Jrue, JJ, and the Overall Path

[MichaelMcNamara]

Is Steve Nash getting the nod at HC as much a Durant appeasing move as it appears? Basically if Durant is like “get Jrue over here” does that offer come up to where Griffin wants now?

Ultimate question is: how much sway do players like Durant get despite playing hardly at all?

I dont think it would be: Get Jrue over here, as much as: Get a talented vet over here. And at that point it comes down to how many other options the Nets have at a level similar to Jrue. Then, reach out to all those GMs and trade with the one who has the most fair price.

Jrue's value peaks if a few things happen, including Beal truly being off the table and in an ideal world Giannis signing extension. All about number of buyers and sellers. Always is

[PeliKhan]

Who is Jrues competition tho? Only player I can think of is Bledsoe and his value took quite a dip from his performance in the playoffs. Beal is going to comand a kings ransom. I think a number of teams will REALLY prefer Jrue.

If we don't get a good haul(long term players or decent pics) then I'd rather keep him.

[Saints63213]

I think we can do #3 with Kenny Atkinson or SVG. I also like Jrue and JJ to Indiana for Turner, Oladipo on an expiring, and a 1st, if we can get it, as my preferred theoretical trade option right now.

Lineup

PG: Ball/NAW
SG: Oladipo/Hart/Jackson
SF: Ingram/ Nesmith or Bey (13th pick)
PF: Williamson/Melli
C: Turner/Hayes

I like this idea put combined with option 4. Flip Oladipo for future picks and likely a bad contract....

Love Turner at the 5! If you can get a solid starting piece and a few future first with maybe some swaps I think that is good value for Jrue and JJ short and long term.

[Pelicanidae]

I'm curious as to how much Pacers basketball you guys have watched this past year or so?

Cause Oladipo is not looking good, and Myles Turner has regressed if anything. Not saying you shouldn't discuss them at all, but when you're discussing flipping Oladipo for assets, I wonder what you think those assets might be. Similarly, when you say Turner is the perfect big, is he? Or did he just look like he might be, three years ago?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Nobody watches Pacers basketball. But they all LOVE Myles Turner. It has been that way for about a year and a half now

[Saints63213]

I feel like with the pacers all their Bigs are stretch guys and Turner next to a force down low on offense it is the best fit for his and Zion's games. Could I be wrong sure... I agree Oladipo isn't the same that is why I would do the deal but move him for long term assets.

[AusPel]

Nobody watches Pacers basketball. But they all LOVE Myles Turner. It has been that way for about a year and a half now

Everyone loves the idea of what Myles Turner is

[Fedupfan]

Everyone loves the idea of what Myles Turner is

It’s because people believe that Zion needs a shooting big next to him for him to reach his potential but never think of him as developing his game. I, personally, want a low usage rebounding center that can defend the paint. I want Zion to get as many touches as possible and don’t believe the center needs to be anything more than what Favors is. Zion and BI are the guys and the ball should go through them. Everyone else should be role players that exceed at their role like Josh Hart. Don’t take touches from Zion and BI.

[MichaelMcNamara]

It’s because people believe that Zion needs a shooting big next to him for him to reach his potential but never think of him as developing his game. I, personally, want a low usage rebounding center that can defend the paint. I want Zion to get as many touches as possible and don’t believe the center needs to be anything more than what Favors is. Zion and BI are the guys and the ball should go through them. Everyone else should be role players that exceed at their role like Josh Hart. Don’t take touches from Zion and BI.

And I get wanting a shooting big next to Zion, too. But I wanna actually see the guy play, not just look at his stats. And Turner doesnt scare defenses out there. He has a long release thats like a catapult. Shot never goes in when it actually matters. Teams will leave him out there and live with the results. He wont create the space that people think he will for Zion

[Pelicanidae]

And I get wanting a shooting big next to Zion, too. But I wanna actually see the guy play, not just look at his stats. And Turner doesnt scare defenses out there. He has a long release thats like a catapult. Shot never goes in when it actually matters. Teams will leave him out there and live with the results. He wont create the space that people think he will for Zion

Beyond that, Turner's defense hasn't actually sustained the way people hoped it would a few years ago where he was looking like he might be fairly special on that end. He's not the worst or anything, and his rim protection is still very good, but he has a lot of clear issues otherwise and they haven't really been fixed over multiple years.

Related to that is the fact that he's a very shaky decision maker: at times it can be catastrophic.

[UNPELIEVABLE]

Could a deal like this work?

Bucks - Paul, Holiday, Melli
Thunder - Reddick, Ilyasova, Bledsoe, #24
Pels - Middleton, Hill

Maybe a few firsts or seconds could be added to/from either side to balance things out.

From the Bucks perspective you can sell Giannis that we are making some big changes to show our commitment to winning bringing in a superstar (although older) PG and bringing in another two way star. Middleton and Bledsoe just haven't worked. Maybe this could convince Giannis to sign on for a 1 or 2 year extension.

