All Star Zion

[6warddude]

Andrew Lopez @_Andrew_Lopez

David Griffin on Zion Williamson: “I think it’s a matter of all the objective metrics we can have on where he is at and how he feels lining up. And to this point they haven’t.” Until that happens, Griff said, Z won’t be cleared for 5-on-5.

Andrew Lopez @_Andrew_Lopez

Said metrics are based on things they can measure in the weight room in terms of flexibility & court speed. Also Z’s reaction to how he feels after each exercise. “When he feels like him, he’ll tell us he’s ready for the next phase. And to this stage he hasn’t felt like that.”

Well

so what i take from this is that zion is taking the same approach with his injury that BI did with his toe.........if thats true then i cant blame him for taking that approach since he has had set backs from other injuries in his past....plus he is seeing that BI did it his way and didnt have a set back and is tearing the league up right now because he was confident that he was fully healthy.....

so im guessing that zion is feeling confident that the team can win the play-in and he will feel/be healthy our first home playoff game.....

[Pelicanidae]

Still cannot get a single clear, unambiguous piece of info on Zion.

Two weeks ago, we get clips of him dunking in pre-game.
Then a week ago, we hear he's doing 3v3.
Then Willie Green tells us, actually, no he's not been in practice at all.
Then Shams tells us that things are progressing okay and the aim is return for playoffs.
Then Griff tells us that Zion's fine and it's just that he doesn't feel 100% ready - he's reluctant.
Then today, Shams is on the Pat McAfee show telling us that the problem is that Zion is ''not close'' in terms of conditioning.


What the hell is going on, man. Why can't we get a single clear piece of news that isn't in mass conflict. We've heard everything now.

So the problem is EITHER his conditioning, his injury, or his motivation. One of the three. Or maybe all of the three. Or, hell, at this point maybe none of the three and there's a secret fourth reason.

Optics on this are terrible, team still cannot communicate a clear message for the life of them.

[Freyfamilyreuni]

Still cannot get a single clear, unambiguous piece of info on Zion.

Two weeks ago, we get clips of him dunking in pre-game.
Then a week ago, we hear he's doing 3v3.
Then Willie Green tells us, actually, no he's not been in practice at all.
Then Shams tells us that things are progressing okay and the aim is return for playoffs.
Then Griff tells us that Zion's fine and it's just that he doesn't feel 100% ready - he's reluctant.
Then today, Shams is on the Pat McAfee show telling us that the problem is that Zion is ''not close'' in terms of conditioning.


What the hell is going on, man. Why can't we get a single clear piece of news that isn't in mass conflict. We've heard everything now.

So the problem is EITHER his conditioning, his injury, or his motivation. One of the three. Or maybe all of the three. Or, hell, at this point maybe none of the three and there's a secret fourth reason.

Optics on this are terrible, team still cannot communicate a clear message for the life of them.

It may not be the fans that the Pelicans are trying to hoodwink, instead it may be the NBA commissioner?s office. Putting on my tin foil hat for a second. If the NBA does try to influence the outcome of games through their refs, then a team might want to give the NBA a reason to prefer the Pelicans to be in the Post season, as opposed to say, the Timberwolves.
So if you put it out there that Zion is close to coming back, then perhaps the NBA decides that if they are going to put their thumb on the scale, they should do it for the team that has a marketable star, that people would tune in to see.

[As I See It]

Still cannot get a single clear, unambiguous piece of info on Zion.

Two weeks ago, we get clips of him dunking in pre-game.
Then a week ago, we hear he's doing 3v3.
Then Willie Green tells us, actually, no he's not been in practice at all.
Then Shams tells us that things are progressing okay and the aim is return for playoffs.
Then Griff tells us that Zion's fine and it's just that he doesn't feel 100% ready - he's reluctant.
Then today, Shams is on the Pat McAfee show telling us that the problem is that Zion is ''not close'' in terms of conditioning.


