Westbrick is in peak playoff form...
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Westbrick is in peak playoff form...
This Portland team is not the one we beat. When healthy those dogs can hunt.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Ditto. I’m not into baseball, hockey, or golf, so those summer months are similar to these last few months where we didn’t have any sports.Originally Posted by donato
You can forget about shortening the season until the union contract is up. There is no way the owners (or the networks) will eat full NBA Player Salaries under that scenario. And the players will never acquiesce. Players wouldn't give up a dime of their own money for the good of the whole...look how they feel about Nike sweat shops in China.
Last edited by As I See It; 08-05-2020 at 01:03 AM.
Personally, and I think I'm the only one who thinks this, but in a perfect world the NBA season would have more games, and there would be barely any off season. Like, 100 regular season games and then a 6 week break in which free agency, the draft, etc, all happened, and then we're back.
In reality there are a hundred reasons this would be a terrible idea, including player health, but in terms of me just constantly having basketball to watch, it would be neat.
Basketball.
I see much more in Ball than NAW and he is only a year older. However, there is the financial part of the equation. I have a feeling he may be tough to re-sign as he may have an inflated expectation of a very large contract.
This is my biggest concern about Lonzo as well. I think his name and reputation alone may drive up his asking price. However, I believe (probably naively) that since he seems like such a great fit with Zion and has improved so much under our coaching staff that he may take a somewhat reasonable deal. My dream is something like 13/year, but anything under 20 would be palatable.
I think there's some starting points for his contract in recent history that you can point to. Marcus Smart was a disappointment offensively as a former 6th overall pick, but was obviously an elite defender. He got an average 13 mil per year. I think Lonzo has been slightly better at this point in his career than Smart had.
Oladipo, on the other hand, a former 3rd overall pick that received an average 21 mil per year, but he was a better all around player at that point in his career than Lonzo is (he was also 3 years older).
Ball's best number is more than likely a 17-18 mil per year contract, but I could see him betting on himself and either taking shorter deal, or doing a very incentive-laden deal. Something like 2 years 35 mil with a 20 mil PO in the 3rd year would probably make alot of sense for both parties. It's an unconventional deal, but Ball is an unconventional player
I am curious as to why most people say things like: He is a GREAT fit with Zion. Or many have told me a PERFECT fit...
Why? Because he throws him 3- 4 good lobs a game? There are 100 possessions in a game. The lobs make the highlights but on the other possessions I would prefer a guard who can run the pick and roll with him and can pull up from 30 if the guard drops under or be a legit threat to attack the rim and finish (or at least make free throws) if the big switches or hedges
I think people value the highlight passes too.much. That won't be available in crunch time and doesn't matter for a high percent of possessions. If I were designing the perfect guqrd for Zion, it wouldn't look anything like Lonzo. At least not on offense
@mcnamara247
If I were designing the perfect guard to play with Zion it wouldn't look like Lonzo, but then, it wouldn't look much like any other guard in the NBA right now. I'd be designing a 6'7 Damian Lillard type pullup shooter with Jrue's defense and Steve Nash's passing bolted on for good measure.
But in terms of guards who are actually out there and somewhat acquirable (in this case, easily acquired since we already have him), I do think Lonzo is at least a strong fit on paper. Of course when you move away from paper and put Lonzo into the game his weaknesses are the kind of that magnify each other and things get a little messier, and you're right that his inability to run the PnR or be a legitimate off-the-dribble drive threat seriously hinder his value.
Something like 3/$57 or 4/$72 seems about what I would expect.
Okay, forget about perfect because people use that word too loosely anyway
If you were to lay out the 4 or 5 most important traits you think a guard needs to have to fit with Ingram and Zion, where would Lonzo rank percentile wise in each of those categories relative to other starting guards?
Though it pains me to say this, probably the most complete point guard currently on the team is Jrue Holiday.
You simply can't trust LB with the ball in hands in end of game situations. He a life time sub 40% shooter (he's the same shooter he was in LA....check the numbers). He's a lifetime, sub 50% foul shooter (check it out...up a tad this year). He can't finish at the rim, so our PnR's are pretty much one dimensional. While he has solid baseline to baseline offensive skills (still can't finish at the rim), he gives you nothing in the half court other than an occasional 3 pointer (through no credit of his own). While he leads the team in assists, it's only by hair over Holiday. Plus...he's turning over the ball more here in New Orleans more than he did in LA. He's hot garbage!!
Take the starting point guards in the league and compare one on one. There are very few who he would best.
