oooh thank youOriginally Posted by Taker597
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oooh thank you
FWIW - Zach Lowe says it is a no brainer for the Pels to trade Ingram and a bunch of picks if they can get KD. A no brainer
Usually a guy the fan base respects and doesn’t think hates the Pels. Curious if that remains after that statement
@mcnamara247
I disagree about the ?no brainer?. part. Of course BI isn?t the player that KD is NOW but BI is on an upward trajectory and can be a very good/great complementary piece for a much longer time. KD has 2 maybe 3 years left while BI is just entering his prime. If griff wants to push his chips in for a title run then yeah BI is getting traded if that?s what it takes to get the deal done. But I wouldn?t say ?no brainer?.
I respect Zach but I disagree with him on this one.
If they were near the same age, I would agree completely. However, given the age difference and KD's injury history of late, I disagree.
I think it’s a no brainer if the whole point is to maximize your chance to win a title
Personally, I don’t buy into that but some do. When Pels fans argue that they would rather have the guy who loves being here and reps the city the way they prefer, etc. then I think their argument holds up
When people argue the pure on the court basketball side, I think they are stretching it. Because even if I concede that BI will be better than KD in 4 years, I think that gap is made up by other guys having more usage than they would in the BI universe.
I wouldn’t do it because I value rooting for guys who are all in on the team, but if I had to pick the path that was most likely to lead to a title and even most wins and playoff wins over the next 4 years, it is a no brainer IMO
He was also a guy who said trading for CJ didn't make any sense for the Pelicans.
I like Lowe okay (I also don't subscribe to the whole "This guy hates New Orleans!" bit, but that's another story). I didn't agree with him on CJ, and I don't agree with him on this one.
EDIT: Just looked back on his CJ comments, he said he "liked it, didn't love it" and called it "Win now". I think he mischaracterized the move as "win now", but he was a little more fair than I remembered. I still disagree that trading Brandon Ingram + other assets for KD is a "no-brainer"
Last edited by DarkHornet; 07-05-2022 at 11:15 AM.
I love KD, the talented player. However, is there a concern that, even if he came here with both BI and Zion staying, that it now becomes his team and they defer to him too much. Does that stunt the growth of the young players that remain? Maybe not an issue, but the team seems to really seem to work together now. Does a star like Durant throw that into chaos? I get why we would go all in for a year or two of a run, but just wondering what the long-term affects could be.
Nobody knows the future. My only take on all this is that when people debate this passionately and call the other side idiots, it is often that they are actually discussing two different things. Happens all the time, in sports most notably it is when they think they are debating GOAT and one side is debating best career and the other is saying best player at peak
Anyway, it’s a solid debate. Really, your answer just reflects what you prioritize most
I worry about this with a lot of high usage players. KD and Steph are the two exceptions. I don’t think there would anything that makes KD happier than if Zion was cooking and he got to play off ball, only to take the shot if needed. KD is there to finish plays or bail you out at end of the clock. He has been heavy on ball when he has had to be but if you watch those few games when Kyrie and Harden actually played, he was so happy to be off ball.
That, plus having a bullseye on your back every single game. Literally, every one. I actually think that helps with Zion and others growth short term and then as KD declines long term, Zion and others usage goes up and up and they are ready for it because they played in high stress games literally every night
The idea of trading Ingram plus first round picks for Durant given his age and diminished skills is absurd and with lack of long term vision. Ingram may not be KD but he is young and can develop into a "similar" player. He probably won't be KD but he has game that should warrant keeping for the long term. And throw in first round picks? Why?
Contributor
I somewhat agree with this, though I have major questions about Durant's ability to hold up the next two years, much less four years. He would be 37-38 at that point and the guy hasn't exactly been the poster boy for clean health the last three seasons. At his age I would expect it to continue going down hill, not up hill.
BUT with all that said, a lot of this discussion centers around how good they would be next season, or the season after that, or for the next few years with Durant. Not even discussion takes place with the opposite, rather than the most wins and playoff wind the next 4 years, what does trading for Durant do for the next four years after that? Six years? Ten years? You could potentially look at raising your ceiling moderately for the next four years, but considerably lowering it for the distant future after that.
