AD trade scenarios...

[Pelicanidae]

Preach!!!

The hyperbolic rhetoric is insane. I still prefer the Knicks and Celtics dream packages but dayum.

The Clippers deal is in no way near the other three deals.

I've been over why I don't want Lonzo on this team again and again. I've clarified it's not hyperbolic. When I say that he is one of the worst FT shooters of all time, that's not hyperbole, it's literal fact. When I say that he has zero offensive gravity which limits his ability to create for others, that's not hyperbole, it's literal fact. When I say he seems scared to drive, that's not hyperbole. When I say he CANNOT SHOOT, that's not hyperbole.

I fully accept that he is a talented defender, and a good passer. I accept that he's a very good rebounder at the PG position. I do not accept the assertion that he's going to average a triple double next season (damn, I don't even accept that doing so is necessarily a good thing), I don't accept that he's the starting point guard on a high quality, contending team. I do not accept that he's basically Magic Johnson just waiting to happen. He isn't.

It's fair to compare Lonzo to Rubio and Simmons, sure. It's fair to compare almost any player to any other player. I'm not saying you can't make that comparison. I'm saying that when you DO make that comparison, you're harming your own point because Lonzo is a significantly inferior player to Ben Simmons and he lacks some of the skills that made Rubio effective despite their shared weaknesses.

[Pels4Life]

OH, im sorry. I guess using common sense is not allowed around here.

You know they say common sense isnt that common

[Sleeper]

Celtics is a solid trade. I wouldn't mind tempting Robinson with those 2nds from the Bucks or get a stop gap solution at 5 like Lopez. Get Bro in the off-season.

Jrue
Bro
Tatum
Zion
Robinson/Lopez

And a real quality bench and rotation. Zion is gonna have a no pressure.

This is my current team on 2K with Okafor instead of lopez. Having a hard time beating the Mavericks of all teams in the western finals.


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[NMThreeMVP]

Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2019

Guess it's real now...

[NMThreeMVP]

I've been over why I don't want Lonzo on this team again and again. I've clarified it's not hyperbolic. When I say that he is one of the worst FT shooters of all time, that's not hyperbole, it's literal fact. When I say that he has zero offensive gravity which limits his ability to create for others, that's not hyperbole, it's literal fact. When I say he seems scared to drive, that's not hyperbole. When I say he CANNOT SHOOT, that's not hyperbole.

I fully accept that he is a talented defender, and a good passer. I accept that he's a very good rebounder at the PG position. I do not accept the assertion that he's going to average a triple double next season (damn, I don't even accept that doing so is necessarily a good thing), I don't accept that he's the starting point guard on a high quality, contending team. I do not accept that he's basically Magic Johnson just waiting to happen. He isn't.

It's fair to compare Lonzo to Rubio and Simmons, sure. It's fair to compare almost any player to any other player. I'm not saying you can't make that comparison. I'm saying that when you DO make that comparison, you're harming your own point because Lonzo is a significantly inferior player to Ben Simmons and he lacks some of the skills that made Rubio effective despite their shared weaknesses.

Which Rubio skills does Lonzo lack? He's bigger, a better rebounder, and a better defender.

[Pelicanidae]

Which Rubio skills does Lonzo lack? He's bigger, a better rebounder, and a better defender.

I literally told you earlier that Rubio is an 85% free throw shooter.

If you CANNOT SHOOT and you CANNOT DRIVE, which neither Lonzo nor Rubio are great at, you need to be able to DRAW FOULS and HIT THE FREE THROWS.

Rubio can do that, Lonzo can't. Therefore, while Rubio is still not a dynamic scorer, defenses have to at least make movements on him because he can finish an open layup and if they.foul him, he can make them. Lonzo REFUSES to drive because he's scared of being fouled, so defenses can sag off him when he's at the 3pt line because they know he will not DRIVE and punish them.

Can I make this any clearer?

[PELICANSFAN]

Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2019

Guess it's real now...

