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Thread: Pels Hire Stan Van Gundy

  1. #26
    Just want to note, here's a thing Van Gundy said on the Lowe Post podcast:

    I think sometimes we get too focused on what guys can't do. [Lonzo Ball] has a nice package of skills. They've got other ball handling parts and pieces. He does not need to facilitate everything in the half court. [...] A hybrid role.
    SVG on the ''use Lonzo like a wing on offense'' train? All for it. He does not have half-court lead guard chops, let someone else do it and play to his strengths while he's here, however long that is.
    Basketball.

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    This at least gives me hope. I’m not fully convinced on Van Gundy, but this is a much shrewder hire than Gentry. I quit watching the Pels for a while when Alvin became head coach because I was so disappointed with the appointment. He was a proven loser. This is a solid compromise to me.
    Huh? The Detroit run by Gundy was horrendous with him having complete control. Then, you have him quiting (resigning) from the Heat and then go on to win a championship without him. Gundy had his legacy held up by a prime Wade and Dwight to some debate.

    Still... I give credit when it's due. When you hand Grundy a talented team. There is no falling off a cliff year after year. He's consistent. So, what needs to happen is that the front office has to overcome it's franchise issues in acquiring talent and managing personnel. You put Gundy in a position to succeed with talent/ good staff and he will.
    Last edited by Taker597; 10-21-2020 at 02:05 PM.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Just want to note, here's a thing Van Gundy said on the Lowe Post podcast:



    SVG on the ''use Lonzo like a wing on offense'' train? All for it. He does not have half-court lead guard chops, let someone else do it and play to his strengths while he's here, however long that is.
    Any known precedents for timid type guys really improving their driving and playmaking game a few years into their careers?

  4. #29
    Take note of the people who don't like the hire now. By the time the whole staff is announced I bet most of them are on board.

    I just don't get why people have to have a grade or an opinion right away. Just wait to see the whole staff, hear the whole picture
    @mcnamara247

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Just want to note, here's a thing Van Gundy said on the Lowe Post podcast:



    SVG on the ''use Lonzo like a wing on offense'' train? All for it. He does not have half-court lead guard chops, let someone else do it and play to his strengths while he's here, however long that is.
    If SVG can do with regulating him to a more suited role, stop trying to force a rhythm shooter into a technical sharpshooter role, and get Lonzo to stop skipping leg day. We might actually have something.

  6. #31
    I have heard that time in Miami and Orlando ended out of his control (Riley and Howard forced him out). His time with Detroit was unremarkable, but he isn’t a bad hire. I will be interested to see who he has join his bench.
    If you Jimmer it, they will come.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Take note of the people who don't like the hire now. By the time the whole staff is announced I bet most of them are on board.

    I just don't get why people have to have a grade or an opinion right away. Just wait to see the whole staff, hear the whole picture
    Every human on Earth has an initial impression about everything they came across in their lives.

    Very much exacerbated by the anonymity of the Internet; no one is really held to account unless extreme cases

    The ability to critically think and shift - or not shift - judgement accordingly, is a big indicator of intelligence
    Last edited by AusPel; 10-21-2020 at 02:13 PM.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Any known precedents for timid type guys really improving their driving and playmaking game a few years into their careers?
    Not known to me, but I don't pretend to be all-knowing. If anyone else knows someone who took a huge driving/finishing leap in their 4th year or later, then they can chip in I'm sure.

  9. #34
    This hire does nothing for me. Best of luck to Van Gundy, I would have preferred someone that hasn't been away from coaching so long, but whetever.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    Take note of the people who don't like the hire now. By the time the whole staff is announced I bet most of them are on board.

    I just don't get why people have to have a grade or an opinion right away. Just wait to see the whole staff, hear the whole picture
    I think recency bias with the Detroit run really damage the perception with SVG. Yet, it's a fair assessment to be not excited for him. He had 4 years in an inferior conference and did very poorly as not only the coach, but president of operations. When you're given that much power and fail. There is little room for excuses. At 61 years old, there is very little to be excited about Stan.

    Can I blame for people not being excited or jumping the gun to make a judgement... Not at all.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Not known to me, but I don't pretend to be all-knowing. If anyone else knows someone who took a huge driving/finishing leap in their 4th year or later, then they can chip in I'm sure.
    Pros - He's 6'6 and deceptively explosive, first (or second?) healthy pre season. Holds records for single season UCLA assists record

    Cons - I don't know what fashion he got most of his assists in college, but he didn't drive and score in traffic much. Can you become a creative passer in the half court just through reps on the practice court? The answer is perhaps

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    This hire does nothing for me. Best of luck to Van Gundy, I would have preferred someone that hasn't been away from coaching so long, but whetever.
    You must be thinking of his brother Jeff because Stan was a coach not too long ago.

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Pros - He's 6'6 and deceptively explosive, first (or second?) healthy pre season. Holds records for single season UCLA assists record

    Cons - I don't know what fashion he got most of his assists in college, but he didn't drive and score in traffic much. Can you become a creative passer in the half court just through reps on the practice court? The answer is perhaps
    Pros: Tall, lengthy, relatively athletic, has improved as a catch and shoot 3 point guy. Don't care about his UCLA assists record, frankly. Plays good defense when he bothers to do it. Absurdly good ''linkage'' passer; that is, finding the extra pass and setting up shots, particularly in transition or full court.
    Cons: Mediocre handle, relentlessly bad shot selection, shoddy decision making, can't finish at the rim at all, doesn't drive and therefore doesn't pressure defenses, dreadful FT shooter, can't run a PnR really at all.

