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Workshopping Pels/Nuggets trade ideas with @NBABlackburn, and this is one we both said yes to: pic.twitter.com/taHGYXsmxO
— Mason Ginsberg (@MasonGinsberg) August 24, 2020
Might as well drop this in here as well just to see what people think.
Not entirely decided on it myself at the minute to be honest.
Basketball.
None of us are NBA GM’s so we have no real idea of what he is actually worth. It’s up to Griffin to get the best package he can get if he decides to do so. This is why I tend to not suggest trade ideas and such. We are not NBA GM’s. I cannot emphasize that enoughOriginally Posted by Pelicanidae
Sure, but I would hope everyone is aware that when they're talking about trades, potential coaching hires, drafting, etc, they're not actually a GM and that their opinions are always at least somewhat incomplete. For example, while I have access to all the same game tape as a GM or team drafting department when it comes to the draft, I don't have the ability to go talk to their coach or to them and find out the details about their work ethic or their aspirations or how they take criticism and whatnot. Sometimes that information leaks, but usually it's something that I have no access to, so I prefer not to speculate on it and just stick to the stuff that's public information.
The same is true for trades. I'm fully aware that when I say that X trade is poor value for Jrue, that's my evaluation based on Jrue's play and the publicly available information about the team. For all we know, Griff has some super secret magic plan that requires him to make a bad trade with Jrue, as part of a 4D chess game. Certainly that's possible. But since I don't know that, I'm just talking about trades as-they-are, on the basis of what we can know.
IMO we should not trade Jrue. Don’t forget what he did just a year ago to both CJ and Lillard in the playoffs. He offers this team so many things that we do not have without him. I’m NAWs biggest fan but moving Jrue so he can get a few more minutes does not make this team better. His time will come and Jrues will eventually go. I don’t see us getting anything in return that helps this team the way Jrue does. As it is we already have enough draft picks to grab players and make trades. This team simply needs to grow together and develop while improving through the draft. We are 1-2 more players like NAW and Hayes in the draft from being absolutely stacked. Have patience and let this team grow which we did not do with AD and we weren’t even close to being as stacked then as we are now with young talent.
I'd make a case that some actual GM's aren't GM's. Some of the decisions they make are so poor I rather trust my franchise to highly educated fans. Brand ruined the Sixers in one off season.
Fans don't have to deal with a little thing called reality. They can come up with all their ideas and trades in a vacuum, not knowing if other parties would agree.
We saw fan and smart people crowd sourcing once before, as the Kings did it with their draft. They suggested Elfrid Payton or Stauskus as the pick. Thats what their numbers told them.
Also, every fan you think is smart - each front office has five people in their office ten times smarter with access to more numbers and video with context than any person not working in the league would have access to
In a league of 30, where 29 are destined to fail every year, it is so easy to sit back and think you are smarter, especially when you don't have reality to limit you. When you can repost all your great past ideas that look brilliant now, and conveniently not mention the awful ones you had that would have sunk the team if you had made it and prevented your brilliant one from even being possible
Long story short, this was maybe your worst take ever. And as a Drummond > AD guy, that's saying something
@mcnamara247
Gary Harris makes $20 million a year for the next 2 years, posted a PER of less than 10 this year, and we still have Holiday, Redick, and Hart at SG. Gary Harris is a bad contract. Bol Bol is the definition of “made of chalk.”
If you like this deal, you are a hypocrite.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 08-25-2020 at 10:56 AM.
Denver would laugh at this and then run!!!
A broke down player physically....a broke down player mentally...and a second rounder for 20 a night guy, a promising big man, and a first round draft pick?
Next.
Last edited by As I See It; 08-25-2020 at 11:02 AM.
Who's the 20 a night guy? The guy with $40 million left on his contract? He is not an asset, but a dump of a bad contract. The pick is #22 and BolBol is a project at best.
You are absolutely right...my apologies!!
A broke down player - physically...a broke down player- mentally...and a # 2....
for
A starting 26 YO, playoff guard (currently 12-15 a night)....a 21 YO, 7'2" Center (who plays bigger) and shows the promise to stretch the floor....and a # 1
If I was Denver, I'd be all over it.