My personal opinion is Durant, with this most recent history, far from guarantees you anything in the present if you trade for him, but could potentially really hamper your future. Go back to a freshly 30 Durant, obviously. Recent 34 Durant given all we know about him? I'm good. I'll take my chances and ride with the current group of guys.
I think a big disconnect with some people is that some think the gap between the 3rd best player in the world and the 23rd is big. Others think it is HUGE
I am in the latter camp. I think the gap between 3 and 23 is as big as 23 and 123 when it comes to the playoffs. And you saw this with Kawhi vs Derozen. I think a lot of people think you can cobble together other players and get the same or better out of the 23rd best player plus role players, and I think you can in the regular season. In the playoffs, the team with the best player wins 9 out of 10 times. And BI will never become THAT. Zion might but if he does, he won’t for 3 or 4 years and in the meantime you can have KD be that before handing it over to Zion
To win a title.
That being said, I don’t want to trade BI. But the reasoning is obvious
I just disagree. To me, this would be like saying you wouldn’t trade Garland for Curry because of age and one day Garland could develop into a similar player as Curry.
90 percent of an all time great still
Leaves a MASSIVE gap. Similar to saying you think a guy could be 70 percent of Ingram. That’s how I think of it. That ten percent less of an all time great is the difference between almost always having the best guy in a series and never having him
Maybe a straight up trade but multiple first round picks. If I am the Nets I am saying yes to that.
The problem is the age. There are very few NBA players still great 34 and up. I’m not willing to take that chance on a dude with injury issues the last three years.
And there it is, what I have been saying for the last few days. Shams reporting Nets are preparing to go into season with Kyrie and KD. Put $200 on KDs next minutes being with the Nets at 10 to 1. Time to go buy some more Kira rookie cards!!! Lol
I disagree because Steph isn't as much of a flight risk as easymoney
You act like Ingram is the picture of health and a guaranteed 70 games a year. Only thing that matters is if he is healthy when the playoffs come and I think he will be far more times than not. But again, I wouldn’t do it. I just think some arguments as to why are far more sound than others
Again, I don’t think this is a solid argument and is a fear because of the past. But you can’t both say we have built a culture here and have an amazing leader for a HC, etc and also fear guys will want to flee.
I understand KDs desire to leave each individual situation and don’t see him as much of a drama queen as most. If he was excited to come here, I don’t think he would make waves but again, I don’t know the future. I just think he gets a bit of a bad rap from a character perspective
I think it is all fascinating from a basketball point of view and Pels fan point of view. In most cases I would say dump assets to get a player like KD to chase a title. As fans we all want to win a title but with the Pels I just want to us to build a winning basketball culture. I would prefer (hypothetically if we can keep everyone) to build a winning culture with the players that we have that can last a decade vs. getting one championship (through KD trade) and then it all falls apart (perhaps it wouldn't). I just really love the young energy and what it is brining to the city and state from a basketball perspective. If KD was a little younger and we could have a core of Zion, CJ, and KD for 5 years are more I would be all for it (but that is not the case).
Here’s a fun hypothetical. Imagine you can look into the future with the “no KD trade” universe. What is the WORST outcome that you would still say after peering into that future that you still would say “I still don’t wanna trade for KD”
Like, let’s say you can peek into 2028 and the last 6 years have been like the Jazz last 6 years. A ton of wins. Even got a top seed. But only a few playoffs series wins, no WCF and now you are trading Zion and BI to reload
In this hypothetical you have no idea how the KD trade universe plays out. Only the no trade universe. What is the worst it could be where you still don’t want to trade for KD?
Just jumping in to mention how awful a nickname ''Easy Money Sniper'' is. The fact that Durant asked people specifically not to use ''Slim Reaper'' because he prefers easymoneysniper is insane. Awful stuff.
Basketball.
That is a very good hypothetical and potentially a reality (I hope not though). I think we need to do a little better than the Jazz to sustain a long winning culture that will also attract free agents. With the Pels history I would still take what the Jazz have had to build the fan base. With that being said, if all we could be is the Jazz then I probably do the KD trade. Ultimately, if I was the GM I'm just rolling with our current roster though.
You are assuming Ingram and multiple first round picks are a fair price. I don't see that "universe"
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