| . |
 |
Everyone is drooling over the CLIPPERS starting 5 defense. But, what about the PELS?
Ball
Jrue
Zion
Favors
Hayes
Holy crap!!!! Think about it for a minute....
That lineup could be a top 10 defense, maybe top 5 if they have excellent chemistry.....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ingram will start, Hayes won'tOriginally Posted by pelicanchamp
Yeah, I think it's highly, highly unlikely that Hayes will start at all until at least February. Depending on how the playoffs look, he may get his minutes bumped up at that point and maybe start (coming out early) a few games but there's no way he's starting on opening night.
No way Ingram gets benched either. I've expressed my doubts about Ingram in the past but he was a top 2 pick and if you want to give him the best chance to reach his potential at this point in his career, you've gotta give him that vote of confidence and let him start.
Basketball.
Ingram has insane potential. Playmake, scoring, his three ball was amazing before the clot. Elite length.
I've been on record repping Ingram over Tatum more than once
I can see NAW playing the SF position on the bench as well. He has the size and length to play SF at times especially on the bench. We put Moore at SF in the starting lineups at times. Frank/JJ/NAW at the PG/SG/SF position would be one hell of a trio off the bench. Offensively NAW would likely run the point more then the other 2 but all 3 give us capable scorers and passers. Our team has so much versatility to do near whatever we want. Very excited to see this kid develop. He reminds me a lot of Malcolm Brogdon having a very similar overall skill set. The only difference is NAW is a more gifted natural passer with better vision. It’s early but it sure looks like we hit on all 3 draft picks who will eventually turn into legit NBA starters with each having real talent to be stars.
Ball/NAW/Ingram/Zion/Hayes.. that is absolutely insane to have 5 players under 21 with the talent they all have. We already have a team that can sustain itself for near the next 10 years. Not another team in the NBA that has 5 players at that age much less having the talent of that group.
NAW definitely has the length to play SF
I really see him as our best asset. He's more NBA ready at his position than Zion is
You and me both! I’ll stay on record that Ingram will be the better player with a much higher ceiling then Tatum. Not a SF under 25 years old with his talent. His defense is very under rated as well where he can be a top 5 defender at the SF position as early as next year. His individual defense has been near elite the past 2 years but has played with what has been a terrible team defense. Having Ball and Jrue on the court with him will be huge. Like you said his 3pt shot was very good at 39% in year 2. It took a dive for a little last season but once they finally learned how to use him with Lebron he again jumped over 40%.
Like Griffin said having Ball/Jrue/Ingram on the floor gives you 3 capable playmakers that move the ball when before all we had was Jrue. This team has had such a crazy over haul in such a short period of time. Ingram is going to be a star and I really don’t think he could be in a better place to achieve that. The little crew of Ingram haters around here will not pick every little thing next year like they have been doing. Kids going to be a star! I think he might start off a little rusty do to not being able to play basketball for a long time. I expect to see the player we saw towards the end of last season around the all star break. A 21 year of SF with elite length scoring
19-22ppg/3-6apg/4-7rpg on near 50% FG and 40% 3pt while being a plus defender. I have no doubt we have a top 7 SF in him next season.
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 07-10-2019 at 03:00 AM.
I agree. If he gets decent minutes, like 15-20 minutes, he could prove himself to be a future starter if not future STAR. It’s all on YouTube. It’s all on paper. The kid has it. He’s a natural and he’s the kind of player that doesn’t look like he has any significant weaknesses. We got really lucky imo. I honestly think he’s going to be a star at some point.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Add Zion and NAW to the list of facilitators too. My god. NAW is gifted. He really is more of a PG than SG but I agree combo guard is his position because he’s awesome off the ball.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea he has a great all around game and gives us a 2 way player capable of guarding 3 positions. He’s got very similar size to Kent Bazemore. My comparison for him is Brogdon/Bazemore for him. Getting anything close to those guys would be huge. I think he is going to be better. I don’t think he is more NBA ready then Zion but I don’t think he’s far from it. In a couple of years when they do redrafts on this draft I think we will have 3 of the top 6 picks.
Once Hayes puts on some size and strength he will be a top 5 Center in the NBA. That kids talent along with his shooting touch and soft hands like Griffin said is incredible. He is so good around the rim and he is still as raw as it gets. You just don’t see that type of touch from bigs and it is very rare to get one. IMO we got one of the best finishing bigs around the rim I have seen since AD.