Adds validity to the fact that he could join the Nets. KD was serious about the Celtics also until he did an about face and signed with Golden State. Unless Kyrie tells Ainge he is not coming back (and per Ainge yesterday on SiriusXM, he has been given no indication whatsoever that that is the case), it is up to Boston to play the hand they currently have. Will Ainge be worried that Irving may leave and therefore pass on AD? Maybe/Maybe not.

[Pelicanidae]

Kyrie Irving is serious about the Nets -- and the Nets are serious about beating the Knicks -- and rest of league -- to the biggest free agents in the marketplace, per league sources.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2019

Guess it's real now...

Do the Nets want to Billy King themselves?

[Eman5805]

The thing about this all that we can't forget is not even the players themselves know where they're going yet.

Before all is said and done, you could hear the Heat or Hornets or even the damn Warriors enter the discussion. I doubt the Warriors do, but it wouldn't surprise me.

And then he signs with the Timberwolves because, screw logic.

[JunkHead]

Brooklyn is trading Allen Crabbe and No. 17 pick in 2019 NBA Draft and protected first in 2020 to Atlanta for Taurean Prince and 2021 second-round pick, league sources tell ESPN.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@wojespn) June 6, 2019

I guess I'll put this here.

[NMThreeMVP]

I literally told you earlier that Rubio is an 85% free throw shooter.

If you CANNOT SHOOT and you CANNOT DRIVE, which neither Lonzo nor Rubio are great at, you need to be able to DRAW FOULS and HIT THE FREE THROWS.

Rubio can do that, Lonzo can't. Therefore, while Rubio is still not a dynamic scorer, defenses have to at least make movements on him because he can finish an open layup and if they.foul him, he can make them. Lonzo REFUSES to drive because he's scared of being fouled, so defenses can sag off him when he's at the 3pt line because they know he will not DRIVE and punish them.

Can I make this any clearer?

Rubio, for his entire career, averages 2 more FTA per game than Lonzo.

What are you talking about?!?

[13 - 3]

Looks like Gerry V was back at it

So you want Anthony Davis to stay in New Orleans? Attendance ranks last 5 years..25th,25,24,23,24.Hopefully new management can boost this, but they have a long way to go.

— GERRY V SHOW (@gvtalk) May 30, 2019

[NMThreeMVP]

The thing about this all that we can't forget is not even the players themselves know where they're going yet.

Before all is said and done, you could hear the Heat or Hornets or even the damn Warriors enter the discussion. I doubt the Warriors do, but it wouldn't surprise me.

And then he signs with the Timberwolves because, screw logic.

People are saying this, but it’s not really true. We had reports that Wade/Bosh/LeBron wanted to play together before summer of 2010. We had reports that LeBron might go back to Cleveland before summer of 2014. We had reports about Durant to the Warriors in the Fall, months before it happened. Everyone knew LeBron was going to the Lakers.

The streets always know! Lol

[UNO Gracias]

People saying they want Ball are being extremely generous when looking past his inability to shoot (free throws or three pointers). The guy is not going to be a stud, he will be meh at best.

[Pelicanidae]

Rubio, for his entire career, averages 2 more FTA per game than Lonzo.

What are you talking about?!?

Oh my god how many times do I have to explain to you that it's not about the points it's about the effect a drive has upon the opposing defense?


Jesus Christ

[13 - 3]

People saying they want Ball are being extremely generous when looking past his inability to shoot (free throws or three pointers). The guy is not going to be a stud, he will be meh at best.

The chicks like Ball.

[NMThreeMVP]

Oh my god how many times do I have to explain to you that it's not about the points it's about the effect a drive has upon the opposing defense?


Jesus Christ

The one skill you called out as being better for Rubio is his ability to shoot free throws and get to the line. He takes two more free throws. Lonzo’s eFG% is also significantly better than Rubio’s first two years.

The math doesn’t work at all for saying Rubio’s ability to get 2 more FTA a game is more valuable than Lonzo hitting the same 3pt% and having nearly 4 more attempts per game.

Lonzo at 22 is a much better prospect than Rubio was at 22, and yet everyone loved and still loves Rubio. The only conclusion is that y’all are haters!

