https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ire-Third-Star
Could be interesting adding Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen and possibly Spencer Dinwiddie
Could just be a crazy rumor?
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Nets looking to add Jrue???
https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ire-Third-Star
Could be interesting adding Caris LeVert and Jarrett Allen and possibly Spencer Dinwiddie
Could just be a crazy rumor?
I cant think of a type of player we need less than Levert. Allen is a lower ceiling Hayes that will be paid sooner.Originally Posted by Butters
Only way I'd be interested in Nets is if it's a 3 teamer and I get pieces that actually fit with my core. Need low volume, defensively versatile guys who can catch and shoot from 3. Nets pieces dont fit that
@mcnamara247
Probably just a crazy rumour. In any case, not interested; I actually agree with MM that LeVert is totally uninteresting, and I also agree that Allen could be made irrelevant by Hayes within the span of his rookie deal.
Basketball.
Make no mistake, Nets are interested. They were interested prior to the deadline and will be when trade market opens back up but they don't have the things the Pels want/need. Prince fits somewhat, so if you could move Levert somewhere for a great shooter or two, plus you got Prince and maybe some far out future picks, then we can talk. But it wouldn't be this offseason. It would be next trade deadline at earliest
You will see far fewer trades and movement this offseason than ever because you won't have 10+ teams coming off a season they deem unsuccessfullike we normally do. Disappointment breeds aggressiveness, but nobody was devastated this postseason (if the season is cancelled). Or, even if we do have some sort of makeshift playoffs, the teams that lose will blame the conditions on the loss -- our guys were too rusty, there were no fans so the results were different than they would have been, etc.
Big moves come from disappointment, failing to meet expectations, revelations that the roster doesn't work as constructed in a playoff series, etc. With this stuff going on, expect to see a lot of status quo going into next season
Oh, I'm sure they're interested. I just also know a bunch of teams are interested, and I don't see much reason to give this one more credence overall. Maybe I'm wrong to be so dismissive, but I'm okay with taking that risk here.
Generally though, I agree with regards to seeing things stay pretty much where they are. There'll be a few moves, inevitably, mostly around the margins and potentially surrounding the draft (I can't see us going into this draft with 3 second round picks and using them all, for example; would be poor value) but I don't think there will be much groundbreaking going on, if anything.
Look I'm not going to complain as I like having you around, but I have to ask.
Did your your 'Elite board' get Corona?
On a more serious note:
Would a sign and trade with Joe Harris be something that could be had?
Harris, Prince and a future 1st for Jrue could work.
Last edited by AUSSIE_PELICAN; 03-30-2020 at 06:19 PM.
With Didi in the wings, the possibility of bringing in another long-distance 'Big' (to go along with Melli), the surprising development of BI and Ball as solid long distance options, and knowing his defensive weaknesses, I believe that JJ could. and will, be moved. There certainly would be a market for him (possibly a contender or pseudo-contender) that could attract a nice return. Dumping both Reddick's and Favor's contracts (along with the others we often talk about) could position the team for the opportunity to obtain a solid All-Star type to complement the team's style of play.
Hence my push to retain Holiday and make a play for Danilo Gallinari.
Last edited by As I See It; 03-30-2020 at 06:32 PM.
More convo on the elite board than ever before, actually. I just have more time to bounce around other places, write pieces, etc. Restaurants are drive thru only now
Sign and trade, while also packaging other pieces are so hard to do - which is why I cant name two in the history of the NBA, and not that was in a trade for a good player. Way too difficult. So "COULD" it happen? Sure, but history says almost everything else is more likely
And what's the most you'd pay Holiday on his next contract? And if the bidding goes over that number, are you good just letting him walk for nothing?
My feeling is he gets something in the neighborhood of 4/120. You good with paying that, knowing Ingrams max will be on the books too, Zo's next contract will be on there, and Zion's max will start before Jrue's contract ends?
Not saying the answer is no -- but nothing is in a vacuum. You gotta answer not only if you wanna keep Jrue now vs the trade packages he could get but also saying no to trades for him basically locks you into either: Paying him big money and likely getting poor ROI at the end of his contract or letting him walk and getting nothing
I rather not waste a roster spot on Dinwinddle.