What the hell is going on, man. Why can't we get a single clear piece of news that isn't in mass conflict. We've heard everything now.

So the problem is EITHER his conditioning, his injury, or his motivation. One of the three. Or maybe all of the three. Or, hell, at this point maybe none of the three and there's a secret fourth reason.

Optics on this are terrible, team still cannot communicate a clear message for the life of them.

The man was an 'anomaly' from the beginning. His norm is, indeed, very different from the rest. At least, that's the claim of his advocates about his jaw-dropping, on-the-court performances and, from his detractors regarding the unending avalanche of "off-the-court" infirmities and disappointments he has put this team through (through no fault of his own....or is it?).

Now here we are in Year Four and both, he and the franchise we love so much, are pretty much 'tied at the hip' for the immediate future thanks to that Max Contract he was, literally, 'gifted' with (it certainly wasn't earned) last summer. A disproportionate amount management's time, effort, energy, and money is now being spent on one, non-contributing player compared to all the others combined. At some point (if not already) this imbalance will destroy this team.

Everyone thinks I hate Zion Williamson; I don't. But, I will admit that I love this team considerably more. Candidly, I wish the man would do the seemingly impossible...get on the court...and shut me up permanently. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[hornetsrebirth]

Most recent update says Zion wont be available for the 1st round (if we make it). Hate to say it but thats a wrap for our playoff run this year. We can only overcome so much without our best player on the court. Making it past an elimination game, and then winning on the road in the play in, and then facing a top seed, its just too much to ask.

[As I See It]

Most recent update says Zion wont be available for the 1st round (if we make it). Hate to say it but thats a wrap for our playoff run this year. We can only overcome so much without our best player on the court. Making it past an elimination game, and then winning on the road in the play in, and then facing a top seed, its just too much to ask.

With all due respect, in order to be our "best player", doesn't he have to play?

[6warddude]

With all due respect, in order to be our "best player", doesn't he have to play?

lol..

[Pelicanidae]

Zion Williamson says the main thing holding him back right now is getting over the mental hurdle of his injury. Says there are times when he still feels a hesitation when he makes certain moves.

He doesn't wanna play until he "feels like Zion"

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) April 11, 2023

When asked if he'll be ready to play in the first round, Williamson said:

"If I feel like Zion again"

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) April 11, 2023

Zion:

“The ******** sucks. I don’t know how else to say it. The ******** sucks. I love this game. ... For those people who think I just want to sit on the sideline just to sit over there, I don’t know why people think that. Nah, it sucks. I just want to be playing basketball.”

— Will Guillory (@WillGuillory) April 11, 2023

Well finally, we've heard from Zion. And he confirms that actually, Griff wasn't completely full of garbage: it is a reluctance issue, but it's a reluctance that's related to physical sensation, whether it's a phantom sensation or not.

My one concern is this: sitting out longer until you feel right is fine, in general. BI did the same with his toe bruise - he took two months off for that and part of the reason was that he said he just didn't feel like himself on that foot yet. But surely in the playoffs you should be willing to dig a little deeper on this, right? Slightly more willing to brave some adversity.

I guess we'll find out, Zion himself is now saying the playoffs aren't out of the question, depending on how he feels, but personally, I just don't know how he could not allow himself to play in the post-season. If I knew I was physically ready, I don't think I could handle not playing.

[Pelicanidae]

That said, I do think this is a half-truth statement, prepared and cleared with the organisation, and that there might still be conditioning concerns.

He's spoken so many times about how much he hated not being able to play last post-season and being sidelined for it, I struggle to believe he legitimately would allow himself to miss it again if there was no push-back from the org.

[Pelicanidae]

Full Zion quote: "When I go to make certain moves, there is that hesitation. Sometimes there's not and sometimes there is. And I understand the magnitude of these games coming up and I don't want to be out there hesitating or doing something that may affect my team in a bad way."

— Andrew Lopez (@_Andrew_Lopez) April 11, 2023

I promise you Zion, even at 30% you would give the team more than Nance does right now.