You clearly have a bias against Ball that clouds your view. Harris is not an asset. He has been terrible and is owed $40 million. They would have to attach something to him to unload his contract (and that is where the 1st rounder comes from likely in that proposal). Bol Bol is a project. He may have a future or be a career 10-12 minute backup. I would certainly take a chance on him based on his salary and our needs. He is not untouchable though. Miller is simply a salary filler. The key would be whether the Nuggets see Ball as an asset or not. It is not as lopsided of a deal as you make it out to be. The pick is a late pick in a bad draft, so does not swing the pendulum much. I would prefer the pick to be in a future year with some protection on it.
That's so unfair. I have bias against no one. I only know what my eyes (hence my brain) tells me and what the numbers and results say. For his sake, I hope the guy becomes a legend. But right now, the man can't even make a lay up...never mind a 15 foot uncontested free throw. That's not bias....THAT'S FACT.
Some might look at this as "bias'....
"I would not want him anywhere near this locker room with our young players."
Last edited by As I See It; 08-25-2020 at 01:04 PM.
Lol. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings guy.
There are some front office decisions that are obviously terrible even to the more basic fan. Clearly in an inexact science such as player evaluation or team fit even a blind monkey could make the right call. However some of these franchises would be no worse off having random fans make the front office moves because the actual decision makers are so poor they ruin francises. How else do you explain a move like the Sixers maxing out Tobias Harris? What reality lead that that God awful decisions. Where were all these front office genius to talk Brand(or whoever let that happen) off that terrible deal? I get there are people who put a ton of work into making these decisions, but some are just absolute trash. There's no way around it.
Will admit... This has turned into the worst rabit hole of what ifs discussion.
Well, yes, MM did get involved. That'll generally do it.
I don’t know, I think that this thread has been very interesting so far.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
The Sixers were the 2nd favorite in the East, 4th overall favorite heading into this season. Very smart people like Zach Lowe, and many others, predicted a Finals appearance. Yes, you get the gift of hindsight to call Brand an idiot. This is the gift of the all too smart fan. But I guarantee that if you sat in a room with any coach in the league or any front office, you would learn VERY quickly how little you truly know.
Did Jamal Murray die? Why would they waste assets on Lonzo?
Firstly, what they would gain in this trade is mostly getting off Gary Harris' awful salary ($19 million a year for the same ppg as Lonzo lol).
Secondly, while Lonzo has a ton of flaws (really, so many) they don't need a lead guard or a lead playmaker because they have Murray and Jokic. What they do desperately need is a capable wing defender, and Lonzo has shown he can be that (even if he was kind of bad at it this year). Adding a solid wing defender, decent shooter, and getting of Harris' contract is their get.
Obviously for us, we'd be taking Harris' deal essentially as a dump, but we'd get a stretch big to put next to Zion and another pick that we could either move along or use.
That introduces the other issue of Bol Bol being a very limited defender due to his lateral movement issues and his high hips, combined with lack of mass in the paint, which doesn't really help us massively on that end of the floor but you can't win everything.
If we are talking trading with Denver, I’ll throw one out there.
Denver gets Jrue Holiday
Pels get Gary Harris, Michael Porter Jr., Bol Bol and Houston’s 2020 1st
We take Denver’s bad contract in Harris in exchange for
2 up and coming players and a 1st
Denver gets their elite wing defender/3rd offensive option to attempt to actually make a playoff run. I don’t think they will, but they have to add something to actually compete in the West.
Lineup:
Ball/NAW
Redick/Harris
Porter Jr./Hart
Ingram/Melli
Williamson/Hayes/Bol Bol
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 08-26-2020 at 12:25 AM.
Yeah ok....LOL
The main issue I have with that trade is that we lose our single best vet and defender in exchange for 3 more young guys, none of whom can play defense.
I get that there's free agency and the draft and there could be other trades, but man, if people thought the defense this year was frustrating
And who of these players can play defense? Ball?
Collectively, we'd have the worst defending fives of all time. PnR against us would be a perpetual turnstile. Then, think Lebron against JJ or BI against AD
Last edited by As I See It; 08-26-2020 at 02:24 AM.
I mean, Ball plays a bit of defense. Hart is pretty solid. We hope Zion will improve the way we expect him to next year. Hayes should be improving too.
But yeah you're right bottom 5 defense right there.
I was more pointing out that Denver would not trade MPJ.The main issue I have with that trade is that we lose our single best vet and defender in exchange for 3 more young guys, none of whom can play defense.
I get that there's free agency and the draft and there could be other trades, but man, if people thought the defense this year was frustrating
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