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Thread: Possible Free Agent Targets

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    We are absolutely in win now mode.

    We are not in sacrifice the future to win now mode.

    Those are two different modes, IMO, that we need to clearly distinguish between!
    Signing Vuc would be sacrificing the future.

    It is in our best interests to preserve our long term cap space, because we will very probably not be a great team next year due to the number of young and developing prospects we will have on the roster. It's much more sensible, in my view, to wait until the 2021 free agency in two years when a bunch of huge names come up and we can have cap space to throw at names which we know will fit, because by then we will know who is sticking around. We'll know, at that point, whether Ingram has worked out in New Orleans, and whether Ball has patched up his game, etc. We will know which positions are of need, which is an important thing to know when you're signing big money, long term deals.

    The only way to ensure that we have that cap space in 2021 is to avoid signing big, long term deals now, especially to players whose market is a little inflated by the amount of cap space floating around. Vucevic will be demanding a 3 or 4 year max. We should definitely NOT be offering that, and if we do, we sacrifice that future flexibility and cap space when it's more useful and more informed.
    Basketball.

  2. #102
    Exhibit C Nola3's Avatar
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    I think we need to target respected veterans who we know are great locker room presences who can effect a basketball game without having the ball in their hands. If we have to slightly overpay to get them to come here, then so be it. We need players who can come in and show the kids how to act, both on and off the court. Both Lopez twins immediately come to mind as does Brogdon, even though I think the fit may be a little awkward since our backcourt is so crowded.

  3. #103
    Maybe we should stand pat and save our money until next year. Why?

    The ultimate kill shot to the Lakers would be if AD would leave in free agency at the end of next year for his old team. That would be a script that wouldn't even sell in Hollywood.

    j/k

  4. #104
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Signing Vuc would be sacrificing the future.

    It is in our best interests to preserve our long term cap space, because we will very probably not be a great team next year due to the number of young and developing prospects we will have on the roster. It's much more sensible, in my view, to wait until the 2021 free agency in two years when a bunch of huge names come up and we can have cap space to throw at names which we know will fit, because by then we will know who is sticking around. We'll know, at that point, whether Ingram has worked out in New Orleans, and whether Ball has patched up his game, etc. We will know which positions are of need, which is an important thing to know when you're signing big money, long term deals.

    The only way to ensure that we have that cap space in 2021 is to avoid signing big, long term deals now, especially to players whose market is a little inflated by the amount of cap space floating around. Vucevic will be demanding a 3 or 4 year max. We should definitely NOT be offering that, and if we do, we sacrifice that future flexibility and cap space when it's more useful and more informed.
    This seems circular to me.

    You don't want to sign anyone to a long term deal because we'll only have young players on the team and may not be great. But if we signed the right player to a 3 or 4 year deal, we wouldn't only have young players on the team and we would be more competitive next year.

    Vuc may not be that player. Maybe it's trading for Love. Maybe it's Looney. Maybe it's a trade for Capella. Maybe it's Brogdon.

    I think our path to superstars in the future is similar to what it was in the past: nailing the draft or through trade.

    Before I'd sign anyone to a long term deal, the only thing I'd worry about is how confident I am they will remain a positive asset through the contract.

  5. #105
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    We are absolutely in win now mode.

    We are not in sacrifice the future to win now mode.

    Those are two different modes, IMO, that we need to clearly distinguish between!
    Maybe we have different definitions of "win now." We are building for a sustainable future, not going all in to win this season.

  6. #106
    Band of Skulls & Neon Trees ramsters60's Avatar
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    I have no idea exactly what went down in Chicago with Mirotic, but a guy I find somewhat intriguing is Bobby Portis...
    "we might make dollars, but we don't necessarily make sense"

    "always be sincere....whether you mean it or not"

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    This seems circular to me.

    You don't want to sign anyone to a long term deal because we'll only have young players on the team and may not be great. But if we signed the right player to a 3 or 4 year deal, we wouldn't only have young players on the team and we would be more competitive next year.