    If you take him off ball and use him almost like a 3&D wing in the half court, then you maximise his improved shooting and his defense+size combination against other guards, while minimising the damage his awful half-court initiation can cause. SVG seems to have noticed that, and seems to be interested in at least trying him in more of that auxiliary role, where he's a PG in the full court/transition but hands it over in HC. That's the best use of Lonzo, at least right now.

    Of course, if you improve Lonzo's play and impact by moving him to 3&D wing the majority of the time, then his impact will go up but his secondary role will also make you inclined to pay him less: true, primary initiators are more valuable and therefore more expensive than decent roleplayers. That introduces an issue with his upcoming second contract.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    I think recency bias with the Detroit run really damage the perception with SVG. Yet, it's a fair assessment to be not excited for him. He had 4 years in an inferior conference and did very poorly as not only the coach, but president of operations. When you're given that much power and fail. There is little room for excuses. At 61 years old, there is very little to be excited about Stan.

    Can I blame for people not being excited or jumping the gun to make a judgement... Not at all.
    In fairness to SVG, being good at one thing does not mean you'll be good at another. SVG was a bad GM, which set him up to be a bad HC, for obvious FO/HC issues.

    When it comes to just being a HC, he's been really very capable in his career. Especially defensively.

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Pros: Tall, lengthy, relatively athletic, has improved as a catch and shoot 3 point guy. Don't care about his UCLA assists record, frankly. Plays good defense when he bothers to do it. Absurdly good ''linkage'' passer; that is, finding the extra pass and setting up shots, particularly in transition or full court.
    Cons: Mediocre handle, relentlessly bad shot selection, shoddy decision making, can't finish at the rim at all, doesn't drive and therefore doesn't pressure defenses, dreadful FT shooter, can't run a PnR really at all.

    If you take him off ball and use him almost like a 3&D wing in the half court, then you maximise his improved shooting and his defense+size combination against other guards, while minimising the damage his awful half-court initiation can cause. SVG seems to have noticed that, and seems to be interested in at least trying him in more of that auxiliary role, where he's a PG in the full court/transition but hands it over in HC. That's the best use of Lonzo, at least right now.

    Of course, if you improve Lonzo's play and impact by moving him to 3&D wing the majority of the time, then his impact will go up but his secondary role will also make you inclined to pay him less: true, primary initiators are more valuable and therefore more expensive than decent roleplayers. That introduces an issue with his upcoming second contract.
    Not to mention our issue with a primary creator, or lack thereof

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by AusPel View Post
    Not to mention our issue with a primary creator, or lack thereof
    Zion should be getting a lot of on-ball reps this year. If you want to maximise him, you want to be drawing out as much of his ball-handling as possible. I believe he has it in him. Now, it's also true that it would hurt him to be given all of that responsibility to early, but we also have Ingram who can do some ball handling, and Jrue can still do it as long as we aren't asking it of him 100% of the time.

    Obviously long term you need a guy, but for right now I'm find with that PG by committee approach.

  17. #42
    JJ Redick on SVG:

    There's no perfect coach. I think Stan had a bigger impact on my career than any coach I've played for [...] Stan, probably the best coach that I've played for in the NBA. I hate that Shaq had to say that about him, or that we had to talk about this, because I always felt like in a playoff series Stan was going to get us a win. He would make an adjustment or come up with a game plan in game 3 or game 4, or even steal one in game 1, like 'I'll do this and they're not expecting it' and it worked a lot of the time. He would always get us a game because he worked so hard, he was so prepared, and he took so much responsibility for what he could control. He was great for that.

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Zion should be getting a lot of on-ball reps this year. If you want to maximise him, you want to be drawing out as much of his ball-handling as possible. I believe he has it in him. Now, it's also true that it would hurt him to be given all of that responsibility to early, but we also have Ingram who can do some ball handling, and Jrue can still do it as long as we aren't asking it of him 100% of the time.

    Obviously long term you need a guy, but for right now I'm find with that PG by committee approach.
    That seems reasonable. Lonzo can sit in on occaisions too

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I'm happy with this choice

  20. #45
    I hope he can adapt to life in the western conference. Different style of play out here.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    JJ Redick on SVG:
    This quote before or after the hire?

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by luckyman View Post
    This quote before or after the hire?
    Before, it was a few weeks ago on Matt Barnes' podcast.

  23. #48
    Astute observation by SVG regarding Lonzo, glad he has been paying attention. I am not super familiar with him but if he places a huge emphasis on defense I will be very happy.

    For those wondering who will handle half-court creating responsibilities, BI has more skills in that regard than he showed last year, Jrue can help there, and hopefully NAW will make some strides.

    But recall that Zion said at one point he sees himself as a turbo-charged Draymond Green... he has already shown glimpses of great passing, and if he improves that handle...

    Can you imagine Zion averaging 13 rebounds a game and leading the break where he gets either a monster dunk or hits BI or JJ for the three because he has sucked in three defenders to stop the Zion dunk per every single opposing coach's instructions?

    Oh my goodness...

  24. #49
    I dont mind, trust.

  25. #50
    Kendrick Perkins wanted us to hire Marc Jackson or Jason Kidd...I feel better about the hire now.

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