NBA DRAFT 2020 DISCUSSION

[DaPelFromHell]

My top players for our draft needs/fits:

Tier 1-
Anthony Edwards SG Georgia - best in the draft IMO. We could use a shooting guard like him to take over from Jrue
James Wiseman C Memphis - best big man in the draft. He has a jumper that can develop and if that happens he?s one of the best centers in the game

Tier 2-
LeMelo Ball PG USA ? Australia Pro ball - really talented with the ball and making plays. His shot needs work like his brothers, but doesn?t have the defense like him
Killian Hayes PG France ?German Pro ball - I?m really high on Hayes and would rather him than Ball. His defense is really good and he needs to work on his shot as well.
Deni Avdija F Israel - really talented, but Euro guys scare me high in the draft. They either boom or bust. Not too many good players like you find later in the draft.

Tier 3-
Onyeka Okongwu C USC - athletic freak that could fit nice next to Zion, but I?m fine with Hayes there.
Isaac Okoro F Auburn - would be a nice athletic freak type small forward with good defense. BI could play the 2 with ease due to his size. Hopefully his 3 point shot improves.
Patrick Williams F Florida St - read Okoro

Tier 4-
Obi Toppin PF Dayton - if not for his age he would be in Tier 3. Like this due a lot.
Tyrese Haillburton PG Iowa St - don?t know why, but not a huge fan. Reminds me of Lonzo.
Devin Vassell G/F Florida St - a good 3 & D guy that would fit in nicely on the wing

Tier 5- (After those 11 players I could take just about anyone of the guys below and be happy)
Saddiq Bey SF Villanova (good 3 & D wing)
Kira Lewis PG Alabama (really fast point guard that could fit like a glove with Zion & Hayes)
RJ Hampton G USA ?New Zealand Pro ball (don?t know why but I liked this kid through the whole process. Think he would be higher if he played in the states)
Aaron Nesmith SF Vanderbilt (really good wing 3 point shooter that every team could use in today?s NBA)
Tyrese Maxey G Kentucky (a nice combo guard just has that ?IT? factor. He’s OKC’s Luguentz Dort, but with more upside)
Cole Anthony PG UNC (read Maxey, but more point guard as Maxey more 2)
Precious Achiuwa F Memphis (another good big that is kind of rare in this lottery portion of the draft. A bunch of PGs and wings)

[pelafanatic]

This isn't meant to be prediction as to how his rookie season may go, but does Killian Hayes' play style remind anyone else of NAW. Its the combination of the left handed cross court swing passes, the smooth step back jumper that he struggled to connect on but looks pretty, the middling athleticism that makes him maybe a step slow but at the same time can get defenders off balance when driving to the rim. NAW's greatest skill might be his ambidexterity, which Hayes obviously doesn't possess, but I think the comp is pretty close. Hayes is more than likely a better natural creator for others.

Again, this isn't meant to be a dig on Hayes. I think they're similar prospects, but NAW was 21 when drafted whereas Hayes is 19 (and I'm still a big NAW believer). I would love to see those two guys on a second unit playing off of each other.

[PELICANSFAN]

This isn't meant to be prediction as to how his rookie season may go, but does Killian Hayes' play style remind anyone else of NAW. Its the combination of the left handed cross court swing passes, the smooth step back jumper that he struggled to connect on but looks pretty, the middling athleticism that makes him maybe a step slow but at the same time can get defenders off balance when driving to the rim. NAW's greatest skill might be his ambidexterity, which Hayes obviously doesn't possess, but I think the comp is pretty close. Hayes is more than likely a better natural creator for others.

Again, this isn't meant to be a dig on Hayes. I think they're similar prospects, but NAW was 21 when drafted whereas Hayes is 19 (and I'm still a big NAW believer). I would love to see those two guys on a second unit playing off of each other.

Except that Hayes is the best P&R guard in the draft and NAW had not yet developed in that area.

[pelafanatic]

Except that Hayes is the best P&R guard in the draft and NAW had not yet developed in that area.