    Vuc may not be that player. Maybe it's trading for Love. Maybe it's Looney. Maybe it's a trade for Capella. Maybe it's Brogdon.

    I think our path to superstars in the future is similar to what it was in the past: nailing the draft or through trade.

    Before I'd sign anyone to a long term deal, the only thing I'd worry about is how confident I am they will remain a positive asset through the contract.
    It is circular, but I think it's important anyway. If you sign a bunch of expensive, high usage, long term contracts then you necessitate giving them minutes and run. Playing them will come at the detriment of playing and developing your young talent. Say we go out and sign, for example, Tobias Harris. There is no way that he comes here without him eating into Ingram and Zion's minutes, and thus limiting their chances to develop at a real pace. Yes, we would be more competitive in terms of the win/loss column, but when I said that we probably wouldn't be a great team due to those developing young guys, I didn't mean that as a negative. I want them developing, playing lots of minutes together, and I truly don't care if we win 25 games next year (although I do think we're a better team than that).

    My main issue is, like I said, contract length. As much as I like the idea of signing guys on relatively budget deals and then renting out cap space for assets, I can see an argument for offering a bomb contract to someone like Horford on a short contract length. I just don't think that he would take it. I feel like signing any big name will require more years than I want to give.

  8. #108
    The Franchise PolishFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsters60 View Post
    I have no idea exactly what went down in Chicago with Mirotic, but a guy I find somewhat intriguing is Bobby Portis...
    no way

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    It is circular, but I think it's important anyway. If you sign a bunch of expensive, high usage, long term contracts then you necessitate giving them minutes and run. Playing them will come at the detriment of playing and developing your young talent. Say we go out and sign, for example, Tobias Harris. There is no way that he comes here without him eating into Ingram and Zion's minutes, and thus limiting their chances to develop at a real pace. Yes, we would be more competitive in terms of the win/loss column, but when I said that we probably wouldn't be a great team due to those developing young guys, I didn't mean that as a negative. I want them developing, playing lots of minutes together, and I truly don't care if we win 25 games next year (although I do think we're a better team than that).

    My main issue is, like I said, contract length. As much as I like the idea of signing guys on relatively budget deals and then renting out cap space for assets, I can see an argument for offering a bomb contract to someone like Horford on a short contract length. I just don't think that he would take it. I feel like signing any big name will require more years than I want to give.
    I'm not opposed to short contracts. I'm not opposed to long contracts. I think it just depends on the guy. I completely agree with not wanting a guy like Tobias, because of his usage and already having a guy with NBA experience that we need to give minutes to further develop in Ingram. I wouldn't necessarily want Brogdon, because I think he eats into Hart and Nickeil's minutes. But in the front court, I think we have room to bring in a guy that plays 25+ minutes a game, because he's not going to stand in the way of anyone's development. If it's the right guy.

    Hayes is going to get a ton of development from just being in the NBA and practicing with guys. He's going to get less than 10 mpg, IMO, if that. You can ruin a guy by throwing him out there to "develop" when he's not ready. I've seen that happen over and over again with young dudes. I really like the Hayes pick, but I hope the Pels are smart enough not to rush it.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    Maybe we have different definitions of "win now." We are building for a sustainable future, not going all in to win this season.
    Going all in would be trading away assets like future picks and young players. Having space for a max and signing a max guy isn't going all in.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    I'm not opposed to short contracts. I'm not opposed to long contracts. I think it just depends on the guy. I completely agree with not wanting a guy like Tobias, because of his usage and already having a guy with NBA experience that we need to give minutes to further develop in Ingram. I wouldn't necessarily want Brogdon, because I think he eats into Hart and Nickeil's minutes. But in the front court, I think we have room to bring in a guy that plays 25+ minutes a game, because he's not going to stand in the way of anyone's development. If it's the right guy.

    Hayes is going to get a ton of development from just being in the NBA and practicing with guys. He's going to get less than 10 mpg, IMO, if that. You can ruin a guy by throwing him out there to "develop" when he's not ready. I've seen that happen over and over again with young dudes. I really like the Hayes pick, but I hope the Pels are smart enough not to rush it.
    Like I said, I think I'd be happy to throw Al Horford probably-too-much-money if he would be willing to accept fewer years, so I guess we're on kind of the same page with the idea of it depending on whether it's the right guy.

