brandon has evolved his game but he hasn’t. It’s still the same. Dribble, dribble, dribble dribble, take a tough mid range shot if it hasn’t dribbled off his foot already. So is your desire to force feed the ball to a guy for ISO plays when the guy turns the ball over more than anyone else in ISO, and shoots less than 50%? That’s not successful basketball.

I’m not denying that Brandon doesn’t have the skills to be a much better basketball player. It just appears that he has no desire to change the style of his play.

[fullcourtpress]

I wish that Brandon has evolved his game but he hasn?t. It?s still the same. Dribble, dribble, dribble dribble, take a tough mid range shot if it hasn?t dribbled off his foot already. So is your desire to force feed the ball to a guy for ISO plays when the guy turns the ball over more than anyone else in ISO, and shoots less than 50%? That?s not successful basketball.

I?m not denying that Brandon doesn?t have the skills to be a much better basketball player. It just appears that he has no desire to change the style of his play.

BI has brought it when it counted the most

During the playoff run and first round two years ago
and
the end of last year's playoff push... I believe he was western conference player of the month


i feel what zion is saying.... but give me 40 games before running head

[Freyfamilyreuni]

BI has brought it when it counted the most

During the playoff run and first round two years ago
and
the end of last year's playoff push... I believe he was western conference player of the month


i feel what zion is saying.... but give me 40 games before running head

Oh, sure, you can count on BI on leading you to the 9th 10th spot in the Western Conference.

[PELICANSFAN]

I've been saying it for three years and two years ago the Pelicans even tried to address it with CP3 and Kyle Lowery. This team needs a competent point guard.

How much does a really good point guard mean to a team? Just asked the Rockets....better yet, just ask the Pelicans who were just 'played' by Fred VanVleet (a slightly above average PG). Ask the 'Mailman' what John Stockton meant to his career. Ask Sir Charles what Mo Cheeks meant to him. Hell, minus Isaiah, the Bad Boyz would have been just plain ole bad.

The last time the Pelicans won a playoff series, they invested in a worn out, aging relic (Rajon Rondo) who instilled some discipline into their helter-skelter style of play.

They knew what they needed two years ago...how could they have forgotten?

PS: Don't tell me that GTA is the answer. He's a nice player...but hardly a difference maker.

FVV is not the true PG you have been calling for. He is basically a slightly better CJ with defense. Stocktons do not grow on trees. How many of them are in the NBA at all right now?

[As I See It]

FVV is not the true PG you have been calling for. He is basically a slightly better CJ with defense. Stocktons do not grow on trees. How many of them are in the NBA at all right now?

You miss my whole point. 'He' isn't LeBron, Luca, Giannis, Kobe, Joker or even, Ja. "He' needs a sidekick to make himself shine....AND...'he' doesn't make the players around himself better. Like it or not, 'he' is a 'one trick pony' who has been figured out and has shown no interest in five years to expand his game for his own sake...OR...the good of the whole.

The six players I mentioned above can take the other four players on the court and carry them to the finish line. 'He' can carry the other four players on the court to the 'Golden Corral' and that's about it.

He's 'Meadowlark' Lemon without the Globetrotters (and the Washington Generals)...merely a $197,000,000 entertainer who will amaze you once or twice a game and suck on both ends of the court otherwise. Can you deny this?

[PELICANSFAN]

You miss my whole point. 'He' isn't LeBron, Luca, Giannis, Kobe, Joker or even, Ja. "He' needs a sidekick to make himself shine....AND...'he' doesn't make the players around himself better. Like it or not, 'he' is a 'one trick pony' who has been figured out and has shown no interest in five years to expand his game for his own sake...OR...the good of the whole.

The six players I mentioned above can take the other four players on the court and carry them to the finish line. 'He' can carry the other four players on the court to the 'Golden Corral' and that's about it.

He's 'Meadowlark' Lemon without the Globetrotters (and the Washington Generals)...merely a $197,000,000 entertainer who will amaze you once or twice a game and suck on both ends of the court otherwise. Can you deny this?

I must have completely missed that hidden point because you were speaking of the team needing a competent PG and used FVV in the example and went on to talk about how important Stockton was to Malone. I do not see how FVV compares at all to someone like Stockton.

[luckyman]

BI’s turnovers during ISO’s are the worst in the league. Zion is 2nd worst. They are 10th and 11th in ISO plays total. Luka is averaging almost twice the assists that Brandon is. His turnovers occur when he’s trying to playmake. Brandon’s are occurring while he’s dribbling the air out the ball trying to get to his spot. Playing ISO ball and turning the ball over at a high rate are recipes for disaster. We shouldn’t have two guys both rated this high in ISO plays. We certainly shouldn’t have two guys who turn the ball over the most in ISO plays. But here we are.

Seriously if you can watch Brandon’s play and tell yourself this is good basketball than stop being a fan of basketball.

Like I said earlier. You're just pulling stuff straight from your behind now. For iso turnovers Jordan Poole is 1st, Scottie Barnes 2nd, Immanuel Quickly is 3rd. They are followed by Aaron Gordon and Franz Wagner.

On the flip side, he's far higher than any of them in points per iso possession and is tied for 14th in the league. Also is highest on the team by a good margin.

That's just pure bad faith not even worth wasting time on.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Like I said earlier. You're just pulling stuff straight from your behind now. For iso turnovers Jordan Poole is 1st, Scottie Barnes 2nd, Immanuel Quickly is 3rd. They are followed by Aaron Gordon and Franz Wagner.

On the flip side, he's far higher than any of them in points per iso possession and is tied for 14th in the league. Also is highest on the team by a good margin.

That's just pure bad faith not even worth wasting time on.

Yea, I messed up that stat. Out of the top 11 nba players in ISO attempts BI and Zion are 10th and 11th, and 1st and 2nd in iso to’s in that group of 11. There, feel better?

Here’s another stat. We’re - 13.9 with BI on the court and 0.0 with him off the court. Not that we’re much better, er less worse with Zion. -9.4 with Zion, - 2.4 with Zion on the bench. Hopefully I got this stat wrong as well.

[luckyman]

Yea, I messed up that stat. Out of the top 11 nba players in ISO attempts BI and Zion are 10th and 11th, and 1st and 2nd in iso to’s in that group of 11. There, feel better?

Here’s another stat. We’re - 13.9 with BI on the court and 0.0 with him off the court. Not that we’re much better, er less worse with Zion. -9.4 with Zion, - 2.4 with Zion on the bench. Hopefully I got this stat wrong as well.

No you're wrong again. They are not 1st and 2nd in iso TO as measured by Tov% which accounts for usage/possessions. Neither of them are even top 10.

The second stat is misleading since it includes lots of garbage time.

3rd, again, Ingram is top 15 in ppp in iso (70th percentile). The team scores when he's in iso.

They won big tonight. S.T.O.P.