AD trade scenarios...

[Mythrol]

I speak from my perspective, and my perspective only. I don't expect the team or the management or the front office to care about what I think. When I'm talking about what I think, it's my opinion and that's all, and if you don't want to discuss my the opinions of individuals then forums aren't the best places to be.

I find James Harden boring. His game is boring, at best, when it's not annoying. I didn't bother watching any of their first round playoff games because I dislike watching his style so much. If (not when, not sure why you're acting like the trade is already done) we did that trade and got to 60 wins, I'd be rooting for the team, obviously, but I'd be hard pressed to watch the games with anything like the regularity I do now. I've watched pretty much every game this team has played for the past three seasons or so, and about 70% of the games in the previous couple of seasons before that. I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to watch more than 40 games if the New Orleans Pelicans became the James Harden Free Throw Showcase.

Obviously that's nobody else's problem, but on a forum where we all come to share our opinions, ideas, judgements, and responses, that's mine. If you don't agree, good for you.

We are talking about a hypothetical. Of course in a HYPOTHETICAL conversation I'm going to *gasp* talk about it as if it happened. I don't believe there's even a 1% chance Houston trades Harden for AD straight up. I believe if you poll GM's around the league Harden on his deal has more value than AD on his.

But the question was raised on if I'd do the trade or not. I would. It's a shame you wouldn't be able to get over your hatred of Harden but you hate Harden and that's why you're against the trade, this post makes that clear.

Edit: Let me rephrase that to "Your much bigger reason is your hatred of Harden and not because of some on the court perceived issue."

I'm all for you not wanting to do the trade, I legitimately don't care either way, it's all everyone's opinion.

[Silver Nail]

We are talking about a hypothetical. Of course in a HYPOTHETICAL conversation I'm going to *gasp* talk about it as if it happened. I don't believe there's even a 1% chance Houston trades Harden for AD straight up. I believe if you poll GM's around the league Harden on his deal has more value than AD on his.

But the question was raised on if I'd do the trade or not. I would. It's a shame you wouldn't be able to get over your hatred of Harden but you hate Harden and that's why you're against the trade, this post makes that clear.

Edit: Let me rephrase that to "Your much bigger reason is your hatred of Harden and not because of some on the court perceived issue."

I'm all for you not wanting to do the trade, I legitimately don't care either way, it's all everyone's opinion.

I don't hate Harden, hate the refs and NBA top brass for allowing his flops, fake fouls. and walking etc. etc.

[Mythrol]

I don't hate Harden, hate the refs and NBA top brass for allowing his flops, fake fouls. and walking etc. etc.

I can agree with this. It's more about the NBA allowing it. I'm more or less ok with players taking advantage of the rules but the NBA should have stepped in long ago to fix flopping.

[Pelicanidae]

I don't hate Harden, hate the refs and NBA top brass for allowing his flops, fake fouls. and walking etc. etc.

I don't hate Harden at all. I don't know him. He might be a wonderful guy.

I do hate his playstyle, sure. I hate it on any team because at the end of the day, I'm a fan not a player or a member of a front office and therefore since I make no money off any of the games or the players, the only thing I care about is whether or not I'm enjoying the games. I care about championships and playoffs runs, because they're fun and it's fun to keep playing for higher and higher stakes and to feel the pressure go up. It's high risk, high reward: the payoff if you win is intense, and the disappointment if you lose is intense as well. Championships mean nothing to me if they're unwatchable. I'll feel happy for the guys on the forum who can watch it and enjoy it, sure, but I myself wouldn't actually feel any vicarious joy from a ring if that ring was achieved in such a way that I couldn't stand watching the game.

I watch basketball for fun. I make no money, I get no trophies, no rewards, no accolades, no fame, no notoriety from it. Given that reality, doesn't it seem beyond obvious that if something makes the game less fun for me, that I wouldn't like that? I'm not even from New Orleans, so I don't have any kind of home-town pseudo-nationalist pride over it either.

I want Zion to come to the Pelicans and I want him to develop as much as possible because I think that he's got the potential to be a franchise altering talent who can lead us to Spurs-like success over a long period of time. Winning like that is fun. It's fun to watch a talented young player develop, and it's fun to see them become the leader of a winner. It's not fun to watch them be relegated to put-back duty, and it's not fun to watch 2 minutes of free throws for every 3 minutes of gameplay.

[redrum]

Then I pitty your narrow minded view. I'd rather win a Superbowl 3-0 in the most boring game ever than to lose in the 1st round of the playoffs in a shootout 70-63.

ALL that matters is holding up a trophy at the end.

I could not agree with you more.
Give me James Harden and a chance, no other player the Pels could acquire in any of these scenarios is as good or probably ever be as good as Harden. No matter how you feel about his game.

Most people on this site if given the chance to watch the Beatles would rather watch four 21-25 year olds from Liverpool with the potential to be the Beatles.
Newsflash..they will not be as good as the Beatles!


