NBA ’90s Remakes: Is Zion Williamson a Modern Charles Barkley?

[Nightshade]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7...ion-williamson

"Playing the Role of Charles Barkley: Zion Williamson
No one who watched Barkley in his prime thought they’d ever see a reprise, and the suggestion that Zion can play the role is offensive to some. That’s understandable—Barkley is one of the greatest players ever and did the impossible at his size. He led the league in rebounding when the paint was packed with 7-footers, all while beating guards up the floor and finishing above the rim through any and all contact. There was nobody like him … until now."

"Playing the Role of Marcus Camby: Jaxson Hayes
If Hayes time-traveled back to the ’90s, the jig would be up in mere minutes. Big men aren’t supposed to be this fast. The closest thing the ’90s got was Camby, a rail-thin shot-blocker extraordinaire who got stuck slugging it out with behemoths on the block in games played at a snail’s pace. The next decade would be kinder to Camby—he won a Defensive Player of the Year award and led the league in blocks for three straight seasons with Denver."

Zion does remind me a lot if Barkley except Zion is far more athletic.

[Pelicanidae]

One of the problems with Zion is that he's impossible to really compare to anyone. There are a lot of parts of his game that map fairly well on to other players, but there are very few players overall that seem like plausible matches. Obviously some people have compared him to Lebron James, which I think is fair in terms of explosion and pure athleticism, but not very accurate in terms of play style at all. Some people have compared him to Larry Johnson, which I also see in many ways, but which isn't a perfect fit either.

Barkley is about as good a comparison as anyone else. Like Barkley, Zion is a bowling ball, whose game takes advantage of his fantastic strength and his ability to keep a low centre of gravity to outmuscle others. Like young Barkley, Zion is a monster on the fastbreak, who can handle the ball in transition himself as well as keep the ball moving for others.

There are differences in their game, that's totally true. But I think it's a fair comparison to make.

For me, I think that the only way to really make a fair comparison between Zion and other players is to describe him as a kind of Frankenstein's monster, patched together out of other greats. The best description, in terms of pure athleticism and strength, I've ever seen of Zion still comes from Brian Schroeder, who described him as the exact midway point between Shaq and prime D Rose. Beyond that, though, Zion has immense defensive potential: of course, Barkley was a good defender, but Zion's potential on that end is really at the top of the spectrum. Obviously time will tell if his anticipation and ability to read an offense will translate to the NBA level, but at college Zion showed the signs of a defensive monster that borrows more than a little from Draymond Green.

So if we're saying that Zion has the potential to be a blend of Charles Barkley, Shaq, prime D Rose, and Draymond Green, I think we're in good places.


The problem with Hayes is that he's so raw that it's hard to project. I see why someone might make the Camby comparison, I don't think it's a stupid comparison to make or anything, but what we're really seeing with Hayes is formative years. His game might be truly very different in three, four, five years, as he puts on more muscle, becomes more disciplined, and really works to master that jump shot. Hayes has a fantastically high ceiling, maybe one of the 3 or 4 highest ceilings in this draft to be entirely honest, but there's a long way to go before he gets there completely, and who knows what kind of player we'll be comparing him to then?

Edit: I should say, Hayes is raw in terms of experience and development. In terms of actual skills, he has several skills which are already high level NBA abilities, such as his elite finishing in the paint, his very good FT shooting for a big, his consistent rim running and rolling off of screens, etc. He's raw in terms of experience, and there are aspects of his game which are raw technically as well (rebounding), but he's not completely devoid of ability. He's not a Diallo style ''draft him for his length, maybe he'll have a skill in 5 years'' type guy.

[8th_ward]

Barkley was very athletic and nimble for his size(don't sleep!) Zion has an elite among elites physical ability. I agree its hard to compare to him one guy but LJ and Barkley seem the closest base on size.

[new city champ]

Sir Charles was a 6’4”, 300-pound center at Auburn who nonetheless could jump out of the gym and dominate in the pivot. In the NBA he morphed into a 250-poundish PF who pioneered the “rip n run” style of fast breaking big man. As noted Barkley is a Hall of Famer, one of the greatest to ever play in the league. If Zion can model his game on Chuck’s and rise to his level then the Pels have indeed hit the jack pot.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Sir Charles was a 6’4”, 300-pound center at Auburn who nonetheless could jump out of the gym and dominate in the pivot. In the NBA he morphed into a 250-poundish PF who pioneered the “rip n run” style of fast breaking big man. As noted Barkley is a Hall of Famer, one of the greatest to ever play in the league. If Zion can model his game on Chuck’s and rise to his level then the Pels have indeed hit the jack pot.

6'4"? I've never seen him listed as 6'4". 6'6" maybe.

[GuardianAngel25]

I like this comparison a lot. Where Zion separates from Barkley is his athleticism and 3pr shoot. At worse Zion will be an average 3pt shooter. With his athleticism he should be a better defender with insane versatility to guard near 1-5. Would love to see Zion work with Barkley and Hakeem in the offseason.

[AusPel]

What? No not at all

[new city champ]

A matter of some dispute. Barkley himself has copped to being under 6’5”...

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

A matter of some dispute. Barkley himself has copped to being under 6’5”...

True. I think he also lost that height after major back surgery.

[Pelicanidae]

I know that most of you guys probably don't need reminding, but I find the numbers so mindblowing that it's still worth repeating.

In his peak, which I'm selecting as the 7 year stretch beginning in 1986-7 and lasting until 1992-3, Charles Barkley recorded the following figures over the course of 524 NBA games:

25.5 points per game (13377 total)
12.0 rebounds per game (6278 total)
4.2 assists per game (2194 total)
1.7 steals per game (858 total)
0.9 blocks per game (475 total)
57% from the floor (64% True Shooting)
+17 Net Rating
26.6 PER
.241 Win Shares/48 (102.2 total)
9.1 BPM
56.6 VORP

That's nuts. For that few games. Just look at those advanced stats: .241 WS/48 for a single season is crazy, to sustain it for over 500 games is bonkers. For comparison, .241 WS/48 is the exact WS/48 rate that AD had in the 2017-18 season. Barkley did that for more games than AD has even played yet.

To make it clear how nuts 102.2 Win Shares in that space of time is, 102.2 total career Win Shares currently would rank 78th all time, ahead of Carmelo Anthony (1064 games), Allen Iverson (914 games), Russell Westbrook (821 games), Tracy McGrady (938 games), Andre Iguodala (1108 games), and only .07 total win shares behind Steph Curry (694 games), who's ranked 77th. For that to be achieved in a span of only 564 games is just beyond ridiculous.

For his entire career, Barkley currently sits at 177.21 total Win Shares, good for 13th all time, wedged between David Robinson and Reggie Miller. The top 5 is Kareem, Wilt, Karl Malone, Lebron, and Jordan, in that order.

56.6 VORP, which is a cumulative stat as well, would also rank 28th all time, just ahead of Kevin Durant (55.8 in 849 games) and just behind Pau Gasol (56.8 in 1226 games). In reality, for his entire career, Barkley currently sits at 5th all time in VORP, with a total of 93.53. He's just ahead of Tim Duncan, who had a career 89.31 VORP. The rest of the top 5 is Lebron (129.79), Jordan (104.43), Karl Malone (102.53), and Garnett (93.97).

26.6 PER would rank 4th all time, behind only Jordan, Lebron, and AD (yes, AD currently has the third highest career PER of all time). For his career, Barkley ranks 11th all time in PER.

So basically, Barkley's prime was beyond insane, and even if he only had that period of time in his career and got no credit for any of his other years (many of which were still great years), he'd still be finishing top 100 in WS, and top 30 in VORP.

If Zion could even approximate that, I think we'd all be very, very, very happy fans.

[13 - 3]

Are we saying Zion is fat then? Not that is a bad thing. It worked for both Barkley and Shaq.

[Pelicanidae]

Are we saying Zion is fat then? Not that is a bad thing. It worked for both Barkley and Shaq.

Well, given that Barkley himself has said that Zion is not fat, because he knows fat, and Zion isn't it, I'm going with no.

[8th_ward]

Yep I agree, if Zion gets anywhere near Barkley's (stats) we hit the jackpot. The only thing he missed out on was the ring.

[ml wave]

6'4"? I've never seen him listed as 6'4". 6'6" maybe.

"listed" is the key word in your sentence

[Pilot172000]

I was raised in the Barkley era and I can tell you the man could flat our ball. His shortcomings wont be Zion's because of his size. Barkley couldn't guard because he was 4 inches out of positions sometimes.