[PELICANSFAN]

Looks like Gerry V was back at it

So you want Anthony Davis to stay in New Orleans? Attendance ranks last 5 years..25th,25,24,23,24.Hopefully new management can boost this, but they have a long way to go.

— GERRY V SHOW (@gvtalk) May 30, 2019

Gerry V's ego still butt hurt because he was canned. His shtick didn't cut it here.

[HornetGuru]

If you're asking if Ben Simmons is better than Lonzo Ball, you're already lost.

Simmons cannot shoot, but he can drive. He averages basically 17 PPG on 56% from the floor because he can actually drive. He is a threat to score, and if you foul him, he shoots 60% from the line which is definitely not great but is MUCH better than 41%.

Simmons is a better rebounder than Lonzo, averaging 8.8 RPG as opposed to Lonzo's 5.3, so I'm not sure why you've decided Lonzo is better there.

Ben Simmons has offensive gravity because he is a threat to drive and score, whereas Lonzo just isn't a factor in offensive play. Yes, Simmons, needs to learn to shoot, but so does Lonzo because while you argue that it's "respectable" to shoot 5 threes a game, I would argue that it's only "respectable" if you CAN shoot. Lonzo can't, so when he shoots 5 threes a game it's not "respectable" at all, it's a sign of his fear of driving and indicative of a low scoring IQ.

If Andre Drummond started jacking up threes next season and shot 31% we shouldn't be applauding it as respectable. We'd say he's making dumb offensive plays and wasting possessions because he CANT shoot. Lonzo is in the exact same boat.

61% free throw shooting isn’t just a little better than 40, it’s about 33% or an entire third better, that’s insane

[Taker597]

ATL with the 8th, 10th, and 17th pick. Interesting.

[Pelicanidae]

The one skill you called out as being better for Rubio is his ability to shoot free throws and get to the line. He takes two more free throws. Lonzo’s eFG% is also significantly better than Rubio’s first two years.

The math doesn’t work at all for saying Rubio’s ability to get 2 more FTA a game is more valuable than Lonzo hitting the same 3pt% and having nearly 4 more attempts per game.

Lonzo at 22 is a much better prospect than Rubio was at 22, and yet everyone loved and still loves Rubio. The only conclusion is that y’all are haters!

No.

The skill I pointed out was Rubio's ability to shoot free throws, meaning that getting to the line is a potential threat that defenses have to react to.

Picture a play. Lonzo is on the perimeter, holding the ball. He doesn't have an easy pass to an open man, and the rest of the team is ballwatching (happens a lot). He can't shoot, so it's in the opposing team's interest to give him space to allow him to jack up a three. But because of that space, he could potentially put the ball on the floor and drive uncontested, at least at first. What does he do?

He's Lonzo Ball, so he shoots the ball and clanks it, because he knows that if he drives, his man will already be dropped back in position to defend it and because he can't shoot free throws, getting the contact and being sent to the line is a death sentence for the possession. So he takes the three.

Now imagine that exact same scenario, but instead of Lonzo Ball, it's Ricky Rubio. What does Rubio do, in that scenario? Well, he drives. Why? Because he knows that if he gets to the rim and is fouled, he'll be able to make the free throws without any issue. His opponent knows that too, so rather than allow him to get the full head of steam, the opponent will have the help defense come over to at least provide a stunt in that direction, which will momentarily free up the guy the help defender is the primary assignment for, which means Rubio now has the option to either attempt the shot, knowing he can hit the FTs if he gets them, or he can make the pass.

For Lonzo, no help is needed because even if the defender is forced to foul, he won't hit the free throws so nobody cares, and nobody leaves their man.

What makes Rubio better here is the fact that he can hit the free throws, because it gives him the option to drive with intention to score, which can open up other opportunities for teammates. He is able to create plays for others using his ability to hit free throws as the backup option, meaning he doesn't have to just sit on the 3pt line and clank like Lonzo does.

I have explained this so many times, and now you've got me to the point where I'm literally drawing up X's and O's for you. Please don't come back with that trash again.

