January 19th - New Orleans Pelicans @ Utah Jazz - 5-7

[JJackisangry]

We are better than our record suggests. We win that game against Indy and we probably beat Charlotte and OKC. Our confidence was sky high at that point. It was a colossal blunder by Stan and our boys and we are back where we were under Gentry. We have no idea how to win a game. We have no idea how to close out games. Having a mismatched court of jesters in the backcourt doesn’t do us any good (harsh on Bled to be fair- he is fine). Part of growing as a team is learning how to initiate an offense and make sure everyone is involved. When we’ve done that, we have competed. When we haven’t, we are outmatched every time. The ball has to move and we need players that recognize that. Too many combo guards and not enough playmaking.

[Pelicanidae]

They really made a highlight video

Ball fans are honestly the most incredibly brainwashed group of basketball fans ever. They're just as bad, if not worse, than Kobe stans. Which is incredible given that - at the very least - Kobe was noteworthy and was a winner. Lonzo has done nothing, and is largely terrible, and has media-circused his way into having millions of die-hard fanboys. It's honestly impressive, in a way.

That's why it's worth doing the highlight videos and stuff. He gets 5 points, he goes 0/6 from 3, he looks uninterested on defense? Doesn't matter, make the video: the stans will bring you 500k views.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Ball fans are honestly the most incredibly brainwashed group of basketball fans ever. They're just as bad, if not worse, than Kobe stans. Which is incredible given that - at the very least - Kobe was noteworthy and was a winner. Lonzo has done nothing, and is largely terrible, and has media-circused his way into having millions of die-hard fanboys. It's honestly impressive, in a way.

That's why it's worth doing the highlight videos and stuff. He gets 5 points, he goes 0/6 from 3, he looks uninterested on defense? Doesn't matter, make the video: the stans will bring you 500k views.

Worse than Jimmer fans you think?

[Pelicanidae]

Worse than Jimmer fans you think?

Hard for me to say. I was watching basketball early in Jimmer's career, but I wasn't super intense with it, so a lot of the extra-stuff passed me by. Someone else can input on that.

[PELICANSFAN]

That's why it's worth doing the highlight videos and stuff. He gets 5 points, he goes 0/6 from 3, he looks uninterested on defense?.

Your comments about his offense are spot on but you are completely off base about his defense. His defense was actually good in that game. So, at least be fair about the comments instead of posting that he looked uninterested.

[AusPel]

Your comments about his offense are spot on but you are completely off base about his defense. His defense was actually good in that game. So, at least be fair about the comments instead of posting that he looked uninterested.

I'll agree with that. 3 steals and a bunch of deflections

Zo is fine in small bunches, like 15ish minutes a night. But when he starts getting 30+ minutes is when it becomes painful

[Pelicanidae]

Your comments about his offense are spot on but you are completely off base about his defense. His defense was actually good in that game. So, at least be fair about the comments instead of posting that he looked uninterested.

I disagree. He had a few good defensive plays, yes, but there were also wide stretches of the game where he looked unfocused and uninterested. I know his defense can be good, he's done it before and when he really focuses and locks in he's a very capable wing defender, a strong plus. Last night had moments of that, but also moments of complete disinterest.

[PELICANSFAN]

I disagree. He had a few good defensive plays, yes, but there were also wide stretches of the game where he looked unfocused and uninterested. I know his defense can be good, he's done it before and when he really focuses and locks in he's a very capable wing defender, a strong plus. Last night had moments of that, but also moments of complete disinterest.

Disagree. He was one of the few who played solid defense most of his time on the court last night.

[As I See It]

Disagree. He was one of the few who played solid defense most of his time on the court last night.

That's how I see it too.

The guy who plays no defense is our defensive specialist, Eric Bledsoe. He's been pitiful.

[6warddude]

lonzo is our best defensive guard on the team...or best back court player on the team...deflections,, contested shots,, steals and other lil things i think lonzo is better at also......now if someone would post his defensive stats,,it might prove this....

another reason why bledsoe and naw should be the starting back court and let lonzo come off the bench and just play defense...

[AusPel]

lonzo is our best defensive guard on the team...or best back court player on the team...deflections,, contested shots,, steals and other lil things i think lonzo is better at also......now if someone would post his defensive stats,,it might prove this....

another reason why bledsoe and naw should be the starting back court and let lonzo come off the bench and just play defense...

Zo is very nice on D, and I'd really like him at low cost on a few mil a year in role player minutes

But I don't think that's feasible

Because you have to give him a huge QO

[6warddude]

Zo is very nice on D, and I'd really like him at low cost on a few mil a year in role player minutes

But I don't think that's feasible

Because you have to give him a huge QO

im down for trading lonzo...ill trade him for a playable backup 4.....naw should be starting and lonzo coming off the bench to play defense and give whatever he can on offense....

[luckyman]

Christian Clark isolated some Jazz possessions that highlight the over helping. And unfortunately, Zion is one of the worst offenders and still looks completely lost off-ball.

On one possession, Zion is pretty much standing under the goal when his main responsibility is Niang in the corner. Then his reaction is way too slow and it just snowballs from there.

How does that happen 13 games in with practice pretty much between every game?? Zion isn't the only one who does this.

This is a coaching issue.

[luckyman]

Here is a second clip where Zion over helps with 2 feet in the paint. Which means he abandons Niang in the corner...again. Does not anticipate a pass to the corner at all.

[Pelicanidae]

I mentioned his overhelp earlier in the thread as well. As you say, he's not the only one, but he does do it a lot.

It's an issue team-wide. On one hand, helping is definitely good and of course if you're a heavy rim-protection team you need it. But you simply cannot help that much, particularly off good shooters, and especially not that early. And if on occasion you do, the recovery is paramount.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Its a coaching issue only if you think that telling a guy to do X means he will do X moving forward.

You wouldn't believe how often a player does something despite being told the exact opposite by his coach over and over again. These guys aren't players on 2K that you can control. They are human beings with their own habits and tendencies and simply telling them something or coaching them to do something a certain way does not automatically make it so. It takes years to break habits and years to create new ones. Why its always funny to me that fans think a player will just change instantly when a new coach comes in or when they say things like "He will get better because he will have Drew Brees to learn from and watch every day" - meanwhile, how many guys have sat behind Brees for the last 13 years and how many actually got better?

When your boss speaks to the office on how to do something, does everyone in the office start doing it that way and doing it well? Or when you have a top salesman in a group, does everyone learn from him and boost their sales?

People are habits and tendencies and simply telling them something or showing them something does not make some light switch come on that now creates new habits and tendencies. It takes years

[PELICANSFAN]

Christian Clark isolated some Jazz possessions that highlight the over helping. And unfortunately, Zion is one of the worst offenders and still looks completely lost off-ball.

On one possession, Zion is pretty much standing under the goal when his main responsibility is Niang in the corner. Then his reaction is way too slow and it just snowballs from there.

How does that happen 13 games in with practice pretty much between every game?? Zion isn't the only one who does this.

This is a coaching issue.

It is clearly a coaching issue and SVG has almost admitted as much. His philosophy is to crowd the paint. As such, you see many of our players dropping back to the edge of the paint on defense. That is one of the reasons we are so terrible at defending the 3. That has been SVGs style in the past as well.

[MichaelMcNamara]

And you can have that philosophy but execute it much better. You don't have to be where Zion is on these examples. Weakside guys are taught to have a max of one foot in the paint, and usually one in but both just barely out of it. Zion is a good 4-6 feet from where I guarantee SVG would place him if he could control him with a remote. It takes time

[DroopyDawg]

Its not a coaching issue when a player closes out recklessly and jumps at a pump fake... resulting in an open dunk. You're taught how to close out on shooters in high school. I hate when coaches are blamed for fundamental issues that NBA players should have learned when they were learning how to play basketball. Makes no damn sense.

[Pelicanidae]

And you can have that philosophy but execute it much better. You don't have to be where Zion is on these examples. Weakside guys are taught to have a max of one foot in the paint, and usually one in but both just barely out of it. Zion is a good 4-6 feet from where I guarantee SVG would place him if he could control him with a remote. It takes time

Yep, this is it.

The principle is one that Zion is sticking to in these clips, and the principle is a sound one, but there's a reason we call it overhelp. He's too far over and he recovers slightly too late. Slightly is a million years too long in the NBA: things move too quickly.

These are, as Mac says, the kind of things that take time and familiarity.

[luckyman]

It's a coaching issue when you have access to your players pretty much 24/7. And you players have access to basketball 24/7. This isn't high school or college. You have time to drill drill drill (physically, verbally, video room).

Plus, this isn't game 1, or game 5. We are even past game 10 + pre-season + training camp.

There is simply no excuse for your players to be that lost on defense at this point in time on that very simple concept. If you don't want your players to do that, either you are communicating badly or the consequences for screwing up are light.

[As I See It]

Can someone name another team in the NBA that Lonzo Ball would/could start for?

I can't.