Jose was 23 when we signed him. Would be interesting to see if you said the same thing last year prior to the break out (not saying Plowden is an NBA guy, but your reasoning is flawed)Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
 |
| . |
|
Jose was 23 when we signed him. Would be interesting to see if you said the same thing last year prior to the break out (not saying Plowden is an NBA guy, but your reasoning is flawed)
You can always find outliers to make the argument you want to make. Sure, 2 or 3 guys came out of nowhere in summer league last year. You know what that means? 2 or 3 HUNDRED, became nothing.
Its disingenuous to make arguments like that -- to point to the outliers and say, "If this person did it, then so will that person"
If you want to say that John Butler or Plowden has a 1 percent chance to ever do anything meaningful in the NBA (as opposed to zero), then fine. But that is the argument -- does Plowden have a 0 percent chance or a 1 percent chance to matter? And I cant imagine the point of having a heated discussion about that, but such is late July in the offseason
@mcnamara247
What's the great thing? We got a guy out of 300 that doesn't become nothing
I would bank on Jose having a career not too far off of FVV
Major Alpha dog vibes combined with a lot of actual Basketball skill
Last edited by AusPel; 07-22-2022 at 12:11 PM.
Yeah, but realism doesn't have to have an edge. I wouldn't say Graham "stinks" or that "nobody" would ever amount to anything. Graham definitely regressed but he could have been injured and Jose came out of nowhere and eventually amounted to something. What you're saying is basically right, but it could be expressed more gently without losing any insight.
Who is having a heated discussion? These guys are on E-10 deals who cares whether they're 18 or 24
I will go way, way under on my expectations for Jose
But that’s what makes it fun. He might become FVV. 99 percent of the time, he won’t though and the poster who wants to be realistic shouldn’t be railed on so much IMO
Don’t forget, the narrative this time last year was that Naji was Josh Hart (or better!) at 1/10th the cost. Not a couple of people saying that…the majority
And that’s fine. Have hope. Hope your team found the diamond in the rough. But most likely they haven’t and Alvarado will just be another guy we fondly remember 10 years from now for having a few shining moments
And that’s fine too
I myself, thought Naji could give us 70% of Hart at the fraction of the cost.
Boy, was I wrong
I'm inclined to think Alvarado will be a rotation guy on a playoff team
Will I be horribly wrong again?
Stay tuned to the same Bat time, same Bat channel
Last edited by AusPel; 07-22-2022 at 01:51 PM.
Wow MM, forgot about that one. I thought everyone was crazy for thinking Naji was something. He's a fine 12th-15th guy who can maybe give you decent spot minutes with injuries on the roster. Late season basketball in lost seasons really convinces fans of some wild stuff.
He's a great vibes guy, everyone seems to love him and Willy.
Welcome to be here
A lot of the joy of fandom is hope. I get it. I bet that if you created a search for 'NAW for MIP' on this board, you would get a lot of hits. Fans want to take positive small sample sizes and extrapolate them. Small negative sample sizes - throw those away.
Thats what being a fan is. And that is fine. My only pushback is that when someone comes in and wants to talk most likely or most realistic outcomes, they shouldnt be thrown out into the cold for having that take. I would bet a lot of money Plowden wont be anything, but if you want to dream, go for it. Just dont act like I am a pessimist when I say Plowden wont be anything. I think that is a fair trade off
As for Alvarado, I would set the over/under for his career impact around TJ McConnell and I would bet the under, slightly
Imma take somewhere between TJ floor and JJ Barea ceiling
JJ is a weird ceiling because he is basically offense only. I think the ceiling comp is Pat Bev. If he could become a 5th starter, sometimes finisher, who helps with the culture, that is a MASSIVE win.
We have to remember Jose came in with his gas tank full at the end of the year while everyone else was just kind of gliding along. Its a totally different thing to impact games 82 times a year, year after year, with just energy and efforts (as opposed to effort plus skill).