[Mount Zion]

People saying they want Ball are being extremely generous when looking past his inability to shoot (free throws or three pointers). The guy is not going to be a stud, he will be meh at best.

If you look at the career stats of Ball, Rubio and Payton, one thing is obvious. None of them can hit the three very well. Rubio is the best free throw shooter, Payton has the best field goal percentage and Ball... gets a couple of rebounds per game more than the others. Ball has the lowest average of assists and is a less than 44% free throw shooter! Shaq averaged around 53% and he is considered one of the worst ever. Ultimately, Payton offers about as much as the other two for less cost in the long run and would be a better option for a rotation with another player. Ball is a lot of hype, some defense and a sideshow entourage. No thanks. If the Pelicans end up trading AD to the Lakers, I hope there is another deal for Ball involved that would bring the Pelicans someone that they can use long term.

[Saints#34]

It’s really shocking how bad Ball is at free throws. I mean, I know for a fact I can hit about 50% from the free throw line.

Granted I’m not doing it with thousands of people watching but still...shooting free throws is a skill that can be practiced like any other. If anything I think it’s an alarming indication of a lack of preparation and maturity to put the work in to get better. I just can’t believe that if he spent an offseason focusing on his FT he couldn’t hit 65% or so which is bad but at least not historically bad.


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[NMThreeMVP]

No.

The skill I pointed out was Rubio's ability to shoot free throws, meaning that getting to the line is a potential threat that defenses have to react to.

Picture a play. Lonzo is on the perimeter, holding the ball. He doesn't have an easy pass to an open man, and the rest of the team is ballwatching (happens a lot). He can't shoot, so it's in the opposing team's interest to give him space to allow him to jack up a three. But because of that space, he could potentially put the ball on the floor and drive uncontested, at least at first. What does he do?

He's Lonzo Ball, so he shoots the ball and clanks it, because he knows that if he drives, his man will already be dropped back in position to defend it and because he can't shoot free throws, getting the contact and being sent to the line is a death sentence for the possession. So he takes the three.

Now imagine that exact same scenario, but instead of Lonzo Ball, it's Ricky Rubio. What does Rubio do, in that scenario? Well, he drives. Why? Because he knows that if he gets to the rim and is fouled, he'll be able to make the free throws without any issue. His opponent knows that too, so rather than allow him to get the full head of steam, the opponent will have the help defense come over to at least provide a stunt in that direction, which will momentarily free up the guy the help defender is the primary assignment for, which means Rubio now has the option to either attempt the shot, knowing he can hit the FTs if he gets them, or he can make the pass.

For Lonzo, no help is needed because even if the defender is forced to foul, he won't hit the free throws so nobody cares, and nobody leaves their man.

What makes Rubio better here is the fact that he can hit the free throws, because it gives him the option to drive with intention to score, which can open up other opportunities for teammates. He is able to create plays for others using his ability to hit free throws as the backup option, meaning he doesn't have to just sit on the 3pt line and clank like Lonzo does.

I have explained this so many times, and now you've got me to the point where I'm literally drawing up X's and O's for you. Please don't come back with that trash again.

You described a hypothetical. The problem is, that there is no evidence to support that this actually happens. It's just your hypothetical scenario... and none of the actual numbers support that this actually happens. Did you seriously just go back and scout Rubio tape from 7 years ago?? I doubt it. Lonzo has a better eFG% than Rubio did his first two years. So even though Lonzo is literally a better shooter, you're telling me the defense reacted differently to Rubio based off 1 or 2 more hypothetical drives to the basket than Lonzo??? This is ridiculous. I'd rather you just say you love Spaniards and never got BBB shoes that you ordered. That would be more respectable.

[NMThreeMVP]

Brooklyn feels off the table for an AD trade now. And if Kyrie is leaving Boston it may keep Tatum off the table.

So, Knicks or Lakers?

— David Fisher (@Fish_TBW) June 6, 2019

It was Lakers vs Knicks in February. It's going to be Lakers vs Knicks in June.