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Thread: Jrue Holliday is everyone's "missing piece"

  1. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    What about sending Jrue to GSW?

    GSW receive: Jrue Holiday and Darius Miller and a future 2022 1st rounder.

    PELS receive: Andrew Wiggins, Marquese Chriss and the 2nd pick of the draft.

    Draft Lamelo Ball and with the 13th pick get Vernon Carey the center from Duke.

    lineup:

    PG: Lonzo Ball, Lamelo Ball
    SG: Ingram, Reddick, NAW
    SF: Wiggins, Hart
    PF: Zion, Melli
    C: Hayes, Chriss, Carey

    You could also try Lamelo at pg and Lonzo at SG

    What do y?all think?


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    Absolutely not.

    Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

    Next up, Wiggins sucks.

    In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

    And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.
    Basketball.

  2. #127
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Absolutely not.

    Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

    Next up, Wiggins sucks.

    In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

    And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.
    Would you move Jrue to NETS for Spencer Dinwiddie and Jarret Allen?

    Or Jrue, Miller, and Okafor and 2023 1st to GSW for Draymond Green? They probably wouldn?t do that though.

    Or Jrue, Melli, and Miller to Denver for Barton, MPG and Denver?s 2020 1st round pick?

    Or Jrue to Clippers for Paul George?


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  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    Would you move Jrue to NETS for Spencer Dinwiddie and Jarret Allen?

    Or Jrue, Miller, and Okafor and 2023 1st to GSW for Draymond Green? They probably wouldn?t do that though.

    Or Jrue, Melli, and Miller to Denver for Barton, MPG and Denver?s 2020 1st round pick?

    Or Jrue to Clippers for Paul George?


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    Probably not honestly.

    1) Dinwiddie is basically Jrue's age and is due a huge payday.

    2) Draymond is older than Jrue I think, and is also on a big contract, and also why would I add a first?

    3) Will Barton is good but not that good, my feelings on MPJ are detailed in this thread, Denver's picks are very late.

    4) Don't trust PG13 as far as I can throw him. Playoff P.

    I feel like if I'm trading Jrue, I want someone back that I can imagine actually being on the roster in a few years and who is a solid player. I'm not particularly looking for a big because we have Jax, and while Zion isn't a ''big'' he plays the PF position anyway. My preference would be for a guard because we're losing Jrue and he's our only guy who can actually run offense in the half-court, although a pick or two can loosen that requirement somewhat because then you can try and draft a guard.

    This is, of course, assuming that we move Jrue which I don't think is necessarily something we should do anyway.

  4. #129
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Probably not honestly.

    1) Dinwiddie is basically Jrue's age and is due a huge payday.

    2) Draymond is older than Jrue I think, and is also on a big contract, and also why would I add a first?

    3) Will Barton is good but not that good, my feelings on MPJ are detailed in this thread, Denver's picks are very late.

    4) Don't trust PG13 as far as I can throw him. Playoff P.

    I feel like if I'm trading Jrue, I want someone back that I can imagine actually being on the roster in a few years and who is a solid player. I'm not particularly looking for a big because we have Jax, and while Zion isn't a ''big'' he plays the PF position anyway. My preference would be for a guard because we're losing Jrue and he's our only guy who can actually run offense in the half-court, although a pick or two can loosen that requirement somewhat because then you can try and draft a guard.

    This is, of course, assuming that we move Jrue which I don't think is necessarily something we should do anyway.
    What about a trade to the pacers for victor olidipo


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  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    What about a trade to the pacers for victor olidipo


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    Holiday and Redick for Oladipo (on an expiring 1 year deal) and Turner all day.

  6. #131
    Absolutely zero interest in Oladipo.

    Again, not much younger than Jrue, but also has been awful for several years. The reason for this is largely that his body has been periodically exploding over the last few seasons. He's barely played and when he has he's looked bad.

    I'm not betting that he returns to a high level, and even if he does, do I want him to be taking 18 shots a game and being the primary ballhandler on this team? No I don't. I'm not looking to acquire a first or second option that is going to stunt Zion's development by taking all the ball-handling reps.

  7. #132
    Buddy Hield wants out of Sac...

    https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-...005134015.html


    27yrs old, 19.2 pts/game, 4.6 reb, 3 asst, .394 from three on 9.6 attempts per game...

  8. #133
    Buddy is an incredible, all time level shooter.

    That is literally all he is. Mediocre passer, poor defender, does really get to the basket at all, doesn't really have a developed in between game, doesn't really playmake for others, doesn't get to the line.

    He's a good roleplayer, and his shooting really is elite and very valuable. It's not $24m next year valuable.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCal4Pels View Post
    Buddy Hield wants out of Sac...

    https://sports.yahoo.com/sacramento-...005134015.html


    27yrs old, 19.2 pts/game, 4.6 reb, 3 asst, .394 from three on 9.6 attempts per game...
    Throw in your number one and we can talk.

    Then we could trade 12 / 13 to get a top five pick (LeMelo, Avdija, or Hayes)

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Absolutely not.

    Firstly, Lamelo is generally predicted to go #1, so if you're trading up to #2 with the hopes of getting Lamelo you have to recognise that that is far from a likely outcome. Secondly, I wouldn't be drafting Lamelo top 3 anyway, I don't rate his top end outcomes highly enough and I think his bust potential is higher than many are willing to admit. Not saying he could never be a star, he does have some ridiculous outlier skills, but I don't rate it probable enough to justify this trade or drafting him at that spot.

    Next up, Wiggins sucks.

    In this situation, we're moving the best player and the best pick (2022 is looking to be a pretty good draft whereas this one is notably poor, therefore acquiring higher picks in it is not a great value play in general) and getting nothing of even close to fair value in return.