[Pelicanidae]

“It’s tough… from my perspective I just want to play basketball. I want to play the game I love. Reality of it is, when I check my phone, when I’m just watching TV, no matter what it is I can’t escape what the world thinks.” pic.twitter.com/7DVcmevHjC

— Pro Pels Talk (@ProPelsTalk) April 11, 2023

I say this with zero judgment to Zion, full support of him, and as someone who has mental health issues myself and gets regular psychiatric support.

This man needs a sports psychologist. This offseason that needs to be a priority.

So many of these comments sound like someone who has so much pressure and expectation on them, they're letting it overwhelm them. He sounds scared to fail, scared to disappoint the fans, scared to fail his teammates, scared to not be able to give what people want from him. That's a difficult situation to be in and I have immense sympathy for it.

Get this man some help, please.

[Pelicanidae]

Zion's full interview from after today's practice ��️#OneNOLA | #Pelicans pic.twitter.com/BEDYk8Xq2M

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) April 11, 2023

He says he's physically fine, that he can do ''pretty much everything'' but that he needs to ''feel like Zion'' before anything else and that it's a ''collective decision'' on when he returns, it's not solely up to him.

[PELICANSFAN]

Zion's comments sound almost exactly like BI's comments when he took so long to come back from the toe injury. I wonder if the training staff is putting these ideas in their heads about when they should try to push it. Very odd that both had similar comments and took (what appears to be) excessively long to come back.

[As I See It]

Zion's full interview from after today's practice ��️#OneNOLA | #Pelicans pic.twitter.com/BEDYk8Xq2M

— New Orleans Pelicans (@PelicansNBA) April 11, 2023

He says he's physically fine, that he can do ''pretty much everything'' but that he needs to ''feel like Zion'' before anything else and that it's a ''collective decision'' on when he returns, it's not solely up to him.

While I don't agree with many things he has done, in this case, I think a lot of folks owe David Griffin (and the organization) an apology. Straight from the 'horse's mouth' he says he's not ready so, Griff was exonerated from lying to the public.

Now I wonder if we can discuss the game in which our season hangs in the balance. I'll start....

-- Who is CJ going to guard and will he win that matchup? SGA? Giddey? Dort? One of the William's?

-- After being benched in the season finale, will DD again be part of the rotation?

-- Will Green utilize our size advantage and make JV a focal point of the team's game plan, or will he succumb to his instincts and opt for an injured LNJ?

[Algiersraised]

I don’t buy it
I think griffin needs to step down
We can never get concise info
Don’t put it passed the team to get him to say this to take pressure of him and everyone else

[Jabberwalker]

While I don't agree with many things he has done, in this case, I think a lot of folks owe David Griffin (and the organization) an apology. Straight from the 'horse's mouth' he says he's not ready so, Griff was exonerated from lying to the public.

Now I wonder if we can discuss the game in which our season hangs in the balance. I'll start....

-- Who is CJ going to guard and will he win that matchup? SGA? Giddey? Dort? One of the William's?

-- After being benched in the season finale, will DD again be part of the rotation?

-- Will Green utilize our size advantage and make JV a focal point of the team's game plan, or will he succumb to his instincts and opt for an injured LNJ?

I have a dog that regularly poops on my floor. Today there was poop on my floor so I thought it was the dog's. Turns out it was a different dog. Do I apologize to the dog or is it expected because he craps on my floor?

No need for anyone to feel bad about Griff when they suspect he's being deceitful when he's been shady in the past about this exact scenario IMO.

And everyone can go hog wild with analyzing the game, and god bless you, but this post season is only about getting guys reps in games that matter and hopefully fuel them to get right for the next season.

[msusousaphone]

The "I don't feel like Zion/BI" is a bad look. I get that behind that is "there's a higher risk of injury if I go out right now" but man.....just say that. Because that is like "ok, cool, man. Yeah. Take it easy. Don't risk any long term career stuff" whereas the "I just don't feel like me" sounds more like "I'm not 100% but there's no big risk....I just won't play unless I'm 100%" and there's a huge problem with that last one. I get it.....or at least I think I do....but it's a bad look.