NAW's on ball skills are still pretty raw because he was not a primary ball handler for most of his college days. But again, another reason why the Hayes/NAW tandem would be pretty fun

[Pelicanidae]

Except that Hayes is the best P&R guard in the draft and NAW had not yet developed in that area.

I don't believe that Hayes is currently the best PnR guard in the draft (that title would go to Malachi Flynn, who is just incredibly refined) but I do agree that he has the clearest path to being the best PnR guard fairly quickly. His development curve has been stunningly impressive, and his vision just seems better and more adventurous which is vital in exploiting weaknesses in defenses.

And yeah I agree, I think that NAW is a lot better than he showed this past year but he's also 3 full years older than Hayes and still worse at several key primary things. There's a reason that when NAW was drafted my initial reaction was that he was a fine guy who would probably end up being a capable backup combo guard but he didn't thrill me.

[Pelicanidae]

If we were to keep 24 and actually use it, I'd probably draft Desmond Bane if he's still there. 13 + 24 delivering you something like Tyrese Maxey and Desmond Bane would be cool.

[msusousaphone]

I wonder if there is a way we could split Jalen Smith in half....then we could draft Ja Smi at 13 and Len Th at 24.

[Pelicanidae]

I wonder if there is a way we could split Jalen Smith in half....then we could draft Ja Smi at 13 and Len Th at 24.

Gonna stuff you in a locker

[Snarly]

I think I prefer Oturu to Smith since Smith didn?t gain a pound in the last 8 months.

[msusousaphone]

My boy is gonna gain them pounds!

Gonna stuff you in a locker

Lol

[Pelicanidae]

I think I prefer Oturu to Smith since Smith didn?t gain a pound in the last 8 months.

Oturu is a guy that you pick up in the late second, in my view. There's not really anything notably appealing about him.

If anything, it's good that Smith didn't gain much weight: his maximum upside leverages his quite good shooting skills for a big and his decent handle, which means added motion and fluidity is good for him. His physical concerns are real, but they're not mass based, they're to do with his high centre of gravity and weak base.

[Pelicanidae]

Please read this interview from today with Xavier Tillman. It's fairly extensive and very encouraging.

https://hoopshype.com/2020/11/17/xav...ature-profile/

Here are some quotes I loved from it:

You ended your collegiate career coming off four really big wins against top 25 teams, including a top 10 team in Ohio State. How much did it help to go out that way?

XT: It meant everything to me to win against the highest competition. I never like to back down, ever, no matter who I’m playing against. For example, if I am going against a top-ranked player, those are the games I want to see what I can do against them. I’m going to give it my all, play as hard as I can, play as smart as I can. I want to see if you’re worthy of the hype or not. So that is something that I took pride in, going against those top guys and getting the opportunity to play against the top guys to finish the season.

I’d love to hear about your defensive identity and your defensive role, and how you feel that’ll translate into the NBA.

XT: The first thing that I would say is that I am vocal and I am an anchor on defense. I am the guy who is calling out all the screens on the back end, calling out all the coverages. I’m the guy who watches a lot of film and I call the plays out as soon as they come out. I help my teammates navigate through all of them. Getting everybody on board, that’s what I’m good at.

Then, individually, I guard well coming off screens. Michigan State did a great job of teaching me every single piece of defensive coverage: From a soft hedge to a hard hedge, to a feather, to icing ball screens, to dropping back. We looked at every single ball screen. I’ll be able to translate that to the NBA. I know the unathletic bigs will drop while the really athletic bigs can press up and trap. I can get the ball out of the guard’s hands or even switch onto them. That is something I feel like I have the capabilities of doing and that’s what will help me a lot in the NBA because a lot of teams will move and switch. That’s what Michigan State did to prepare me for my career.

The last thing I would say about my defense is my on-ball ability. I am able to guard both bigs in the post. I can guard fours and threes on the wing, who can put the ball on the floor. That was kind of the last piece that showed up my junior year. I was able to do that, hold people down to way below their numbers. I was able to come up with the right job.

Can you walk me through what your film-watching process looks like?

