Whiteside is a pipe-dream?Originally Posted by msusousaphone
More like a nightmare lol
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Whiteside is a pipe-dream?
More like a nightmare lol
Basketball.
Absolutely. He's getting a bad wrap because Portland had a bad defensive system. Looking back on some of SVG's past teams will show that he's a great fit for a lot of what we will be doing defensively. His rim protection and rebounding would be a good example for Hayes. He's a great complement to Okafor should be bring him back. And we could probably get him for 1/3 what he was making since Portland misused him so bad.
BI, Zion, and CJ had a net rating of +3 when on the court together. BI and Zion had a +13.4, BI and CJ had a +13.2, Zion and CJ was just +5.4.
BI and Zion worked. BI and CJ worked. It was CJ and Zion and all three together that didn't work.
The secret of Hassan Whiteside is that he's actually been bad everywhere, but Miami had a really good coach who put him in a position that maximised his positives while minimising his negatives by using him very specifically. This specificity made him look a lot better than he was for a brief period of time, but he baulked at it very quickly and became a locker room malcontent.
His defense overall is very poor, despite the block numbers, and he's clueless about 70% of the time.
You kinda make the case for him; reading between your lines. I know you like people who can do a lot of things but that's not what I think we need anchoring our D. A journeyman big type who can rim protect, get boards, and slam buckets. That's what would fit perfectly next to BI and Zion. That's what would fit perfectly on any D that SVG has run in the past. That's also what would fit perfectly in a rotation with Hayes and Okafor (this is still my dream, and my dream he is staying). So when you say he worked in Miami because they maximized his positives and minimized his negatives....that's exactly what we'd like to do with a big man here. We'll most likely be running extremely similar defenses. You say he was a malcontent because he got big headed and didn't want to fit that narrow mold, now he is humbled and will take a 66% cut(about) to fit that mold. It's perfect.
Yes but if all you need is someone who can do decent rim protection and dunk the open shots, then you do not need the price or the bad attitude that comes with Whiteside. You can get that, and probably someone who can actually screen too, for less money and with less ego tripping.
You also need to address the malcontent reality. Whiteside didn't like that kind of limitation and restriction on his role. It's what made him look his best, but he wanted more: he has the skill and talent level of your 5th option, but the ego of a 1st. How do you reconcile that with a team that is full of youth and in need of mature, stable veterans? You don't add Whiteside to a locker room that needs support, that's like throwing a bomb in.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 10-24-2020 at 05:39 AM.
Statistically, Whiteside is the perfect fit. Intangibles -- couldnt be a worse fit. This team is trying to develop a culture that includes hard work, accountability, and communication. All areas where Whitesides is horrible. We need to bring in vets who communicate, who challenge the young guys to do all the little things and have the ability to do so because they do them themselves.
I still think Baynes makes the most sense if we dont bring back Favors. Played for SVG before. Does the little things - set screens, talks, rotates on D, etc. Maybe a third of the raw talent of Whiteside but will give you everything he's got and that trickles down to others on your roster
@mcnamara247
Another guy I wouldnt mind is Nerlens. Number 2 in the league in deflections per 36 (behind only my #1 FA target- Kris Dunn). He also has been slowly extending his range and can provide vertical spacing at the rim. My dream offseason, assuming no major trades are made, would be to add Dunn with the MLE and Nerlens with the BAE. Add two very active, high energy defensive players to attack teams in waves and create more turnovers than we did last year, so we can get out and run
I agree, although I do think it's worth saying that hard work and understanding are skills, and talents. Baynes works hard, Whiteside doesn't, and Baynes understands the game, Whiteside doesn't. As a result, I think it's not really fair to say that he has a third of the raw talent Whiteside has.
Not to push back on you too hard, since I agree with the point, but it does irk me that a lot of what people call ''talent'' is just box score filling.
I would like Nerlens. We are at best 2 seasons away from being contenders if everything breaks well for us. The goal IMO should be to have guys in the system and locked up that will still be in their respective primes when that happens.
Kris Dunn falls into that category as well. Especially if we are moving Lonzo. I really think we should be developing Zion as a playmaker. That should be the focus of the upcoming season. Letting the offense run through Williamson I would prefer on the perimeter, but even if we insist on keeping him in the post area.
