Ok. I mean, I don’t feel like I lost. But ok.Originally Posted by donato
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Ok. I mean, I don’t feel like I lost. But ok.
Last edited by NMThreeMVP; 06-11-2019 at 11:15 PM.
Was that before or after the blood clot? I don't hate him. I see the upside possibility. But if he has a bad year it's going to be a disaster to pay him or just cut our losses.
Firstly, that was prior to the blood clot.
Secondly, he clearly doesn't love him THAT much, or the deal would be done and he wouldn't be asking for LA to rope a third team in to add value to the move.
What I'd really love is for someone to find an instance of Griffin ever denigrating other players on a podcast or a TV show. Has he ever been asked about a player in an interview and NOT responded with positivity and praise?
Basketball.
Ok. I don't see how you're making much sense, but that's just me. I think it was the right decision then, and in hindsight also the right decision looking back regardless of the lottery outcome, and now especially because of it. Oh well.
If the trade is weak, then you will have at least some argument. Maybe.
I still feel like there are options out there that have been relatively undercovered.
Woj was saying earlier on TV that he doubts Atlanta keeps all of their first rounders this year: they have three now, after the Brooklyn trade. Do Atlanta see Trae making that leap next year, and possibly accept AD in exchange for a deal based John Collins, #10, #17 from Brooklyn, and their 2020 FRP? They'd be keeping their #8, so they could add someone like DeAndre Hunter to add more shooting and defense, and then collect up vets to fill out the roster.
Almost definitely not, but that would be interesting.
Like people mentioned, Phoenix could always come out and offer Ayton, TJ Warren, #6, and their 2020 FRP if they were certain that AD + Booker would be a playoff combo. Doubtful, but they could.
Kinda sucks that we got corralled into LA/Boston/NY so early, cause if there had been a longer period of complete uncertainty, we could have had some fun conversations about teams that we now know are pretty unlikely to make an appearance.
We’re debating results now. We got Zion and AD didn’t get hurt. We cashed both of those results and I wouldn’t have bet on either. Too much risk. We also have Griff now and the awesome front office he’s building, so it just genuinely should feel to most like we made the right decision because things have all worked out this far. Doesn’t mean the decision was right. There was literally a ~94% chance it wouldn’t have worked out with us getting Zion. And most people wanted to wait expressly so that Boston could up the ante, and it was always clear to me that Kyrie was going to flake and Ainge wasn’t going to come through.
I think we’ll still get a good deal. Honestly no complaints at all from me, because it worked. It’s like that stupid step back Jrue shot too much this year. You go “No! No! No (then he makes it) ...yes!!”
There’s no way you’ve actually listened to the quote. I’m convinced.
Feel free to stick your fingers in your ears then.
Must be pretty easy, I guess. Hear someone disagree with you? Claim they're just lying.
On an unrelated note, I would like to highlight how absurd it is for you to claim that someone else can only think Y because they haven't listened to the quote, when you yourself admitted that you hadn't listened to the quote until tonight despite referencing it in your arguments frequently for months.
I get that. But it DID work out. At some point results matter. And you're arguing a stance that is still pending the "wait until post trade deadline result" which is even more illogical. How can you possibly justify your position when not knowing what trade actually takes place???? MANY here were telling you we would be better at this point in time to make a trade. If we are right, did we just get lucky too? At what point are you the one that was wrong?
Ive tried talking about all these random other deals and people just crapped on them because they weren’t better than a mythical Celtics deal that everyone fell in love with.
Then why don't we talk about them? I've responded to damn near every proposal in this thread, and 90% of them are just Yet Another Version of The Lakers Trade.
Yeah, starts to make me think that Ingram could be had. I'd much rather Tatum, but I've been coming to terms that Ingram could be a legitimate possibility.
We don't even really KNOW everything the Lakers offered pre trade deadline. We know that Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, and Zubac were discussed but I highly doubt it was all at the same time like we tend to throw around. So it really wouldn't be fair to compare whatever happens to that dream deal.
I also feel like (no research done, just off of memory] most of the proposed deals we all crapped on was more because we didn't think the other teams would go for it (they involved a third team getting fleeced) rather than we thought the Celtics deal was better. In all fairness, though, NBA deals rarely seem fair. It always seems like someone came out a clear winner. So I guess it could happen in those crazy ways.
Last edited by msusousaphone; 06-12-2019 at 12:56 AM.
The Lakers deal is 3x better now as long as 4th pick is in deal. That pick is only reason I’d consider Lakers at this point
I don't know what is so hard about this for people. The Lakers deal (as reported) isn't as good as any of the other potential deals. No matter how much Griffin liked the player Ingram was prior to the blood clots, the potential for a recurrence should be enough of a concern that he shouldn't be the best player piece in an AD trade. If Ingram gets another clot, it's game over. I hope he lives a full life, clot-free and is able to continue a good NBA career, but the risk is too great to consider him in the trade. Only Lakers mouthpiece Shams has contended it won't be a concern going forward and there is a real possibility that once you get one DVT, there will be another.