XT: The film-watching process for me is a couple of different things. The first thing is reading tendencies and what teams are really good at, whether they’re driving right or driving left, finishing right, finishing left. What shoulders do they like to shoot their turnarounds over? Are they a shooter? Can they shoot free throws? All that gets factored in when I’m watching film. So now I see what you’re good at.

A good example is how I prepared for Luka Garza from Iowa. When he catches the ball, he only wanted to shoot it with his right hand, Guarding him, you have to make him shoot it with his left hand. If you are able to do that, you get a block every time. Because I know that’s what you want to do and I’m going to make it as difficult as possible for you to do that. Garza is a guy who can stretch the floor so when he was just sitting at the 3-point line, I’m sitting at the 3-point line with him. I’m not going to go help because I know if for some reason I go down to help and they’re able to kick the ball back, it’s three points every time. I’m going to stay with you. You’re just going to have a long night.

Where is your overall confidence with your jump shot right now?

XT: I’ve seen a lot of really good progress with it. It is elevated more. I have good touch now. I am able to shoot from a lot deeper. It doesn’t feel like I’m throwing the ball at the rim. It actually feels smooth. It’s almost like there is an arc where it’s nice and smooth. It’s not forced. I’m falling in love with my jump shooting during these workouts. I’ve learned how easy it is. It is a lot easier than fighting for a rebound. If this takes a lot less effort, I’m going to be able to do this right away as soon as I master it.

[luigi modelo]

Please read this interview from today with Xavier Tillman. It's fairly extensive and very encouraging.

https://hoopshype.com/2020/11/17/xav...ature-profile/

Here are some quotes I loved from it:

Thats some serious awareness. Thanks for the crib notes!

[PaKwAn]

With the direction we are going, we will be picking high upside guys with our picks compared to serviceable/role type players...

[Pelicanidae]

With the direction we are going, we will be picking high upside guys with our picks compared to serviceable/role type players...

High upside is relative.

In this draft, someone who you think will be a comfortably starter calibre player in the 20s is an upside pick.

[Pelicanidae]

Nesmith is the 5th best shooter in this draft at best but he's gonna go a solid 15 picks ahead of Bane for some reason

— Mr. Jackpots (Normal) (@Cosmis) November 17, 2020

5th might be a bit harsh, but yeah basically.

[bogiesfedora]

Nesmith is the 5th best shooter in this draft at best but he's gonna go a solid 15 picks ahead of Bane for some reason

? Mr. Jackpots (Normal) (@Cosmis) November 17, 2020

5th might be a bit harsh, but yeah basically.

I don?t get it with Nesmith. He put up big numbers against crap teams, then got injured before conference play. Bane is basically better at everything, the negative most regularly bought up is a negative wingspan. Okay? so he can?t guard big 3s, 4s, and 5s, exactly how many guys in this draft are we slotting to be anything better than solid two position defenders?

[As I See It]

Bledsoe and #24 to Knicks for #8 and Payton??

[donato]

Bledsoe and #24 to Knicks for #8 and Payton??

Does Bledsoe really have that much value?

[Darkhorse985]

Does Bledsoe really have that much value?

He instantly becomes the best player on the Knicks. So to them, yeah.

[AusPel]

Bledsoe and #24 to Knicks for #8 and Payton??

Knicks are chasing Westbrook first

[Pelicanidae]

I don?t get it with Nesmith. He put up big numbers against crap teams, then got injured before conference play. Bane is basically better at everything, the negative most regularly bought up is a negative wingspan. Okay? so he can?t guard big 3s, 4s, and 5s, exactly how many guys in this draft are we slotting to be anything better than solid two position defenders?

Nesmith shot over 50% from 3 on high attempts. For some people, that is literally all they need.

They don't care that it was a giant jump from last year, through fairly few games, and therefore unlikely to be wholly representative of his ability (I still think he'll be a good shooter but not that good). They also don't care that he has basically no other skills at all. Poor decision maker, bad defender, bad ballhandler, no passing feel or craft, can't finish at the rim even when he does get there which isn't often, isn't particularly fast, isn't particularly strong, and can't shoot off the dribble.