The biggest conundrum is that Jrue is gonna age himself out of our core relatively quick. His All-Pro defense is gonna decline and once that decline happens... He'll be a mediocre shooter and terrific slasher that lost his step on defense.
So, it's really a conflict of diminished returns and sustainability. Jared Allen is a short term plug while Jaxson Hayes still need atleast another year to develop into a starting caliber player. Jared Allen would feel a need and strength our lack of bigs, but he isn't the answer to physical centers and provides no spacing. So, it would gambling on potential(21 years old says that is still a good gamble). The consensus is that Allen is already is leaving. So, why trade for someone that could had for much less.
Now onto to Levert. If we could live in a perfect world where Levert is healthy and he gets the much needed development that sorely lacking for a 25 year old "Mini-Superstar". I could see us as the perfect landing spot when it comes to trouble underdeveloped players. Is he worth Jrue Holiday? Simple answer is No. He doesn't have a Veteran presence or high caliber defender that we lose in Jrue. Jrue would still be a Levert quality offensive player if his defense declines. So, what is the point of trading for that now?
So, unless they sweeten the deal with another awful Celtics trade for Jrue. I pass. Get Josh Allen for peanuts.
Last edited by Taker597; 03-30-2020 at 11:10 PM.
There are a lot of moving parts but I'll give this a shot.....
Jrue will become a free agent in 2022.....
1. That's the same time that James Harden, Jimmy Butler, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook, Kemba Walker, and Stephon Curry (all established All Stars) are scheduled to hit the market.
2. Players like Zach Levine, Gary Harris, and Marcus Smart (all much younger than Jrue Holiday) are also scheduled to hit the market.
3. Some players will becoming RFA's or playing out their rookie contracts. Chief among these players will be Luka Doncic, Ja Morant, Trae Young, and SGA.
4. Now I haven't even mentioned Chris Paul, John Wall, or Ricky Rubio who may or may not enter the equation.
My feeling is that with the glut of guard talent potentially available in 2022, I don't see how Holiday could command top dollar; there probably will be more players being shopped than there will be teams shopping.
This said, I think Holiday would be wise to extend next year before he hits free agency. That will provide him with financial security and, obviously, extend the Pelicans' control over his playing rights.
ONCE AGAIN: This is how we sit today. There are a lot of moving parts. Some players will enter the picture that aren't mentioned, and others who are mentioned may fall aside.
Last edited by As I See It; 03-30-2020 at 09:59 PM.
Your whole post starts off with a major error and the rest is irrelevant because of it
Jrue will be a FA in 2021. He will opt out and get one last long term contract that summer. And he will be eligible to start at up to 35% of the cap because of tenure. So, his max would be an average of over 40 mil per year
At a similar point in his career, with a lower cap, as an (arguably) lesser player Kyle Lowry got 3/100
I would put a 10%, maybe 15%, margin of error on my prediction -- both ways mind you -- but he is going to demand a massive contract in the summer of 2021. Its his last pay day. He wont come cheap
As I said in the start of my post and at the end of my post, 'THERE ARE A LOT OF MOVING PARTS'. As we speak, he has neither indicated that he will be opting out or playing it out (I don't even think we know, definitively, what the CAP is for 21/22). But what we do know is that his contract, as written, runs through the 21/22 season and then he would be an UFA. If he has indicated he will be opting out, indeed, I stand corrected, but I don't think he has.
If prior to next season, he gives no indication as to what his plans are, things obviously change.
But its not a maybe, at least not in a 50/50 sense. Closer to 99% of good players opt out of their player option.
The only way he doesn't is if he has a major injury next season - at which point its all a moot point because in that scenario you also failed to move him before his value hit an all time low.