(fine you don't like the Beatles, insert any band you think is great....you get the idea)

[Pelicanidae]

Most people on this site if given the chance to watch the Beatles would rather watch four 21-25 year olds from Liverpool with the potential to be the Beatles.
Newsflash..they will not be as good as the Beatles!

With all due respect, that's one of the worst analogies I have ever read in my entire life.

[redrum]

With all due respect, that's one of the worst analogies I have ever read in my entire life.

Arguing that getting RJ Barrett, Jason Tatum, etc would be better then adding James Harden is pretty ridiculous to me. Solid role players are not MVP's.

[Pelicanidae]

Arguing that getting RJ Barrett, Jason Tatum, etc would be better then adding James Harden is pretty ridiculous to me. Solid role players are not MVP's.

Depends what you mean by 'better'. If you mean winning, then sure, it would be ridiculous to argue that Barrett is more likely to help you win than Harden. It's a good thing, then, that nobody is arguing that.

[redrum]

Depends what you mean by 'better'. If you mean winning, then sure, it would be ridiculous to argue that Barrett is more likely to help you win than Harden. It's a good thing, then, that nobody is arguing that.

It really doesn't matter, the Pelicans aren't getting James Harden,, just saying it would be hard to turn down if offered.

[Pelicanidae]

It really doesn't matter, the Pelicans aren't getting James Harden,, just saying it would be hard to turn down if offered.

I agree with that, I can't see them moving him.

Did you guys realise Harden turns 30 in August? I had it in my head that he was 27 or something, I didn't realise that he's going to be 34 when his contract ends. $47m for 34 year old Harden. His game is going to age better than some people's but yeah... very few players are still at super-star level when they're 34, 35 years old.

[GuardianAngel25]

Arguing that getting RJ Barrett, Jason Tatum, etc would be better then adding James Harden is pretty ridiculous to me. Solid role players are not MVP's.

Yea I love RJ and Tatum.. Not wanting Harden is cause some people can get over their biases on certain players. Adding Harden to Jrue and Zion would be incredible. He has had no help in Houston and the best help they brought him was someone getting paid $40 million to handle the ball which is what he does. You put AD on the Rockets instead of CP3 and they win the championship. You out KD on the Rockets instead of CP3 and they win. They were a half away without their 2nd best player from taking down the Warriors with Durant. Harden is a flat out stud who has run into a juggernaut in the playoffs every year. Swapping Harden for AD and drafting Zion makes this team instant contenders that can win a few rings. Once Jrue/Harden age we still have Zion entering the prime of his career with a couple of rings on his fingers.

[redrum]

I know Harden will be heading into his 30's, but if there is ever a player who will continue to be great it is a player like him. His game is not built on speed, jumping ability or any other thing that diminishes with age.
Now, if the refs turn on him and not give him 20 fts a game, that would hurt his game.

[Pelicanidae]

I know Harden will be heading into his 30's, but if there is ever a player who will continue to be great it is a player like him. His game is not built on speed, jumping ability or any other thing that diminishes with age.
Now, if the refs turn on him and not give him 20 fts a game, that would hurt his game.

His game is not built on speed, jumping ability, IQ, shooting accuracy, power, athleticism, insane handles, etc...

But if he isn't gifted 10+ free, uncontested shots by the refs per game, he'll be doomed

It's depressing that that's so true.

[GuardianAngel25]

I know Harden will be heading into his 30's, but if there is ever a player who will continue to be great it is a player like him. His game is not built on speed, jumping ability or any other thing that diminishes with age.
Now, if the refs turn on him and not give him 20 fts a game, that would hurt his game.

I think you are dead on and Harden has the skill set to be dominant well into his mid 30s. Harden is twice the player Ginobli ever was and look how long he was effective for. I think Harden is a very similar player to Ginobli and will be effective for a long time as he was just on a different level. The refs won’t turn on Harden because he legitly draws a lot of fouls. Some are BS like with any star but Harden is great at selling which people seem to wanna not give him credit and pretend like the refs only help him.

Harden is the perfect SG to put next to Holiday and I feel Jrue is perfect for Harden. Having Zion with those 2 in a system Gentry designs around them and get ready for one of the most exciting teams. I think Harden would be a great player for Zion to learn some things from as well as he develops some of his on ball skills. I think this is a real trade people should consider as both GMs are looking to make a splash. I just think the Rockets would be fools to move Harden for AD.. I do think the Rockets with AD and CP3 wouldn’t be so bad as they move some players around to fit in better.
Going to be exciting to see what happens before the season!

[Mythrol]

His game is not built on speed, jumping ability, IQ, shooting accuracy, power, athleticism, insane handles, etc...

But if he isn't gifted 10+ free, uncontested shots by the refs per game, he'll be doomed

It's depressing that that's so true.

I mean I get the hate but I think we can all admit if Harden has anything it's IQ. His entire game is built around out smarting the defender to put him into a position where he can draw a foul. 100% some of the fouls are absolutely cheap but they're allowed.

Everyone said one the playoffs happened that the fouls would stop being called as much. Harden averaged 31.6-6.9-6.6 a game in the playoffs.