[neworleanshoo]

Sounds to me like a kid who's hearing from those around him to protect himself and his long-term future in spite of what he wants in the short-term. His quotes were discouraging, but if you dig down it's understandable and makes sense from all angles.

I'd love to see him come back this postseason but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him if it doesn't happen.

[Pelicanidae]

Sounds to me like a kid who's hearing from those around him to protect himself and his long-term future in spite of what he wants in the short-term. His quotes were discouraging, but if you dig down it's understandable and makes sense from all angles.

I'd love to see him come back this postseason but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him if it doesn't happen.

My opinion on Zion is very simple, and in line with yours here.

The fact is that in the small sample size we have of him since drafting, Zion is one of the three most impactful players in Pelicans history. This season alone proves it - when he plays, we're a top 3 seed, when he doesn't, we're scrabbling for a play-in spot. When he plays, our offense is top 8. When he doesn't, it's bottom 5.

Now, if another team comes along and offers you Luka for him then you have to take that very seriously but since we know that's not going to happen, the fact of his impact when he plays remains, and we can't un offer him the contract he signed. So I'm on board the Zion train until he either retires early due to injury or gets moved.

As long as he's a Pelican, I'm behind him, because I know what he can do when he plays is special.

[RobertM320]

The "I don't feel like Zion/BI" is a bad look. I get that behind that is "there's a higher risk of injury if I go out right now" but man.....just say that. Because that is like "ok, cool, man. Yeah. Take it easy. Don't risk any long term career stuff" whereas the "I just don't feel like me" sounds more like "I'm not 100% but there's no big risk....I just won't play unless I'm 100%" and there's a huge problem with that last one. I get it.....or at least I think I do....but it's a bad look.

But that's actually NOT what he's saying. He's clearly saying that physically he's 100%, but that mentally he still doesn't trust the hamstring, which could actually cause him to be out of position or slow to react because he hesitates.

[As I See It]

My opinion on Zion is very simple, and in line with yours here.

The fact is that in the small sample size we have of him since drafting, Zion is one of the three most impactful players in Pelicans history. This season alone proves it - when he plays, we're a top 3 seed, when he doesn't, we're scrabbling for a play-in spot. When he plays, our offense is top 8. When he doesn't, it's bottom 5.

Now, if another team comes along and offers you Luka for him then you have to take that very seriously but since we know that's not going to happen, the fact of his impact when he plays remains, and we can't un offer him the contract he signed. So I'm on board the Zion train until he either retires early due to injury or gets moved.

As long as he's a Pelican, I'm behind him, because I know what he can do when he plays is special.

Not looking to war with you, but truly the most poignant phase in your post is your...

"when he plays"

Problem is, dae, for four years running, he has sat more than he has played. That's not me hating on him....that's an unfortunate truth. You're the analytics guy, I'm not, but the numbers support this, right?

I pray that next year he plays 70+ games without debilitating injury and shuts me up. If Vegas put odds on it even they will probably say, "AISI will still be yapping unless the good Lord calls him home."

[Pelicanidae]

Not looking to war with you, but truly the most poignant phase in your post is your...

"when he plays"

Problem is, dae, for four years running, he has sat more than he has played. That's not me hating on him....that's an unfortunate truth.

Sure, but the thing is - we're all aware of that.

People get irritated by the constant reminder of it because they usually even include it in their own posts and then someone comes along to tell them that he misses games as if they were born yesterday and didn't know.

Yes, I know that Zion's games missed are an important factor in the calculation I was outlining. Which is why I mentioned it in my own post three times. So if the primary point of your post is to remind me that he misses games, then it just starts to feel like hate.

Imagine how quick you'd accuse me of hate if someone pointed out that Ingram misses 30-40% of games every season and I instantly replied to it saying ''Yes, you see, this is truly the most poignant point about Ingram's game - no matter how good he is, he misses 40% of the season every year! I would love to imagine next year he plays 82 and proves me wrong, but alas! That's not me hating . . . [dramatic pause] . . . that's the unfortunate truth.''

Starts to feel less like a sad reflection on reality and more like I'm just gloating, no?

[Pelicanidae]

I would also note that as much as I would also love Zion to be a 75 game a year guy, that's not the norm for superstars in the NBA anymore anyway.

If we're worried about Zion's injury risk (which is a fair concern, for obvious reasons) and want to mitigate it, I'd just put him on the Kawhi Leonard plan.

Kawhi has a degenerative muscle issue in his hamstring, it's been a problem for years and by some estimations it's part of why he wanted out from the Spurs. Since leaving San Antonio, he has missed 1 full season and at least 22 games in every single other season. He's played 60 games once since 2016-17. He is assumed out of all back to backs by default.

Just put Zion on that. If he can give me a stable 55 games a year, I'll take it. Give him b2bs off, rest him every now and again by default, etc. Just do what needs to be done to keep him healthy for the playoffs each year.

Edit:

For supporting my point that superstars don't generally play 75+ games a year anymore anyway, here's the games played for top stars this year:

Kawhi: 52
Lebron: 55
Curry: 56
Luka: 66
Embiid: 66
Jokic: 69 (though he's unusual, he's played at least 70 games every other season of his career)
SGA: 68
Butler: 64
Harden: 58
Lillard: 58

So yeah, just give me 55.

[neworleanshoo]

My opinion on Zion is very simple, and in line with yours here.

The fact is that in the small sample size we have of him since drafting, Zion is one of the three most impactful players in Pelicans history. This season alone proves it - when he plays, we're a top 3 seed, when he doesn't, we're scrabbling for a play-in spot. When he plays, our offense is top 8. When he doesn't, it's bottom 5.

Now, if another team comes along and offers you Luka for him then you have to take that very seriously but since we know that's not going to happen, the fact of his impact when he plays remains, and we can't un offer him the contract he signed. So I'm on board the Zion train until he either retires early due to injury or gets moved.

As long as he's a Pelican, I'm behind him, because I know what he can do when he plays is special.

Absolutely right. In order to have be legit championship contender, we need an elite player. Those are impossibly hard to come by - especially for poor, small market franchises. He's a risk - but he's well worth it.

[msusousaphone]

I would also note that as much as I would also love Zion to be a 75 game a year guy, that's not the norm for superstars in the NBA anymore anyway.

If we're worried about Zion's injury risk (which is a fair concern, for obvious reasons) and want to mitigate it, I'd just put him on the Kawhi Leonard plan.

Kawhi has a degenerative muscle issue in his hamstring, it's been a problem for years and by some estimations it's part of why he wanted out from the Spurs. Since leaving San Antonio, he has missed 1 full season and at least 22 games in every single other season. He's played 60 games once since 2016-17. He is assumed out of all back to backs by default.

Just put Zion on that. If he can give me a stable 55 games a year, I'll take it. Give him b2bs off, rest him every now and again by default, etc. Just do what needs to be done to keep him healthy for the playoffs each year.

Edit:

For supporting my point that superstars don't generally play 75+ games a year anymore anyway, here's the games played for top stars this year:

Kawhi: 52
Lebron: 55
Curry: 56
Luka: 66
Embiid: 66
Jokic: 69 (though he's unusual, he's played at least 70 games every other season of his career)
SGA: 68
Butler: 64
Harden: 58
Lillard: 58

So yeah, just give me 55.

Yes absolutely.

Because the only thing I would disagree with (nitpicking) from an earlier post you made is that we're scrambling for the playin spot also because of those BI missed games. So I would say we're a top 3 team with Zion and BI. A top 6 team without Zion. A lottery team without Zion and BI.

Tbf, I think most great teams fit this mindset missing their top two guys.