I agree with your previous assessment of YoungerBall in that he will be a great role player, he just has to bounce around a bit and be humbled before he gets his head to a point where he can fit that slot. That's exactly how I see Whiteside in my "pipedream" (I started by saying this wasmy fantasy land). The dude bounced around and has been humbled. If he came here, he'd be accepting that this team already belongs to BI, Zion, and Jrue. He's also going to be making way less than he's used to. More crow for him to eat. In my dream scenario, he's in the right headspace to come in and be a role player. Championship teams need that from a few vets. Just like GS and Iggy.
Baynes would be a great place holder if we just want someone to fill the slot until we grab a younger/better piece when we are ready to run (and I don't say that in a bad way....it's a legit strategy). Noel would be cool. I do like him.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 10-24-2020 at 10:50 AM.
Would like Noel and either Dunn or Augustin.
Don't disagree with finding value in Nerlens, just curious as to where I can see him having added range?
He was a grand total of 1/3 from 3 last year over 61 games, shot 26% from close midrange and 27% from long midrange (both actually worse than the year before on similar sorts of shot volume), so on and so forth.
I might be misunderstanding, forgive me if I am.
Best friend works for a team and he has a buddy on OKC's staff. Said Noel can knock down corner 3's now at a high clip and to expect to see it happen once he goes to a team who allows him to shoot it. Looking at his FT% jump, I tend to believe its not just a guy talking out his you know what
Definition of talent: NATURAL aptitude or skill
So, yes, Whiteside might have 10x more. That said, I respect hard work and basketball smarts 1000x more than "talent"
But when people say talent, they are talking about a guys running, jumping, movement....all the things a coach cant teach. It actually has nothing to do with "box score filling"
That's fine, I just thought you were talking about actual in game progress that I could observe. My mistake. I'm sure he has been working on his shooting, and I'm also sure that he can hit them just fine in practice: I'd like to see that manifest outside of the Ben Simmons Practice Footage scenario before I start banking on it though.
That would be pretty legit. I've always liked him. Was sad we traded him. But have been smitten with Jrue.
If you wait until it happens in games before you go get him, you are gonna have to pay much more. You gotta go get the Brook Lopez before he starts shooting the 3 to get value. Once they prove they can shoot it, they get huge money
Contributor
Hope Noel is on the list of players we're targeting.
The thing is that we need a perimeter guy and a big most likely and I just think you can get a much better big with the BAE than you can a perimeter guy. You use the MLE for the perimeter guy. And I think Noel might cost more than the BAE
I haven't kept up with Noel, but I'll buy into his improvement.
Draft a perimeter guy/motion shooter like Nesmith. With a coach like SVG, he probably maximize his strength well.
I think revamping our bigs and wing defender is going to be a 2-3 year process and that's if we aren't force to abandon Ball!/ trade Jrue.
I’d bet that Noel gets paid more than Dunn on a short term deals in free agency. Dunn is still a role player where as Noel can be a reasonable starting center.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 10-24-2020 at 09:45 PM.
Sure, and I get that, that's the sort of thing a FO would be able to try and find out better than I can. I was just wondering when I had asked if there was anything I could actually see or not. The answer to that right now is no, which sucks but isn't that surprising.
MM and Dae, you guys have been on point, lately. This might be the best I've seen this board. It had me invigorated to looking up on SVG. Going off the surface of a few hours of internet sleuthing, it seems like we'll be trying to surround Zion and BI with 3pt shooters.....I'm expecting even for the C. Kind of interesting because SVG loves to play that Inside-Out with one big doing some ball handling inside and then passing it out to a shooter/moving player. I'm assuming Zion would be that big. So I'm guessing we will eventually be aiming for a C that can hit the 3. It also has me questioning Lonzo and Jrue's future here. Seems like only one is destined to stay unless one or bothof them turn into 3pt shooting types. That's a lot of assumptions and guesses from just a short time of "researching", but it does have me xhanging my personnel predictions.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 10-26-2020 at 08:43 AM.
First priority for SVG and Griffin at center will be someone who can protect the rim and/or rebound at high level. Melli can come in and stretch when needed, but this team needs to protect the rim. You cant give up shots at the rim and open looks from 3 -- gotta take away one and the easier one to take away is in the paint. To fix the defense somewhat this season, the team is gonna focus on three things:
1. Reduce turnovers
2. Get back in transition
3. Protect the rim
They do those 3 things, even if they trade Jrue and they should be in the 12-15 range, which should be good enough to be competitive
What do you think the likelihood of them bringing back Favors is?
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