[Pelicanidae]

I mean I get the hate but I think we can all admit if Harden has anything it's IQ. His entire game is built around out smarting the defender to put him into a position where he can draw a foul. 100% some of the fouls are absolutely cheap but they're allowed.

Everyone said one the playoffs happened that the fouls would stop being called as much. Harden averaged 31.6-6.9-6.6 a game in the playoffs.

If you count that as IQ then sure. When I'm talking about IQ, I'm usually referring to reading the game, moving off-ball, getting into the right position, making the small movements, etc. Hip fakes, look-offs, that stuff.

If you count what he does as IQ, then yeah, take IQ off the list. Larger point still stands.

And yeah, Harden still averaged a lot of points in the playoffs. He still got 9 FTAs per, which is a lot, but it's less than his normal. And unsurprisingly, he scored less than his season average too. His game feeds off the foul calls.

[msusousaphone]

I could not agree with you more.
Give me James Harden and a chance, no other player the Pels could acquire in any of these scenarios is as good or probably ever be as good as Harden. No matter how you feel about his game.

Most people on this site if given the chance to watch the Beatles would rather watch four 21-25 year olds from Liverpool with the potential to be the Beatles.
Newsflash..they will not be as good as the Beatles!


(fine you don't like the Beatles, insert any band you think is great....you get the idea)

I know I'm late.....but realistically, no one on the board would answer your actual question at first, some would point out you forgot to capitalize the The and it is actually The Beatles, a few more would say The Beatles suck and try to name other bands even though you already addressed it in your post, a talentless wanna be reporter loser guy would pop in and insult you, and then ok, yeah, the rest would talk about the young potential band that could eventually blossom into The Beatles.

All that said, I really do love you peeps and wish we could BBQ or something.

[Mythrol]

If you count that as IQ then sure. When I'm talking about IQ, I'm usually referring to reading the game, moving off-ball, getting into the right position, making the small movements, etc. Hip fakes, look-offs, that stuff.

If you count what he does as IQ, then yeah, take IQ off the list. Larger point still stands.

And yeah, Harden still averaged a lot of points in the playoffs. He still got 9 FTAs per, which is a lot, but it's less than his normal. And unsurprisingly, he scored less than his season average too. His game feeds off the foul calls.

You don't think Harden does hip fakes, look offs, small movements to trick the defender, etc? I think you're being blinded by the fouls. Harden touches the ball what 100+ times a game? He averaged 10-11 FTs a game and takes 20+ shots a game.

There's a lot more to Harden's game than simply flops. This is ignoring how good at rebounding and assists he is too.

[Pelicanidae]

You don't think Harden does hip fakes, look offs, small movements to trick the defender, etc?

Nope. That is not what I said.

I didn't say Harden doesn't do them at all. His basketball IQ isn't 0. I'm just saying that his entire game isn't built around them, just like it's not built around speed, or handles, or athleticism, etc.

[Mythrol]

Nope. That is not what I said.

I didn't say Harden doesn't do them at all. His basketball IQ isn't 0. I'm just saying that his entire game isn't built around them, just like it's not built around speed, or handles, or athleticism, etc.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you're saying now.

[redrum]

I know I'm late.....but realistically, no one on the board would answer your actual question at first, some would point out you forgot to capitalize the The and it is actually The Beatles, a few more would say The Beatles suck and try to name other bands even though you already addressed it in your post, a talentless wanna be reporter loser guy would pop in and insult you, and then ok, yeah, the rest would talk about the young potential band that could eventually blossom into The Beatles.

All that said, I really do love you peeps and wish we could BBQ or something.

Thank you, I think your analysis of my post is spot on!

[JJackisangry]

There’s been talk that the Knicks are looking at potentially trading #3 for 8 and 10. There is no way in hell they’d pull the trigger unless we pulled the strings, so something tells me we may not be that high on Barrett.

[Pelicanidae]

There’s been talk that the Knicks are looking at potentially trading #3 for 8 and 10. There is no way in hell they’d pull the trigger unless we pulled the strings, so something tells me we may not be that high on Barrett.

They'd only do it if they knew they weren't getting AD. Which they will know within a few weeks. Unsurprised they'd want backup plans.

[NMThreeMVP]

Any potential trade between the Knicks and the Hawks involving their first-round picks is not currently under "serious consideration" by either side, a league source told SNY.

ESPN reported Friday that the Knicks have "explored the possibility" of trading back in the draft and that trading the No. 3 overall pick to the Hawks for their No. 8 and No. 10 picks is being considered by New York.

It's normal for teams to have conversations about potentially trading up and down in the draft, and the Knicks -- like any other club with a top pick -- appear to performing due diligence here.

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/what-...raft/307608586

[Pelicanidae]

https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/what-...raft/307608586

Unsurprised, but thanks for the update.

Makes sense. They'll probably have put feelers out just gauge willingness, but the talk will only turn into something serious if the Knicks think they're out of the AD discussion.