His one skill is shooting off the catch. He is very good at that, and I think he will be good at that in the NBA. But the popular idea that he's the best shooter in the draft or something is absolutely absurd, imo.

Bane is better at basically everything. Cassius Winston is small, but is still a better shooter and has much better auxiliary skills. Markus Howard has 4 consecutive years of shooting at least 40%, and took over 8 threes per game for the last three years in a row, as well as being a better passer. Like, look at this:

Career totals:

Aaron Nesmith: 41.0% from 3 (119/290)
Desmond Bane: 43.3% from 3 (249/575)
Cassius Winston: 43.0% from 3 (259/602)
Markus Howard: 42.7% from 3 (434/1017)
Sam Merrill: 42.0% from 3 (319/759)
Killian Tillie: 44.4% from 3 (106/239) [note: he is a centre]

You see how so many of these guys actually have higher career percentage on as many as double, even triple the attempts?

Now, there are other reasons you might not be so hot on those guys: Sam Merrill is already 24, and Markus Howard is Jameer Nelson size. But if all you're talking about is shooting, they are just clearly better at it. Add to that that all of those guys can shoot off the dribble (outside of Tillie, who I remind you is 6'10 and can still shoot off curls) and can relocate, both vital skills for shooters that Nesmith cannot do, it's just obvious that he's not one of the top 3 shooters in the class.

[As I See It]

Does Bledsoe really have that much value?

I know I'll take flak for this, but he's really a clone of Jrue. Why Milwaukee gave us this treasure chest for Jrue is crazy.

Bledsoe is a defensive juggernaut, and competent offensively. He'll offer the Knicks an instant upgrade in the back court.

[bogiesfedora]

Nesmith shot over 50% from 3 on high attempts. For some people, that is literally all they need.

They don't care that it was a giant jump from last year, through fairly few games, and therefore unlikely to be wholly representative of his ability (I still think he'll be a good shooter but not that good). They also don't care that he has basically no other skills at all. Poor decision maker, bad defender, bad ballhandler, no passing feel or craft, can't finish at the rim even when he does get there which isn't often, isn't particularly fast, isn't particularly strong, and can't shoot off the dribble.

His one skill is shooting off the catch. He is very good at that, and I think he will be good at that in the NBA. But the popular idea that he's the best shooter in the draft or something is absolutely absurd, imo.

Bane is better at basically everything. Cassius Winston is small, but is still a better shooter and has much better auxiliary skills. Markus Howard has 4 consecutive years of shooting at least 40%, and took over 8 threes per game for the last three years in a row, as well as being a better passer. Like, look at this:

Career totals:

Aaron Nesmith: 41.0% from 3 (119/290)
Desmond Bane: 43.3% from 3 (249/575)
Cassius Winston: 43.0% from 3 (259/602)
Markus Howard: 42.7% from 3 (434/1017)
Sam Merrill: 42.0% from 3 (319/759)
Killian Tillie: 44.4% from 3 (106/239) [note: he is a centre]

You see how so many of these guys actually have higher career percentage on as many as double, even triple the attempts?

Now, there are other reasons you might not be so hot on those guys: Sam Merrill is already 24, and Markus Howard is Jameer Nelson size. But if all you're talking about is shooting, they are just clearly better at it. Add to that that all of those guys can shoot off the dribble (outside of Tillie, who I remind you is 6'10 and can still shoot off curls) and can relocate, both vital skills for shooters that Nesmith cannot do, it's just obvious that he's not one of the top 3 shooters in the class.

So he is basically Reggie Bullock. Obviously that has some value in the right contexts, but I am not taking that in the top 20 much less the lottery.

[Pelicanidae]

So he is basically Reggie Bullock. Obviously that has some value in the right contexts, but I am not taking that in the top 20 much less the lottery.

Completely agree. I'd maybe take him at, say, 25-35 range because there is a use to very good shooters and most of the other good players will be gone by then, but at 13 there are so many better options.

If all you care about is shooting just add Bane. He's every put the motion/catch shooter Nesmith is, except he can also shoot off the dribble, and pass, and defend a bit, and attack closeouts, and it looks like he actually knows what basketball is.