Thunder get a 1st and vets to flip later in JJ and Ilyasova. And they can use Bledsoe until they flip him later. Gives them flexibility to move on from Schroeder and a ton of cap space after next year.

Pels get Middleton who is a much better fit offensively and plays great team D. He could help us get to the playoffs, is a year younger than Jrue. His contract runs through 23/24 season (40 mil player option). His game isn't based on athleticism either, so he should still have some value to a contender going into that season if we opt to move him.

We don't get younger, but we definitely get better.

[msusousaphone]

Nobody watches Pacers basketball. But they all LOVE Myles Turner. It has been that way for about a year and a half now

Very low supply and high demand. I can't think of that many available bigs that excite me.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Very low supply and high demand. I can't think of that many available bigs that excite me.

Starting center for one Western Conference Finals team was a vet minimum guy. For a Eastern Conference Finalist, Daniel Theis

If you dont have a major difference maker at the 5, go with a cheap mercenary or two. Put money and resources into other positions. Having an 18 million dollar above avg center is a waste to me. I'd rather have a 2 million dollar guy, give Melli some mins at the 5. Zion. Hayes, etc. And put money and resources into multi-positional perimeter guys

[Pelicanidae]

Starting center for one Western Conference Finals team was a vet minimum guy. For a Eastern Conference Finalist, Daniel Theis

If you dont have a major difference maker at the 5, go with a cheap mercenary or two. Put money and resources into other positions. Having an 18 million dollar above avg center is a waste to me. I'd rather have a 2 million dollar guy, give Melli some mins at the 5. Zion. Hayes, etc. And put money and resources into multi-positional perimeter guys

Part of the problem is how people identify an average centre or a below average centre.

Centre is a strange position because it's responsible for a ton of things that look really minor from the outside but are actually fundamental. I've seen people say that your C on defense is the equivalent, in terms of significance, to your PG on offense. While that's slightly overstated, I understand why they would make that comparison.

Someone like Theis is not a skilled scorer in any respect, but he's good at all the little things. He's almost always in the right place, screens really well, is an intelligent and aware defender, passes solidly, etc. These things all have value but they're not the sort of value that entices your average viewer. So it's important to note that not all cheap mercenaries are built the same.

I do agree though, that I wouldn't want to be spending on $20m or something on a centre that was just ''quite good'' by the standard metrics. For me to spend that much on a centre they need to be legitimately high impact on both ends. Just quite decent doesn't cut it.

[msusousaphone]

So. Now we KNOW we have SVG. Maybe I'm just in a weird place mentally from lack of sleep but I'm kinda getting low key excited about Jahlil Okafor. I really want to have him for a few more years. Dwight Howard did have his best years under Gundy. I know those are two completely different players and styles but MM is teasing the staff hirings and that's got me all giddy. But Favors, Okafor, and Hayes really do compliment eachother well as a unit. They each bring different things to the big men role. If Hayes and Ok continue to develop well and Favors gets back to Favoring (if we still have him)......I may really like them going into next season.

The draft will be interesting. We already have more young talent than we could ever possibly get on the court. We still have Didi overseas. I just can't see us using four picks.

[Pelicanidae]

Both Favors and Okafor are free agents. Don't be surprised if at least one of them goes: hell, don't consider it absurd to think that both might go. I'd rather take a run at Baynes, so, than either of them at this point.

Edit: and yeah I totally agree. It's been said before on here, by myself and others, that it's almost beyond reason to think we're going to make 4 draft picks this year. Much more likely that either some of the second rounders are consolidated to move up, are packaged in other sorts of deals, or are traded for 2nd rounders from the future to kick the can down the road. I can see us picking one first rounder, and one second rounder, at most. Even then, it's a debate about how much actual team-time those players get this year, if any.

[fullcourtpress]

I'd do what I could to get an early pick in the draft. I love Jrue, but don't think we are in a position to fill the roster out with role players like some. If his demand is high we should get the 2nd pick from golden state and take a boom or bust like Edwards or Wiseman

what a frontcourt if it hits. then we can talk about title

Ingram
Zion
Wiseman

[Mount Zion]

Starting center for one Western Conference Finals team was a vet minimum guy. For a Eastern Conference Finalist, Daniel Theis

If you dont have a major difference maker at the 5, go with a cheap mercenary or two. Put money and resources into other positions. Having an 18 million dollar above avg center is a waste to me. I'd rather have a 2 million dollar guy, give Melli some mins at the 5. Zion. Hayes, etc. And put money and resources into multi-positional perimeter guys

This is close to where I am at with the center position. I would imagine that it probably comes from my belief that the best center for today's NBA is a dominant rebounder and defender, who can create some points around the rim. He doesn't need to be a high volume scorer or someone you necessarily run the offense through, but can run the pick and roll and is able to see the floor to facilitate for others. I get why people want their big to be able to shoot the 3, but for me, that's a bonus and a luxury rather than a must have. My favorite player ever was Bill Russell. I suppose he might have been able to hit an outside shot (pre-3 point era), but I was more than happy with his dominance on defense and his rebounding. I would just rather have a Russell, Robert Parrish, even Wes Unseld type than a guy that spends much of his time away from the basket. That guy may cost a lot as a 10-year vet, but he won't chew up your cap for a while. The problem is that there just aren't a lot of that type of player around anymore and teams aren't looking to develop one like that.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Both Favors and Okafor are free agents. Don't be surprised if at least one of them goes: hell, don't consider it absurd to think that both might go. I'd rather take a run at Baynes, so, than either of them at this point.