    I still think that Hayes is perfectly capable of giving us 15 minutes off the bench, in that Diallo role. You mentioned elsewhere that Diallo had been playing basketball for far longer and was three seasons along by the time he was getting that, and I understand what you're saying, but I raise the counterpoint: Hayes is better at basketball than Diallo was in his first two years. He already has more touch around the rim, he already has a hook shot, he already slips screens very well (though he definitely needs practice on setting actual, hard screens. More muscle too), and he's already a rim protector.

    Yeah, he can get ruined by throwing him out there, but that's why I'm not advocating throwing him out there. I'm saying give him spot minutes against backup bigs, with a door open to extending his minutes as the season goes on depending on his progress.

    I'd also note that I feel Al Horford would be a great signing to go along with Hayes. He's super smart and plays clever defense, and can switch out onto guards too. Would love to have Horford pass on some of his defensive know-how to Hayes.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Like I said, I think I'd be happy to throw Al Horford probably-too-much-money if he would be willing to accept fewer years, so I guess we're on kind of the same page with the idea of it depending on whether it's the right guy.

    I still think that Hayes is perfectly capable of giving us 15 minutes off the bench, in that Diallo role. You mentioned elsewhere that Diallo had been playing basketball for far longer and was three seasons along by the time he was getting that, and I understand what you're saying, but I raise the counterpoint: Hayes is better at basketball than Diallo was in his first two years. He already has more touch around the rim, he already has a hook shot, he already slips screens very well (though he definitely needs practice on setting actual, hard screens. More muscle too), and he's already a rim protector.

    Yeah, he can get ruined by throwing him out there, but that's why I'm not advocating throwing him out there. I'm saying give him spot minutes against backup bigs, with a door open to extending his minutes as the season goes on depending on his progress.

    I'd also note that I feel Al Horford would be a great signing to go along with Hayes. He's super smart and plays clever defense, and can switch out onto guards too. Would love to have Horford pass on some of his defensive know-how to Hayes.
    So if you could actually get Horford - a player that helps you win now, mentors Zion, and is a high character guy - but you had to give him 4 years, you're pass on that deal?

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    So if you could actually get Horford - a player that helps you win now, mentors Zion, and is a high character guy - but you had to give him 4 years, you're pass on that deal?
    For a ton of money? Yeah. I'm not paying 37 year old Al Horford $25+ million to average 12/4/4, especially when that could rob me of the ability to sign a legitimate high caliber free agent in 2021.

  14. #114
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! kinglio21093's Avatar
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    We don't need to get crazy here. Get us a good vet that can provide exceptional production and helps lead the room with Jrue. I like our team, not in the "this team can win now" sense but in the "this team will do wonders in the long term" sense.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    For a ton of money? Yeah. I'm not paying 37 year old Al Horford $25+ million to average 12/4/4, especially when that could rob me of the ability to sign a legitimate high caliber free agent in 2021.
    though I may not always agree, I have always respected your analysis. Who do you think that high caliber free agent in 2021 would be?

  16. #116
    Charter Member PELICANSFAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Going all in would be trading away assets like future picks and young players. Having space for a max and signing a max guy isn't going all in.
    It is if it takes away your future cap flexibility.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by WhyHornetsWhy View Post
    though I may not always agree, I have always respected your analysis. Who do you think that high caliber free agent in 2021 would be?
    The top, top tier free agents due in 2021 are the following:

    Paul George
    Rudy Gobert
    Bradley Beal
    Giannis Antetokounmpo
    Damian Lillard
    Jayson Tatum
    Donovan Mitchell
    Lauri Markkanen
    CJ McCollum
    Steven Adams
    Victor Oladipo
    Trae Young

    All of those guys are either unrestricted free agents, or restricted free agents coming off rookie scale deals. Who we actually want to go for depends on what our team looks like, and that's kind of hard to predict because there may be trades between now and then, and some players like Ingram may or may not still be on the roster. But there will be a TON of free agents around, and probably not that much cap space since teams like LA, Brooklyn, LAC, and Philadelphia are all looking to blow their cap space on long term deals this year.