    And Vernon Carey isn't a first round pick.
    Yeah but I feel like you're overlooking the addition of Chriss in this trade.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Yeah but I feel like you're overlooking the addition of Chriss in this trade.
    Chriss is not a deal-making calibre player.

  12. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Chriss is not a deal-making calibre player.
    Which, based on the rest of your analysis, would make him the centerpiece of this proposed trade!

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Which, based on the rest of your analysis, would make him the centerpiece of this proposed trade!
    ...what?

  14. #139
    This trade idea is a modification of several shown on web. Would you do it? If not, what then?

    Heat gets: JRUE HOLIDAY

    Pelicans get: DUNCAN ROBINSON, KENDRICK NUNN, KELLY OLYNYK, and MIA's 2020 first round pick.

  15. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    This trade idea is a modification of several shown on web. Would you do it? If not, what then?

    Heat gets: JRUE HOLIDAY

    Pelicans get: DUNCAN ROBINSON, KENDRICK NUNN, KELLY OLYNYK, and MIA's 2020 first round pick.
    I dont think Griff does that one, but I would if we can send Nunn off for something of value. Like, can I send he and JJ to Milwaukee for Bledsoe?

    Lonzo-Bledsoe-Ingram-Zion-Olynyk

    Hart, Melli and Robinson as main bench guys. Still got my MLE. Hope a young guy or two can be solid rotation guy (between Frank, NAW, and Hayes). Got picks 13, 20, 39, 42, and 60 to move around with. Can be competitive this year. Have lots of expirings and/or deals with 2 years left if right guy comes available.

    I would do that deal. If you trade Jrue, you are trading JJ
    @mcnamara247

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara View Post
    I dont think Griff does that one, but I would if we can send Nunn off for something of value. Like, can I send he and JJ to Milwaukee for Bledsoe?

    Lonzo-Bledsoe-Ingram-Zion-Olynyk

    Hart, Melli and Robinson as main bench guys. Still got my MLE. Hope a young guy or two can be solid rotation guy (between Frank, NAW, and Hayes). Got picks 13, 20, 39, 42, and 60 to move around with. Can be competitive this year. Have lots of expirings and/or deals with 2 years left if right guy comes available.

    I would do that deal. If you trade Jrue, you are trading JJ
    Getting Robinson and Olynyk 3pt shooting make JJ redundant anyway. And the Bledsoe deal would be okay but I hope Griff has the chips necessary for the VanVleet BID

  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Nail View Post
    Getting Robinson and Olynyk 3pt shooting make JJ redundant anyway. And the Bledsoe deal would be okay but I hope Griff has the chips necessary for the VanVleet BID
    I don't think Vanvleet is going to have success outside of TO. If you don't enjoy the art of green lighting horrible shots and making them. Then, Vanvleet will be incredibly frustrating to watch on a bad team.

  18. #143
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Are we going to re-sign Favors? What do we do with Okafor, Frank Jackson, Moore, Kenny, ???


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  19. #144
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    I say we get the right coach for Ball, Ingram and Zion. Focus heavily on Ball attacking the basket. No more finesse bs. Get angry and attack the basket. Lonzo is very athletic. He needs to eat more and put on 10-15 lbs of muscle. He really should weigh 210. If he could put on more muscle I think he could go to the basket without fear. If he solves that one problem he could be a perennial All Star. Improve FT shooting to 70 percent and ATTACK the rim so we can run the pnr in half court. If Lonzo can?t improve a lot in this area we need to move him. His improvement will change this team so much.


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  20. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    I say we get the right coach for Ball, Ingram and Zion. Focus heavily on Ball attacking the basket. No more finesse bs. Get angry and attack the basket. Lonzo is very athletic. He needs to eat more and put on 10-15 lbs of muscle. He really should weigh 210. If he could put on more muscle I think he could go to the basket without fear. If he solves that one problem he could be a perennial All Star. Improve FT shooting to 70 percent and ATTACK the rim so we can run the pnr in half court. If Lonzo can?t improve a lot in this area we need to move him. His improvement will change this team so much.


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    You make it sound so easy, but when you break it down it's astounding how significant those changes actually are.

    1) Put on quite a lot of good quality muscle.
    2) Improve at essentially all half-court offense, from driving to general pick and roll skills
    3) Improve FT shooting by 20% or more

    Like, that's a lot. That's something that makes you look at an 18 year old entering the draft with some side-eyes.

  21. #146
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    You make it sound so easy, but when you break it down it's astounding how significant those changes actually are.

    1) Put on quite a lot of good quality muscle.
    2) Improve at essentially all half-court offense, from driving to general pick and roll skills
    3) Improve FT shooting by 20% or more

    Like, that's a lot. That's something that makes you look at an 18 year old entering the draft with some side-eyes.
    It?s not easy. And it?s not likely. But, it?s not good to have a pg who can?t drive to the basket. Something has to change.


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  22. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    It?s not easy. And it?s not likely. But, it?s not good to have a pg who can?t drive to the basket. Something has to change.


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    Well absolutely, the ability to drive is fundamental for a lead ball handler in today's NBA. But I'd rather just move Lonzo than cross my fingers and hope he figures out multiple major, gaping holes in his game within the next year or so.

  23. #148
    Unfortunately with Lonzo, as I have posted a few times, his issues are primarily mental. Talent can override this if you are a specialist or role-player, but not the starting PG/floor general. If management is smart, they will see this as well, and hopefully get value for him before the rest of the league takes too much notice.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    ...what?
    Just a joke man...you (correctly) trashed every other part of this deal.

  25. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    Just a joke man...you (correctly) trashed every other part of this deal.
    *shrug* not my fault the deal's bad

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