Guys who try to play like that all year get banged up and are in and out of the lineup, get out of rhythm and because they are low usage, often lose their regular role in the rotation when they go through slumps. I think Jose's most likely outcome is a 3rd PG, but if the offensive skills continue to develop and become consistent, I could see a Pat Bev ceiling. Still, I'd bet on Kira having the better career
Never one to be content (or realistic?)...I fully expect Herb to take a huge leap offensively and become Pels' main ball handler by mid-season. Afraid I'm not so optimistic on the future of Jose (or Val) ...but ya never know.
I get the mindset of never being content on something you can improve or control or influence. You have no way of impacting Herbs development, though.
Always been an odd little thing to me. I remember people saying things like “well, dude, I don’t just settle for having a mediocre team”
And I have always thought, “well, dude, you have no choice in that matter. What’s gonna happen is gonna happen, completely regardless of you and your desires”
OK...I'll just have to be content to leave it at... "expect". BTW: I was a "Sochan guy"...but I guess I was wrong on that one. Probably a whole lot easier to find a "Sochan" on down the road...than to find a "DD".
Last edited by The Dud; 07-22-2022 at 05:41 PM.
Depends what Sochan becomes. I don’t think it’s impossible for him to become a bigger Anonoby, and if he is that, then that is really hard to find.
FVV is a top 60 player, so if Alvarado ever hit that kind of level I'd be pretty surprised honestly.
Basketball.
Alvarado is legit, he has "it". When he is on the floor he is a difference maker, provides a spark. Expect him to have a good NBA career.
Did you see Alvarado in the Worlds?
Man's was looking like the best player on the floor
Coupled with that dog he has in him
Hooboy
I have very little doubt that he'll be an NBA player for years to come, and will probably spend several of those years as a very solid rotation player even on good teams. But there's a huge difference between that and being like, the 55th best player in the NBA or similar. Not impossible and if it does happen I'll be very pleased, but I just wouldn't bet on it.
Can we get the players Twitter updated on the main page? We still seeing Ian Clark and Eldridge Payton haha
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
People thought Naji was Josh Hart at a fraction of the cost because he actually produced at that level. It wasn't based on hopes and dreams. Also Josh Hart straight up got better as a player last year. Which can happen at age 26.
But of course people with narratives to prove will jump in the second he hits a trough.
Growth doesn't happen in a straight line. He's still a young 24 year old, long 6'7" player that can handle, play defense, and playmake enough. Also can provide a lot of intangibles you want from a bench player.
But of course when he plays well the talk will return to chirps again. At the very least he is tradeable unlike that "veteran" sitting on the bench.
Now if Jose happens to have a few bad games I'll just avoid this place as per the usual. It'll be rinse repeat.
Last edited by luckyman; 07-24-2022 at 09:21 PM.
Naji may be someone who was hurt a little by summer league. He got to handle the ball more and became a bit of a ballhog. Once he got a taste of that, it seemed he tried to be more involved in the offense in the regular season rather than just doing all the dirty things. He has value as a defender, but needs to learn when to stop forcing terrible shots. He shot 20% from 3, but kept shooting.
And when he barely plays/doesnt play and washes away into irrelevance, I am sure you will come on here and say "Yeah, I was wrong about that one. I guess end of season flukes happen. Quite often, actually. I will learn to be more realistic the next time and wait for a larger sample size"
Positive you will say that, because unlike everyone else, you admit when you are wrong. Because you are always the bigger person.
Don't get me wrong, I love Naji on this team. Great 13th-15th player, doesn't seem to complain about minutes, loves his teammates, and is a good size to defend if we have bad injury luck. And sure, maybe he can be a the last guy in a playoff rotation if the shot comes around and if he's in the right situation. I personally dont see that.
In terms of the Hart-Marshall comparison, Hart does 1 thing at a truly elite level for his size, rebound. Naji is a B-, C+ at a bunch of stuff. Also, I think a lot of that comparison came from Pels fans thinking Hart is/was a really good defender. He's decent, but that's it. Pre-Herb, he was often tasked with guarding the best wing. He gives 110% effort too so I think people extrapolated that to him being a really good defender.
Naji is the same, works his ****** off, pesters the other teams perimeter player and seems like he's better at defense that he is in reality. This isn't a slight at either guy, I like both of them on and off the court. I think fans (not just Pels fans) have rose colored glasses when watching guys who try hard but are only average to slightly above average on D
There are currently 17 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 17 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote