If you'd have put an Adams trade on here a month ago, you'd have been a year late. Adams rumours hit the market last year and people on here (including me) were saying he'd be a good target at that time.Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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If you'd have put an Adams trade on here a month ago, you'd have been a year late. Adams rumours hit the market last year and people on here (including me) were saying he'd be a good target at that time.
Basketball.
Show me one post where someone said he would be a positive value. I agree.....some might have said to get him if he was free or (more likely) came with a pick, as many assumed he would a year ago.
But positive value given up for him, show me one post of one person clamoring for that
@mcnamara247
There is nothing wrong with Adams the player. I like the guy and love that he is on the team.
But I also love the car I drive. But if I had to pay well over retail for it, I would have an issue with that --- the cost, not the car.
I feel like some believe that when you attack the cost of the player, you are attacking the player. To me, it is two clear separate things.
Adams, the player, I love. If we got him for expirings, or even if we gave up the picks and still were able to use the MLE and BAE, I would grade it a solid deal. But the picks, Hill, and the MLE.... it is no doubt an overpay. I cant even wrap my mind around how that is debateable.
Very small market teams will ALWAYS pay over retail, that is just reality and will never change.
I was a hardcore Lakers fan since '99, and they always acted like stars were lucky if the Lakers were even interested in them and the peanuts they would receive based on the team's winning heritage and location (many times management was embarassingly wrong). Tiny market teams must do more and better work in the draft than others, and have the opposite mindset: we will be lucky if even desirable role-players decide to sign with us.
It's fine to have the opinion we overpaid for Adams (though I diasgree), but you ain't getting him to New Orleans for 'retail'.
For difference makers, I agree. Overpay. You need to.
I guess the debate here is if Adams is a difference maker. And that might be the core of our disagreement. I have put out names like Olynyk. Others have said Baynes. We could have had Whiteside or center by committee where you get like Len and Noel to couple with Hayes.
So thats the question:
Same exact roster, same exact injuries, luck, etc. Only difference is in world A, you have Adams at center. World B you have Olynyk. World C, you have Whiteside or Baynes. World D you go center by committee. I would say that you might win 1-2 more games with Adams than you would in the other worlds. Maybe occassionally you do better in other worlds because Whiteside has a chip on his shoulder or Olynyk has a monster shooting season, whatever. But on average, you win 1-2 more games with Adams than the other options we had that had almost no cost/didnt require an overpay.
Or do you guys disagree? Are you expecting like 4-6 more wins with Adams versus those other options?
Actually they did just get Adams to New Orleans for "retail." That extension he (voluntarily) signed for is very much "retail" price for a center his caliber.
Pelicans are getting Adams for less than Capela, Vucevic, Myles Turner, and Sabonis. And obviously FAR less than Adebayo, Embiid, Horford, Drummond, and Gobert.
Pelicans got Adams for slightly more than Memphis has to pay Gorgui Dieng (expiring) and Valanciunas each next season. Slightly more than Cody Zeller. Seems about right to me.
Last edited by luckyman; 11-28-2020 at 06:28 PM.
That is cherry picking contracts, many signed a while ago.
This offseason Serge Ibaka, Harrell, and Thompson - three guys in or around his tier signed for 9.5 mil
You will be hard pressed to find centers sign with another team for more than the MLE. If Adams was a free agent this summer or next, he signs for the MLE...just like Drummond will next summer. There are 6 or 7 centers that would get more than the MLE if they were free agents next summer and Adams wouldn't be one of them
I think we got Adams for a good deal, but we aren't just looking at the price of extension he signed, but picks, etc. to get him here.
Well if we are talking about the ability of this team to attract free agents, then that's the extension part (Adam's asking price). Not the trade part (OKC's asking price).
MM mentioned difference-makers, of which I agree there are only a few. Will Adams be a difference-maker worth his cost? Who knows? IMHO the powers-that-be determined that we would not be able to trade for or get in FA an obvious difference-maker in the next 3 years. Adams will allow the Pelicans to establish an offense with the C at the high post (as the Pistons ran with SVG and Adams ran at OKC) and an SVG "********ing wall" for defense. If and when we start getting into the playoffs and perhaps winning a series, then the difference-makers at that time could sign on to be the difference between a second series exit and a conference championship and the owner could be willing to pay the luxury tax. Will this work? Who knows? In general, in the NBA a team does not win with mediocrities, no matter how many the team has and no matter how little they get paid.
It's not "cherry picking" contracts any more than you "cherry picked" players to compare him to. Harrell is not a center and has come off the bench most of his career. Serge Ibaka and Tristan Thompson are both at or past 30 years old and on the downward slope of their careers.
And those other contracts were signed "a while ago" you say? The oldest one of the bunch was Capela.
Clint Capela - July 2018
Myles Turner - October 2018
Nikola Vucevic - July 2019
Damontas Sabonis - October 2019
So half of those literally LAST season and the others just 2 seasons ago. So if you want a comparable center to Adams, you'd be paying them slightly more for the same (or a year more) than Adams' extension. The only centers I see becoming a free agent at or below Adams worth in 2021 is Jarret Allen, Javale McGee, Robin Lopez, and Cody Zeller.
Secondly, you'd also be comparing Adam's worth before his current contract is up. Literally determining his free agent value for 2021 based on 2019 play. He'd have a whole 2020 contract year to determine his worth. Nothing I'm responding to makes any sense.
Last edited by luckyman; 11-28-2020 at 08:45 PM.
This discussion has turned into boredom filler at best. There are a lot more moving parts in our roster that has much more concerned than Adams and his trade repercussions/value that has little cause for concern.
All I know is we traded one of our better players and actually got immediately better on paper IMO. That doesn’t happen too often.
Adams is an upgrade to Favors. Bledsoe might not be an upgrade to Jrue, but I think he is to Lonzo running the point. We don’t lose a ton on defense either cause Bledsoe is above average defensively. We may lose some offense, but I think Bledsoe, an improved 2nd year NAW & an extremely fast rookie Kira can possibly better what Jrue gave us by himself lol
Not to be pedantic, but, if Adams is an unrestricted free agent on the open market at this point in time instead of a part of a trade deal, he has many choices and I doubt we sign him outright for his extension price (he probably picks a playoff team, big city, or sunny beach for the same price or higher). But hey, maybe he's got a major beignet or jambalaya addiction and I am wrong.
Now if some other team traded for him and he wants to extend, then yeah, its probably the same price. But you have to give up assets to get that opportunity to extend him instead of overpaying an unrestricted free agent to come to your tiny market town, is my point.
Last edited by SoCal4Pels; 11-28-2020 at 11:21 PM.
I agree. There is no more juice to be squeezed from this fruit. I just don't like the fact that it is so hard to be objective about the offseason. Optimism bias reigns Supreme. But then when we lose during the season, it is then so clear to identify the roster building mistakes.
To me its pretty easy to identify them when they happen if you remove hope and optimism bias and think more objectively. Like, if Grizzlies had taken Zion and then traded assets to put Steven Adams next to him, there is no way the majority of Pels fans would have called it a really good move. Because we would have no reason to see all the unlikely but possible outcomes. We would see it like almost every outsider has seen this Pels move - questionable at best, bad at worst.
I have been through nearly two dozen offseasons with this franchise and the same number with the Raiders and its always the same positive leaning bias which leads to frustration when the season is played because then reality hits.
The extension part was purely his decision. He was not compelled to do that now. He had every choice to just wait until next summer and play where he wanted. Especially if he bets on himself this year and could possibly command even more money.
And there are many factors that go into a FA/extension decision. Just location wise, I'm sure SoCal and NYC are nice (I've been to both--NYC more), but the cost of living and taxes are astronomical. Let alone in L.A. I assume many of the players live hours away from Staples. I dont' want to get side tracked into this conversation, but every locale has its pros and cons and nola isn't exactly Cleveland or OKC. You might be going a bit overboard with that.
And food wise there are lots of health food options in nola now. City Greens is a good local chain to help Steven and Zion's 500 lbs stay in shape.
Yes of course. The only way to show how non-biased you are is to be contrary and/or negative. Anybody that pokes holes in that contrarian view, and presented evidence to back that up, just suffers from "optimism bias."
I mean, most everyone on here has pointed out Adam's limitations as a player. I already said he cannot guard in space.
But ok..."optimism bias." It's a message board foundation. I'm done.
Last edited by luckyman; 11-28-2020 at 11:51 PM.
Why do you think Griffin targeted Adams so hard and was willing to (relatively speaking) pay a lot to get him?
Last edited by AusPel; 11-28-2020 at 11:49 PM.
The thought of riding # 10 scared the B-Jesus out of him.
Earn more than 17.5 per? About 0% chance of that happening.
He may have signed a longer contract with more guaranteed money, but odds are 15 was the absolute limit on what he'd get
That's not the sign of a good GM
Objectivity is when you agree with me. Being biased is when you disagree with me. I am the king of nuanced discourse.
...or being smart enough to recognize a deficiency and addressing it.
You seem to imply he panic bought
Because for him he thinks he is worth it. That simple. And he also thought Hayes was worth the 8th pick. Favors worth two seconds and some decent opportunity cost.
He obviously values that position far more than most. And I dont mind him wanting to get guys to play that position. But he can get similar players for lesser costs and I think when we look back in 4 years the mistakes will be clear. We are just in this honeymoon phase with him currently
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