So, again -- your only options are: Trade him this summer (or prior to deadline), keep him and pay him big in summer of 2021, or keep him and lose him in the summer of 2021
Those are the three options. You can not create a 4th (keep him and get him to return at a discount) just because that is what you want to happen. We all want the best of two worlds, but a GM can not be an optimist. They have to be a realist and these are Griffin's 3 realistic options
Given the number of players hitting the free-agency in 2021 and the fact that the cap salary migtht take a huge hit with the current situation of the league and the uncertain forecasts for next year (some scientists are expecting a second wave of the virus at the end of the year, if the collective immunity is not established by then it might be another problem), I'm not sure a huge pay is a 99% sure thing for Jrue.
I agree he has strong incentive to opt-out but I see scenarii where he could prefer to opt-in.
Jure gave the team a break on his current deal. Like MM said three options. IF NO INJURY, he will demand 40+mil. There is 0% chance he opts in.
I don’t see us exploring a Nets deal too much, but it now makes even more sense to move Jrue with the lockdown. He will be on the wrong side of 30 soon, and while some primes end later than others, I’m not sure I’d want to bank a big money contract on Jrue when we have so many people to pay. Most of his value (for this season at least) depended on whether we were bound for the postseason or not. We were close, but that reality is gone. Find some value while we can.
I’d do a three team trade with the Kings to get us Buddy Hield back. Let the Kings get Lavert and Allen and we can maybe send a first rounder.
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He should've already been gone. I hope we trade him before next season starts, whenever that is.
I would bet almost any amount of money we wont move him this offseason. The truly unfortunate part of the Zion injury, aside from not getting to see him play, is that Griffin doesnt have enough data to make definitive conclusions about who fits and who doesnt. So, he will make very minor changes this offseason and get more data at the beginning of next season before making a decision.
As for Jrue's age, I dont agree that is a sole reason to move him. You dont see great teams will all guys on in the same exact age bracket/timeline. He could be the Iggy (Warriors), the Kendrick Perkins/Nick Collison (OKC), the Kareem when the Lakers had a young Magic/Worthy/Byron, etc etc etc
The idea of having a ton of guys start off age 20-24 and all grow together....its not realistic. You trade Jrue for two really good guys in their young 20s and that is a recipe for disaster as you have a bunch of guys all wanting to get their numbers to lock in a great 2nd contract. No leadership. No knowledge of what it takes to win at this level. It would work on 2K, but not real life
For me, its not age with Jrue, its fit. If he was more Klay offensively - and by that I mean he didnt need dribbles or touches to impact the game on that end -- then, I'd sign up. But he does need to dribble, needs touches, otherwise he has no impact because he doesnt create a ton of space for the team when he is off the ball. Thats the issue. Not the age, especially with how well he takes care of his body. I think he has a better 30s than say Lowry. And look what CP3 is doing in his mid 30s. Its the fit, not the age.
Wouldnt surprise me if they arent talking to his agent already and making the offer they are willing to go with
Biggest concern of losing him is what we lose defensively and replacing that
So in this equation we trade Jrue and a first for Buddy Hield? That's our part of the deal, we lose Jrue and a first and get back Hield?
Nope.
Highly doubt that.
To me, Holiday is a very tricky piece to build a good team around. You can't let him be the lead ball handler since he has deficiency on ball handling and offense initiating, but as a secondary playmaker he can't play in a free-flowing offense because he tend to stall it because of his need to dribble to create his offense.
Now if you're honest, this could be a problem if this team was poised to compete for a championship in the next two years. It's not one for this team. He may be an unperfect fit for the kind of offense Gentry wants to establish, but he won't prevent the team to contend for playoffs. If you want him to stay long-term with the same type of offensive system, I think the only real solution is to see him evolve into a sixth man in the coming years since the lesser talent on second unit will let him more opportunity as a lead ball handler.
Last, I will certainly not trade anything of good value (Jrue + future 1st) for Hield. He's disgruntled and already asked for a trade before the trade deadline. Also I think the issue with Hield could be the same as with Jrue since he really love to keep the ball in his hands.
If we did make him an offer in the offseason...
1. How likely would he be to accept it / how much would it take?
2. How long would we have to keep him before being able to trade him should we want to?
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