Edit: and yeah I totally agree. It's been said before on here, by myself and others, that it's almost beyond reason to think we're going to make 4 draft picks this year. Much more likely that either some of the second rounders are consolidated to move up, are packaged in other sorts of deals, or are traded for 2nd rounders from the future to kick the can down the road. I can see us picking one first rounder, and one second rounder, at most. Even then, it's a debate about how much actual team-time those players get this year, if any.

You can do more with 2nd rounders than ever before. While I agree it is likely we only have one or two rookies from this draft on the active roster, several 2nd rounders were signed to two-way deals last year and several more were sent overseas. I could see a world where we make 3 or 4 picks. But yes, only 1 or 2 will make the active roster

[msusousaphone]

This is close to where I am at with the center position. I would imagine that it probably comes from my belief that the best center for today's NBA is a dominant rebounder and defender, who can create some points around the rim. He doesn't need to be a high volume scorer or someone you necessarily run the offense through, but can run the pick and roll and is able to see the floor to facilitate for others. I get why people want their big to be able to shoot the 3, but for me, that's a bonus and a luxury rather than a must have. My favorite player ever was Bill Russell. I suppose he might have been able to hit an outside shot (pre-3 point era), but I was more than happy with his dominance on defense and his rebounding. I would just rather have a Russell, Robert Parrish, even Wes Unseld type than a guy that spends much of his time away from the basket. That guy may cost a lot as a 10-year vet, but he won't chew up your cap for a while. The problem is that there just aren't a lot of that type of player around anymore and teams aren't looking to develop one like that.

I agree with this.

[luckyman]

I just rather they go ahead and start rebuilding the back court and get some help at center.

Jrue probably needs to be traded now. Lonzo is just not a good point guard and I'd rather not experiment with him as some hybrid. Just cut bait now.

One of the reasons I'm high on Kira Lewis. He can make a difference with his elite speed and good shot while his skills and body develop. I also still like NAW.

The center spot doesn't need to be the stretch type. Just a more athletic Favors type that wouldnt cost much would do.

[Pelicanidae]

I still have extremely mixed views on Kira Lewis. On the one hand, his speed is superlative and that will create a lot of advantages, particularly in transition, and his shot looks like it might be real. On the other hand, his defensive upside is limited by being small (not just in weight, cause he's young and that's going to go up, but his frame as well) and there are legitimate doubts about his upside as a finisher. Partly due to that frame issue, but also partly due to an apparently lack of high level touch around the basket thus far. While it's important to note that he is young for a sophomore, he's still a sophomore, so the sample size against college competition is fairly large.

Earlier in the year I was quite out on him, I'm a bit more in now, but I'm not sure I'd go ''sell off Jrue and Ball and go all in on Kira''.

Well, yes, get rid of Ball, but the Jrue part is a no thank you.

[luckyman]

I still have extremely mixed views on Kira Lewis. On the one hand, his speed is superlative and that will create a lot of advantages, particularly in transition, and his shot looks like it might be real. On the other hand, his defensive upside is limited by being small (not just in weight, cause he's young and that's going to go up, but his frame as well) and there are legitimate doubts about his upside as a finisher. Partly due to that frame issue, but also partly due to an apparently lack of high level touch around the basket thus far. While it's important to note that he is young for a sophomore, he's still a sophomore, so the sample size against college competition is fairly large.

Earlier in the year I was quite out on him, I'm a bit more in now, but I'm not sure I'd go ''sell off Jrue and Ball and go all in on Kira''.

Well, yes, get rid of Ball, but the Jrue part is a no thank you.

Glad to see you slowly coming to the dark side.

That 6'3" frame will get stronger. Dont worry about that.

[Darkhorse985]

It seems to me that the general consensus is the #2 option on this post as the team has hired a compete now coach in SVG. So, with Jrue and JJ likely starting the season on the Pels roster, who will be the starting center? Will the team re-sign Derrick Favors or possibly use MLE money to pursue a center like Baynes or Meyers Leonard?

[msusousaphone]

Sounds boring, but I exercise some bird law on Favors and Okafor and roll back out with that rotation and Hayes. Favors seems like the type of big SVG would love and seeing what Okafor can turn into with SVG and the teased staff hires super excites me.

I would also love it if we let one or both of the above guys walk and got Christian Wood back in the fold. Whiteside is my pipedream. Tristan Thompson is my dark horse that I wouldn't mind but I'm sure will make others groan. I really want Okafor back so getting a good rim protecting/rebounding vet to anchor the young guys and show them some examples would be my direction, as opposed to a shooter/scoring machine.