Last edited by As I See It; 08-05-2020 at 02:40 PM.
the 2 players right now that i see fit with zion and ingram are cp3 and harden.....on offense you have to respect every part of their game and in a pnr offense with zion would just kill all morale on any team we play...maybe teague is a PG ill pair with zion also.......
i dont know any player who is out there with cp3 or harden skills on the cheap but if a player is out there then i would pair that PG with zion.....
De'Aaron Fox is the guy I would bet on that is currently at fringe all star level that could potentially be an all nba type. His ability to get to the line would be a tremendous addition next to Zion and BI, and he's obviously incredible in transition. He hasn't been great in the half court yet in his career, but I'd be way more confident in him developing into a PnR threat than Lonzo.
Fox has the elite traits that you look for in a superstar with his combination of speed, leaping ability, and hes already a good finisher. Where he's struggled is with his inconsistent 3 point shot.
But again, he was in the 100% percentile the past 2 seasons at shooting foul percentage, per cleaning the glass. This guy could be the next Harden, and he's basically being wasted by Sacramento's pace.
They have the ball in their hands way too much and dont love playing off the ball. Zion needs touches to develop into an eventual Giannis level creator. No way would I bring in a guy who holds the ball all possession. If we are talking PERFECT, Curry is the obvious choice, as he loves to play off ball, get handoffs, etc.
But a realistic semi perfect guy would be Van Vleet IMO. Can create a bit but also is good off ball, needs to be respected as a catch and shoot guy and is mentally tough as heck. If we had Van Vleet and were facing the decision we are with Lonzo, I'd happily pay him 20+ mil and feel fine about it. I dont feel good about Lonzo's next contract at all right now
I second Van Vleet love. He's on the shorter side, of course, but he absolutely scraps on defense and he's a legitimate on and off ball player. He can make his own shot, he's a competent finisher at the rim on decent volume (not incredible but not bottom of the league), he's a legitimate shooter both off the catch and the pull up (39.4% on his career on high volume; 39.5% this year on 7.1 a game), and has improved as a passer over the last few years. You wouldn't trust him to be the engine of an offense, but as a guy who can do some secondary creation for himself and others, that's absolutely in the wheelhouse.
And he's 25. Fits the age range, plus he comes from a winning system; dude was a huge part of the Raptors chip last year.
Sadly I think the Raptors recognise all of this and will want to keep him, but I'd love to scoop him up.
I like this exercise. In no particular order I think the 5 most important attributes for a PG next to Zion are: pick and roll orchestrator, spot up shooting, point of attack defense, ability to push in transition, and versatility on both sides of the ball (because Zion plays so many different and fluid roles on the court).
Which makes Lonzo a very interesting case to me because he's borderline transcendent at one of those (transition), good at PoA defense, solid (and, hopefully, improving) at spot up shooting and versatility (Zo can play on and off ball a bit and can switch 1-3 on defense), and then Godawful in the pick and roll.
I'm sure there are some better fits out there who check more boxes, but none that immediately come to mind that are available. Someone mentioned Fox, who I would murder to get, but I can't imagine Sac gives him up for anything less than a firstborn. Maybe Rubio after he's done in Phoenix? Make a play for Conley and pray that he reverts back to his Memphis form (but that contract is... a lot)?
Edit: big fan of the Van Vleet suggestion
Would love VanVleet on this team. However, I do not see him as a realistic target. The Raptors will not let him go. He and Jrue on the same team would be unbelievable. He has heart and grit.
I would honestly love to watch that defensive combo so much. Van Vleet and Lowry is fun enough as it is, but on a team I actually support, with Jrue? Yes please.
Just a reminder that FVV and NAW's rookie season stats are super similar. Don't give up on your young guys. Give them the requisite minutes they need to develop and succeed
Yeah, and there are probably 100 guys with the same rookie stats as FVV who amounted to nothing. He would be the outlier. And betting on another outlier would be a bad bet.
Not thats impossible but this is the type of things fans do when they have bias. If a guy was that bad on another team, you'd probably write him off. But when its your favorite team, you go and find another player who was as bad that ended up good and say, "its possible he can be this!"
And I don't mean you as in you specifically. It's a universal fan thing. But the great GMs are able to remove things like optimism bias. Something Dell could never do early in his tenure and it burned him time and time again
Yea I'm not saying that NAW is going to be anything. Just saying that if we're going to find an FVV through the draft, we have to stick through the lumps. We may not see 1st year success.
OH, I agree. You keep taking shots, keep giving guys opportunities. But you also have to be disciplined enough to cut bait faster than most and create oppotunities for the next guy to see if he can become FVV
High key... I love afternoon and 5:30 games.
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