Even if the Lakers are able to cobble together another deal using pieces from a third team, it is unlikely that the deal would have more attractive pieces than those another team can offer. The #4 pick isn't as good as the third, the other first rounders aren't likely to be as good as the ones the Knicks or Clippers could offer and even the Celtics could offer the Memphis pick to go with better players.
I truly don't understand why all of this love exists for a potential Lakers deal. The fourth pick is good, but I would want none of their players. If they can package Ingram, Ball, Kuzma, Hart or anyone else for other players/picks, then fine. We can examine what that looks like then. But until they do, the Lakers should just be on the fringes and not really a consideration.
This is so asinine. There is 100% a causation that all the moves we made is exactly what lead to us getting Zion. If not trading AD as part of some two or three team dead had zero impact on the draft lottery, exactly what did impact it? Multiple lottery teams records would be different. If you are going to sit here and argue "because we don't know we can't believe it" no that's false and I do not accept your premise as having any value.
Your premises are incorrect anyway because we have no idea if we'd even be in that situation with the Nets after making a trade. That's the entire point. If we have a much different team then games we won or lost would be different.
What if we trade AD to the Lakers and instead of resting LBJ to end the season they push and make it as an 8th seed? Now instead of the 4th pick overall we would be getting a non lottery pick.
You simply cannot sit here and try and play dumb to defend your stance of wanting to trade before the deadline. Everyone acknowledged that there were risks involved with it, that's not in question. But the argument was the rewards outweighed the risk and knowing now that we won the lottery and that the Lakers ended up with the 4th pick hindsight should be clear that it was without a doubt the right move.
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I was fully on board with not taking the deadline deal because we needed the whole league to be in on negotiations and having the knowledge of who gets what lottery selection.
More suitors. Known lotto picks. That was my reasoning. It wasn’t even a gamble or risk.
The fact that knowing we already got Zion is icing. But we couldn’t be better positioned. Waiting was the right move with and without hindsight. Why is this even a debate anymore?
We know you think they’re garbage and your entitled to your opinion but anyone with some degree of knowledge about the game does not share that assessment. David Griffin has stated that he likes Ingram , Alvin Gentry has stated he likes Lonzo Ball , Pelicanidae thinks they’re garbage that’s all I need to know . Go ahead and stay on your soap box when Ingrams in the all star game in a couple years I’ll come back and holla at you .
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Actually we have logically less legitimate suitors. Davis has come out a reduced his list to two teams. And now teams have lost about a half of season to try to convince him to stay with them.
The teams that had a chance at Zion that would actually considered trading him for Davis was the Knicks, Celtics and Lakers anyways. Teams like Grizzlies, Hawks, or Suns etc. would have just kept Williamson. So knowing the draft order didn't help us. Getting lucky and winning the lotto or having one of the 3 LAL/NYK/BOS was logically our only chance at getting Zion. Plus this doesn't factor in the idea that any of those teams just decided to keep Zion.
Waiting worked out best only because we won the lottery. I did not want to chance it on 6%.
Last edited by da ThRONe; 06-12-2019 at 08:31 AM.
Seriously. We don't know what happens in the room if we trade Davis. We may end up with the same wins we may win with the Knicks pick. The point is people love to argue with the ability of hindsight. Trading not only Davis but Holiday for picks in this draft before the deadline would have likely increased our Zion chances to over 30% as opposed to sitting at 6%. When you have a guy that's considered this transcendent you want to increase your chances as much as possible.
There's a difference between saying I would change something now that I know the outcome vs what gave us the best chance to have that outcome play out without the power of hindsight. Of course the min it was realized we won I wouldn't go back and change anything. However people are saying waiting was the best way to go about it based on that 6% chance and I disagree.
I for one am looking forward to this trade being done so we can move on to our new future. Lets gooooo!
I agree that Ingram clot situation should rule the Lakers out instantly. Can anybody imagine the (justifiable) outrage if in a year or two Ingram has to retire or at the very least miss several seasons due to another clot? People(me included) would be calling for Griffin's head.
You sit here and say LAL, NYK, and Celtics (along with ourselves) we're logically our only chances at getting Zion. Great, what teams were in the top 4 of the draft? LAL, NYK, and US.
You can't sit here and say there was only a 6% chance of getting Zion when one of our main reasons for not moving AD was to not only improve our draft odds but also improve the odds of those teams willing to trade with us. Reality is we ended up in a situation where 3 of the 4 teams with a chance to get Zion were either us or teams that we are in discussions with about AD.
You also can't say we have less suitors now. At worst we have the same number of suitors. AD had the same list as he did before the trade deadline. It's been LA or NY this entire time. Nothing has changed on that front and rushing to trade him at the deadline to... LA or NY would have done nothing but make their picks we get worse. We are now in a situation where both of those teams have top 4 picks in the draft along with us.
It's just absolutely crazy people are STILL defending their position that we should have traded AD at the deadline when we know the entirr outcome of what actually happened.
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