    Now, some of those guys are likely to stay where they are (Giannis and Dame come to mind, for example) but if, for example, we can make a legitimate run at Bradley Beal, assuming he doesn't sign that extension, or Lauri Markkanen if the Bulls mess up like they almost always do and let him walk, those are names I'd be interested in, and we'd have the cap to really pick who to throw our offers at.

    It's also important to remember that while right now it looks like we'd have no chance to get any of these bigger names, in 2021 I think we'll be a pretty decent team and we'll have a Zion Williamson who will probably already be a superstar talent and be a playoff team. That's attractive to some of these guys who will be turning 28, 29, 30 and looking to get their last big contract in on a contender.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by PELICANSFAN View Post
    It is if it takes away your future cap flexibility.
    Future cap flexibility is hard to predict. Is it safe to assume the cap will be at least $120m in two years? What about 2022, 2023?

    Is Jrue on the team? Is Ingram? What is Lonzo's next contract?

    What would make the team attractive to top tier free agents, if not experiencing playoff success?

    Cap room can be created, if we think we're in play for a top free agent.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    Cap room can be created, if we think we're in play for a top free agent.
    Someone should let the Lakers know.

  20. #120
    A few things have my attention as we head into the free agent season:

    -I hope we are clear of the Kevin Love idea...but I'm not sure we are. To me he's a declining player who has 4 years left on his deal at $30 million+ per year. Griff supposedly loves him on and off the court, but it's just the wrong fit. If it was two years, that's another thing. But no way we should pick up that contract for this team.

    -I like Elfrid to back up Ball. Similar kind of players who both can run Gentry's system providing some continuity and insurance if Ball's injury problems persist.

    -Horford's an interesting possibility. He's a perfect fit in that he both plays defense and can shoot the three. Plus he brings experience, a good locker room presence and a good coaching background to the team. Still, I don't open the vault for him and I assume some team will over pay.

    -Is a deal with the Pacer's really dead? They drafted Goga when they were already having trouble finding enough minutes for Turner and Sabonis. Might one of those two be on the block?

    -Some down the list FAs are interesting. A guy like Frank Kaminisky has show flashes for the Hornets but never really gotten consistent playing time since being a top 10 pick in 2015. At point guard Tomas Satoransky from the Wizards has been a big point guard many around here have been coveting for a while. These guys don't fulfill Griffin's aim to get an All Star type player, but may be good fall back options if we can't or choose not to pay a top vet...

  21. #121
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Someone should let the Lakers know.
    Cap room can be created by smart teams

  22. #122
    Can someone post a legit FA tracker with UfA and RFA filtered separately... Since you guys really just want argue about trial stuffs. Let's look at the free agent. Screw all this pissing contest of basketball knowledge. Give me these prospects

  23. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Taker597 View Post
    Can someone post a legit FA tracker with UfA and RFA filtered separately... Since you guys really just want argue about trial stuffs. Let's look at the free agent. Screw all this pissing contest of basketball knowledge. Give me these prospects
    If you are looking for this year's free agent list (or past/future lists), Spotrac usually has an up to date list. You can also sort by UFA, RFA, by team, by position and they designate whether a player has an option or has a team option. There is a lot of good info.

    https://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
    Last edited by Mount Zion; 06-22-2019 at 06:00 PM.

  24. #124
    A quick look at the available unrestricted free agents tells me that the smartest move might be to try to re-sign Randle and Payton and maybe bring Bogdanovic in.

  25. #125

    Free Agents

    Every year a thread is posted with a list of undrafted free agents signed. This year it is spread out in the free agent section. I am aware of four players at present moment (3 SGs and 1 PF). The Arizona State power forward (I believe his name is Cheatham) was supposed to be drafted and most think he can make roster given his defense and intangibles.
    Last edited by Lee2000; 06-22-2019 at 06:33 PM. Reason: Errors

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