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Looking at who was drafted after him, it's actually a fairly weak draft class.
I always liked Reddish and he's easily the best replacement.
Herro the only other guy you could clamour for
Cam Johnson has a good skill also
Clarke is really good, but that horrible jumper makes me say nup
Other guys doing well - Okpala, Sekou, Thybulle
I really liked the look of Okeke in College
I did like Rui a lot too
Last edited by AusPel; 12-26-2020 at 01:12 PM.
I still fervently believe Hayes will be an above average baller; he's just so raw...so unrefined, right now. The question is will he be a Pelican when it kicks in for him.
ExactlyOriginally Posted by As I See It
But if you don't want to invest 5+ development years into him before you see a return, who should you have taken?
I know...we are in a pickle with him. If we think Lonzo's second contract is an issue this year (and it is), that situation will be small beans compared with the decision we will have to make in JAX's contract year. That's why I said early on he needs court time in Erie. It's water under the bridge, but last year was an absolute 'nothing year' for JAX. No one to learn from...no one to coach him.
Last edited by As I See It; 12-26-2020 at 01:44 PM.
Clarke was clearly better. No idea what he did to his jumper in the last few months because the form has completely changed from last year and it's awful now. All the progress undone, he looks like he did back at San Diego. Tragic.
That said, I still take Hayes at that spot in a re-draft. That doesn't mean everyone who came after him still would; for example, I had Culver top 5 and would obviously change that now, and slide Herro up, but taking him around 7 or 8 is still where I feel very comfortable in that draft and I still think he's going to be a very good player in time.
Obviously if your concern is that he'll be elsewhere by then, fine, but he's here now and the question is whether he has a road to NBA success and he does.
Basketball.
Clarke went from this (40s)
to this
This reworked jump shot of Brandon Clarke �� pic.twitter.com/e13RmkkZu2
— Fastbreak Breakfast (@fastbreakbreak) December 24, 2020
Disgusting stuff
It's so disgusting. Last year, in the NBA, he shot 36% on 1.1 per game, and 76% from the FT line. It wasn't big volume, but this was a guy who went a grand total of 6/24 in his 3 year college career suddenly finding his range, using his outlier touch, and going 23/64 in his first NBA season. Great signs.
Then he reworks his shot during the short offseason and comes back looking like Freshman college Clarke from 3. Hideous stuff. Whoever his shooting coach is needs to be thrown in a river.
The problem has always been the lack of patience from the fanbase. I'm not worried yet. If he still looks like beginning of the season Hayes by the end of the season, then I'll worry.
It's weird because Hayes showed so much progress between the start of last season and the end, but people seem to forget that when evaluating him. We knew he had a long way to go before he was ''done'' because he was very late to basketball compared to a lot of other guys his age, but I think the problem is that people see guys like Herro having really numerically impressive rookie seasons and they forget that someone like Herro was a big-minute high school player who then played over 1200 minutes in college. Hayes was 6'0 as a HS freshman and had a huge growth spurt during a time when his major focus was American Football, and then came off the bench in college and played a little over half the college minutes. Of course he's not at the same spot in his development.
The thing with project players, is that the drafting team invariably gets impatient after a few years and decides to trade
Well, ideally you’d like the 8th overall pick to be playable by now. Precious Achiuwa was also a one-and-done freshman big taken 12 spots later in this draft than Jax was last year and he already looks to be ready to play substantial minutes for a contending Heat team. I’m sure he’ll have some growing pains and foul a lot, but he looks ready to play back up minutes and contribute. That’s where you hope Jax would be at least by now as a top ten pick. Maybe he’ll get there later in the season.
JAXSON was lost last year and, honestly, there's nothing he's done to suggest he's any more ready this year, at this point. If this wasn't the case, SVG would have placed him prominently in the rotation already? I mean, it's not like there's tons of talent ahead of him.
Just because someone's got a driver's license and can drive dad's car in the neighborhood doesn't mean he's ready to drive in the INDY 500.
I'll never suggest that JAX lacks the physical talent to be a beast in the NBA, but his innate intelligence (basketball IQ) needs to improve exponentially just for him to be adequate. While he remains one of three on my 'Untouchable's List', I am wavering.
Contributor
Really feel as though we've got to be patient with Jax. If I remember correctly isn't he still somewhat new to basketball? His ceiling/ potential is still pretty high, and going against two well coached defensive teams where even Zion struggled offensively in certain situations can make him look even worse. You have to continue to play him for growth and evaluation purposes Jaxson will be as good as he wants to be, now Melli is a completely different story imo.
Precious is also 21 years old and has good size and strength at 6'8 225. He's much more physically ready when you compare him to Hayes. We have to accept that the team is in a marathon with Hayes as his floor is not going to be anywhere near some of the players who are contributing early on in their careers. If Hayes ever reach his potential, he'll be easily better and impactful. The question is whether he reaches it. The team feels good enough about his development to draft him knowing they could have drafted several other players who could have been contributors from day 1. I don't think Langdon and Griffin are regretting this pick even to this day. Patience is a hard thing to have in pro sports.
Agreed. Precious is a good bit older than Jax, more physically built, and also you have to consider team context. Literally all the Heat ask Precious to do is screen, run in straight lines, dunk, and rebound. He has zero decision making responsibility, and is not even expected to be a particularly capable passer. Also not asked to be a defender of multiple complex actions, or switch.
The Heat can do this because they have a number of high level on-ball decision makers ready to go: veterans, with years of experience doing that specific job, guys like Dragic and Butler, who are experts at this. Consider the on-ball decision makers we have by comparison, and the responsibilities that Jax has had at times compared to Precious. For example, that high-light play where Jax played the two man game with Redick before turning it into a big-to-big feed to a cutting Zion from Game 1: that's a play you simply could not ask for from Precious, whereas Hayes executed it beautifully. Of course Jax will also have more mistakes because of the lesser experience and the higher responsibility, but that's just the cost of doing business in these circumstances.
i been standing on 22/23 season for hayes to have his head on right and thats why im praying that the team can find a better backup center and PF somehow this season.....ingram has put griff and co. on notice that he dont intend on missing the playoffs again.....we know zion will not take missing the playoffs for to much longer.....we know the talking heads will start the zion to a big market soon if we dont start making the playoffs.....
we just cant be playing around with hayes and hoping he turn it around this season....we need a better backup center now....
I loved the trade back last year and was really happy that Hayes was available at #8. He was the guy I wanted when the trade was announced and I still feel like it will prove to be a good choice. Granted, he still has a lot of development to go, but I never expected him to be "the guy" and always felt like he would take some time to come into his own. The addition of Adams should accelerate his development IMO due to Adams' knowledge of defense, positioning, anticipation, etc. that Hayes should be able to incorporate into his game as well. Hayes will never be the massive presence in the lane that Adams is, but playing with him in practice should show how important it is to get in the weight room and improve in strength. I am still high on Hayes, but I am doubly glad that someone like Adams will get the bulk of the minutes.
I was hoping that the Pelicans could get into the Harden trade and possibly take on Jarrett Allen in the deal. He just has a year left on his deal, so that would provide a solid backup this year and flexibility for next year.
I wasn’t fired up about Hayes, I wanted Reddish but I do see the upside though. If he could learn to play solid defense and hit the midrange jumper, he could be a better version of Cappella. Let’s at least give the guy another year to see what he can learn from Adams.
Who is "we"? Hayes is fine where he is. Matter of fact both he and NAW need to be getting regular minutes in a 9 or 10 man rotation.
Year 2 is time to really get that learning curve going.
The major whiff here is going after Melli in place of Christian Wood. Just an awful mistake.
We kept Okafor rather than Woods.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
I?m all in on Griff and Langdon.
I think Griff does a lot of Hannibal Lector peacock stuff and draft night 2019 at the time I would have went a different direction, but they?ve gained a fan in me with no regrets. Just trust. I like Jaxson. I think he?s a winner.. I think his ceiling is Robert Parrish. Just needs more time.
With all due respect, Jax is nothing like Robert Parish other than that he's tall.
I agree on not giving up on Hayes. He has the talent to be a good player if he can develop.
I guess the default question is should you draft a guy in the top 10 who is so raw you think it could take 2 or 3 years to even get him into the rotation reliably? I'd say top 10 is too high for that kind of player. Road is too long and risk of flameout too great. You're projecting way out and that's always a risky strategy. Late first round? OK. But not top-10. In the top 10 you've got to go with someone who at least has shown an actual basketball skill set. To me it's akin to drafting a track star at receiver in the NFL. Sure the guy can run, but can he actually play football?
I agree. But I’m strictly going based off the mentality I’ve observed and being a winner. Not necessarily style of skills. The games different. Parish today imo isn’t Parish of the 70s and 80s. But that Big Chief winners attitude and aura...I see it in Jax. He already has that 80s Celtics sharp elbows and kneecaps down pact.
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