Oh yea I know! I was mostly talking about the starting lineup and what will be the main facilitators in it. Zion absolutely can as well especially in the NBA which is built for a player like him. Those 3 all have the ability to create like a PG and I would put NAW in that category as well. Adding 3 more ball handlers and creators in 1 off season with Ball/NAW/Ingram is just insane. So much pressure is now taken off Jrue. I think early on we will keep it simple for Zion asking him to just attack while we have others put him in positions to get easy buckets. Either way whatever we decide to do we can now do it thanks to the versatility we have added to this team. We have upgraded every single position on this team with what will be better players except for losing AD. Not much of a drop off with Zion!
I know its just SL. I'm trying to repeat it in my head. But I want this youngster as the backup point guard as a rookie. Dont care if he struggles early. He will figure it out. His command of the game reminds me of a young Chris Paul. You cant teach confidence like that.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: one of the absolute most important things to consider for a player, especially a young player, that gets overlooked far too often is feel.
People look at box score stats, or they see a highlight dunk or a deep three, and for a lot of casual fans (no insult to casual fans, obviously it's perfectly legit to just enjoy something as a hobby) but it's easy to miss feel. It doesn't make a top 10 highlight reel, it doesn't look as gaudy as 30 points in the box score, but it's just vital. All top prospects have it, all superstars have it. NAW has it.
Obviously just feel isn't enough. If you're 4'7'' with a 2'' vertical and no jumper, no amount of 'feel' is going to save you. There needs to be a baseline physical ability. But if you're 6'6'' with a 6'10'' wingspan, can pass with both hands and shoot from deep, then feel is what sets you apart from physically gifted Summer League stars and lets you be a real NBA player.
yeah same him Redick and hart as the bench whoo it could be exciting as the starters
Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk
I fully agree with your assessment. he's so similar to jrue with a better shot.
I know it’s just Summer League but man Nickeil Alexander-Walker is already making major splashes as a scorer and facilitator. There’s no way you can keep NAW off the court if he continues this kind of play. You have to find a way to give him as many minutes possible. He’s already what we want out of Lonzo; someone that can put others in position to get buckets and he already has a great shot, which Lonzo still needs to improve on. Nickeil looks like he can translate his SL play into At Least 12-16 ppg and 5-8 apg if he gets minutes. The more NAW develops, Lonzo becomes more in his way imo.
We loaded with backcourt depth, and all of them can shoot and score except Lonzo. Lonzo can be an assist machine, but he doesn’t offer much of anything in shooting. That’s a huge liability when his starter minutes prevents better scorers from seeing the floor
You can only have so many scorers on the floor at once before they start to get in each other's way, especially if they are scorers who need the ball in their hands to create offense. Obviously guys like Redick who just run around and shoot don't present that issue, but guys like Ingram certainly do.
It's easy to say ''Oh well, Lonzo can be an assist machine, but doesn't offer shooting'', but it's equally easy to turn it around and say (for example) that ''sure, Frank Jackson can really score but he offers literally nothing else''. Which is also true. The question then becomes how do you roll out a lineup with maximum versatility so that your offense remains dynamic? If you roll out nothing but scorers, scorers, scorers, who need the ball in their hands and who are mediocre-to-poor at creating for others and defending, then you have an issue.
NAW's breakout to me makes, more than anyone else, Frank redundant. Which would you rather have, a two man duo in NAW/Lonzo which has top tier length, serious height, extreme defensive versatility, elite playmaking, and a middling level of shooting, or a two man duo with NAW/Frank which is kinda mediocre length, average height, defensively okay, with only one playmaker with very good scoring?
For me, the answer seems fairly obvious. The goal of a team should be to have as many players as possible who can do as many things as possible. That means that one dimensional guys with only one ability get bumped before guys with a multifaceted game do. Lonzo has, for all of his awful scoring, multiple top tier NBA skills. Frank has only one skill, and he's not elite (on an NBA level) at it. Guess which name gets crossed off first?
I mean, think about it. You need 2 starting guards, and two backup guards, realistically. With Lonzo/Jrue/NAW/Hart, you have a group of four that contains three very good passers, four very good defenders (2 of which are elite), 2 of which can shoot, 3 of which can score.
If you have your 4 man set be NAW/Jrue/Hart/Frank, then your group only contains 2 very good passers, 3 very good defenders (only one of which is elite), in exchange for one extra shooter. Do you take a huge step down in defense, playmaking, and size in exchange for a decent but not monumental leap in scoring? I don't.
Edit: I'm describing the bare minimum core. Obviously for this year going forward, Redick and Moore are also there and will get minutes, and we'll see Jrue and Hart probably play SF minutes sometimes.
Last edited by Pelicanidae; 07-11-2019 at 07:48 PM.
TBH, Griff should be playing Frank more in Summer League to bump his value right up
TBH ? Does that mean IYO ? Because TBH, I'm gonna trust Griff over IYO.
That’s true Frank is a below average passer and skillset is redundant. I’m looking moreso at NAW’s upside, the fact that Jrue Holiday is here long term playing both guard spots, and the all-around players we have in Moore and Hart. The more NAW improves and remains consistent as both a passer and scorer, he can’t stay off the court
In a crowded backcourt how does the Pels ensure the best production gets minutes? JJ Redick is not far away from retirement so NAW will presume Redick’s top bench guard role at the very least when his short contract is up. Josh Hart provides depth at SG and still young. E’Twaun Moore is one of the most versatile players in the league and isn’t a bad option for backup PG. Jrue Holiday can start at either SG or PG, which makes it easier for NAW to slide in at either guard position as well. Jrue may not be Rondo level in assists but he can still make plays at PG and fill the stat sheet up in assists. That’s why I feel like Lonzo hinders us at putting the best backcourt out there as possible. Jrue and NAW at any of the 1 & 2, with Hart and Moore backing them up, is better than Jrue and Lonzo as long as NAW continues to improve. NAW knows how to time passes, getting into passing lanes, and a solid on-ball defender, based on scouting reports I’ve read, so he has room to develop into a great defender
Maybe I’m overstating NAW’s upside but I just hope we don’t sit NAW a lot just because the trade and Lonzo dad compels the Pels to give Lonzo major minutes. Hopefully Lonzo and NAW split even in pt because NAW is already a playmaker and major contributor to the team
Well you kinda said it yourself. Redick's not far away from retirement: two years from now he may well decide to hang it up for good as his contract ends, and if he doesn't he'll definitely be taking a much reduced role in whatever team he goes to.
You mention Moore, but I don't see him as a factor to be honest. He's going to be here this year, sure, but his contract is expiring and because of the weakness of next free agent class, he may well be offered a silly contract next summer anyway, in which case he'll definitely be let go. There's no guarantee he'll even make it out of this season to be honest, as his contract is a valuable trade piece. In any case, I don't factor him into long term plans because I don't think he'll be on the team in, say, 2 years time.
I agree that in the short term, it's probably the case that Moore takes more of NAW's minutes than we would like. However, by the end of the season (especially if Moore gets moved) I think we'll see a lot more of NAW than we will in the first few months, and the guard rotation will generally revolve around the Lonzo/Jrue/Hart/NAW group that I talked about earlier. I don't see NAW and Lonzo as competing for minutes, really at all: they have different skill sets and slot into different lineups. The competition for NAW is Moore and Frank, and NAW is already paving a good path towards replacing both of them sooner rather than later due to his superior size, passing, and defensive versatility.
I don't really see NAW as starting, at least not in his first year, regardless of how good he is. We know that Gentry is a big fan of Lonzo, at least on paper, and we also know that Gentry tends towards trusting guys he knows more than new faces. Generally, anyway. There's no doubt in my mind that we're starting Lonzo and Jrue. The question is, who replaces Jrue when he goes to the bench? To start the season, it will probably be Moore, which I see as a big step down, but assuming Moore either falls out of that automatic backup spot as the season goes on (or is traded) you essentially have to ask whether it's Frank or NAW who takes the backup-Jrue slot. The superior answer to me is clearly NAW, because his skillset is similar in so many ways and he provides much more versatility on both ends than Frank does. Lonzo doesn't really factor into the situation for me any more than, say, Ingram factors into how much we end up playing Hayes: completely different positions, competing for different roles in different minutes.
I don’t see Frank doing too much here in NOLA. NAW has blown past him by leaps & bounds. We just don’t have room for him on this roster. I think he will make the team as our like 7th guard lol. But I think Hart & Moore will likely see a lot of time as our 3rd guard or backup small forward. I don’t see why we signed Darius Miller 7+ million a year, but we did need another legit small forward. I think it was a little of an overpay though. I see Lonzo, Jrue, & NAW ahead of him from a point guard standpoint. The only way he will likely play point guard is if we have another horrible, injury riddled season again. I Unless we blowing a team out or on the other end of that, but I would rather NAW get those minutes anyway.
I think if Frank ever makes it to a possible 6th man type player it will be with another team. We have just got too talented over night and we have a ton more picks as well.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote