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Thread: Darius Garland vs Ja Morant

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Okay.
    Good. Glad you finally understand.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Good. Glad you finally understand.
    *thumbs up emoji*
    Basketball.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    *thumbs up emoji*

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    That'd be the one

  5. #55
    Snarky Optimistic Guy msusousaphone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    Do a thought experiment with me, for the sake of argument. Lets say a random player, called John Smith or whatever, plays 82 games in the regular season. In those games, he shoots 10 three point attempts a game, and for the first 65 games of the season, he hits 3 of them a game. A dead clean 30% shooter from behind the arc for 65 games. That's 195 total threes made.

    Then, in the final 17 games of the year, he shoots 8 out of 10 every game. A much smaller sample size, but he's really hot. That's 80% for 17 games, for 136 total threes made in that stretch.

    That puts his final total for the season at 301/820 taken threes, which is 36.7%. Basically 37%.

    Is John Smith a legitimately good shooter, or is he a poor-to-mediocre shooter who had an insane hot stretch that pumped up his numbers?

    Obviously this scenario has exaggerated numbers for the sake of the thought experiment.
    First off. Those are not Josh Smith's stats. What season are you pulling this from? His time in Atlanta was completely different and yes this is a joke.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by msusousaphone View Post
    First off. Those are not Josh Smith's stats. What season are you pulling this from? His time in Atlanta was completely different and yes this is a joke.
    I'm pulling it from the time he won MVPth man of the year for the Des Moines Dragonflies in 2113 and this is not a joke.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    What package would you take for him?
    A future 1st that's either unprotected or top 3 protected. Maybe if Kemba leaves and the Hornets want to remain competitive we can trade them Jrue for Biyombo, Bridges, and a top 3-5 protected 2020 pick.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    A future 1st that's either unprotected or top 3 protected. Maybe if Kemba leaves and the Hornets want to remain competitive we can trade them Jrue for Biyombo, Bridges, and a top 3-5 protected 2020 pick.
    If we trade Jrue Holiday for Bismack Biyombo and a PROTECTED pick, I'm going to send David Griffin various unpleasant tweets.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by pelicanchamp View Post
    No way we get Morant. Memphis isn’t stupid. They know what he can do.


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    This. Morant is a better prospect than any combination of picks following him. If Zion wasnt in this draft, Ja would be the runaway favorite for the #1 overall pick. Plus considering he's a small town guy, who would fit perfect with the culture in Memphis. It would take a nice size haul to pry him away from them.

    Edit: Put it like this. Phoenix probably would've drafted Morant over Ayton last year.
    Last edited by HoustonPelicans; 05-23-2019 at 06:25 PM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If we trade Jrue Holiday for Bismack Biyombo and a PROTECTED pick, I'm going to send David Griffin various unpleasant tweets.
    I don't know if teams will be giving away unprotected picks on the regular. Biyombo is a solid big, but he's there to make salaries close. The prize would be Bridges and the pick.

    Not sure what the market will be for Holiday. But If we can get another lottery pick next year with a solid prospect like Bridges personally I'd be totally fine with it.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    If we trade Jrue Holiday for Bismack Biyombo and a PROTECTED pick, I'm going to send David Griffin various unpleasant tweets.
    Agreed. That seems way too cheap for me. We're in a world where an expiring Tobias Harris got 2 1st round picks. Jrue is locked up for 3 more years. He should fetch a crazy good price.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonPelicans View Post
    This. Morant is a better prospect than any combination of picks following him. If Zion wasnt in this draft, Ja would be the runaway favorite for the #1 overall pick. Plus considering he's a small town guy, who would fit perfect with the culture in Memphis. It would take a nice size haul to pry him away from them.

    Edit: Put it like this. Phoenix probably would've drafted Morant over Ayton last year.
    If Zion wasn't in this draft, this could rival as one of the worst drafts of the modern NBA.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    Agreed. That seems way too cheap for me. We're in a world where an expiring Tobias Harris got 2 1st round picks. Jrue is locked up for 3 more years. He should fetch a crazy good price.
    Wasn't Miles Bridges a 1st round pick just this past draft.

  14. #64
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! pelicanchamp's Avatar
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    Pels aren’t getting Morant. Not happening. Memphis is on cloud 9 about getting this kid. They’re not going to trade the 2nd pick.


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  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Wasn't Miles Bridges a 1st round pick just this past draft.
    He was. *WAS*. Who's the guy on our team that got traded to us in the Niko deal who WAS a 1st round pick?

    I'll need more than Bridges and a protected future 1st for Jrue. He's got the highest value he's ever had right now and is locked in for 3 more years.

  16. #66
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    He was. *WAS*. Who's the guy on our team that got traded to us in the Niko deal who WAS a 1st round pick?

    I'll need more than Bridges and a protected future 1st for Jrue. He's got the highest value he's ever had right now and is locked in for 3 more years.
    2 more years with a player option for a 3rd.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NMThreeMVP View Post
    2 more years with a player option for a 3rd.
    Is it a player option last year? I thought it was a straight 5 year deal.

    Edit: yeah looks like it. So 2+1. Will be interesting to see if at 32 Jrue will turn down his option or not.
    Last edited by Mythrol; 05-23-2019 at 08:41 PM.

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrol View Post
    He was. *WAS*. Who's the guy on our team that got traded to us in the Niko deal who WAS a 1st round pick?

    I'll need more than Bridges and a protected future 1st for Jrue. He's got the highest value he's ever had right now and is locked in for 3 more years.
    Doesn't matter he's on a rookie contract. Players rarely get their value back in return. Value also depends on so many other factors. I look around and I'm not sure how many teams are in a position to return value that would be willing to trade Holiday. I could be way off and he could get more who really knows. You asked a question I answered.
    Last edited by da ThRONe; 05-23-2019 at 10:23 PM.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by da ThRONe View Post
    Doesn't matter he's on a rookie contract. Players rarely get their value back in return. Value also is depends on so many other factors. I look around and I'm not sure how many teams are in a position to return value that would be willing to trade Holiday. I could be way off and he could get more how really knows. You asked a question I answered.
    Not an argument from me, just find the value lacking. Put it to you like this, I'd rather keep Jrue than trade him for that. He adds value to the team in being a veteran for the young guys.

  20. #70
    I think we all know that in the NBA, picks themselves can often be more valuable than the player they produce. It's a similar thing in that context: 2 first round picks is more valuable than one first round pick and Mikal Bridges.

    The reason for this is pretty obvious: a first round pick itself holds no value. Its value is a conferred one: it gets it purely by allowing you access to a player (obviously), and because that player is unknown at the time of it being a pick, their value is whatever you want it to be. A 15th pick could be Giannis, or Kawhi in waiting. It could also be Adreian Payne or Austin Daye. It's totally unknown. The pick is a gamble, but the upside is huge.

    A player is much less risky because they're a known factor, but they're also far less valuable because they don't have that same potential. Nobody thinks Mikal Bridges is going to be a superstar. He may one day be a solid player, but nobody has watched his game and seen 25 points per in his future. It's just not there: that's not an insult to him, it's true for most players, but it's something you have to consider. The pick does have that potential though.

    So yeah, 2 FRP > 1 FRP and Mikal Bridges.

    I would argue that unless those are highly valuable lottery picks though (proj. top 7) then it's still absurd to trade Jrue for that. He's the kind of player you hope a FRP turns into, other than a superstar.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I think we all know that in the NBA, picks themselves can often be more valuable than the player they produce. It's a similar thing in that context: 2 first round picks is more valuable than one first round pick and Mikal Bridges.

    The reason for this is pretty obvious: a first round pick itself holds no value. Its value is a conferred one: it gets it purely by allowing you access to a player (obviously), and because that player is unknown at the time of it being a pick, their value is whatever you want it to be. A 15th pick could be Giannis, or Kawhi in waiting. It could also be Adreian Payne or Austin Daye. It's totally unknown. The pick is a gamble, but the upside is huge.

    A player is much less risky because they're a known factor, but they're also far less valuable because they don't have that same potential. Nobody thinks Mikal Bridges is going to be a superstar. He may one day be a solid player, but nobody has watched his game and seen 25 points per in his future. It's just not there: that's not an insult to him, it's true for most players, but it's something you have to consider. The pick does have that potential though.

    So yeah, 2 FRP > 1 FRP and Mikal Bridges.

    I would argue that unless those are highly valuable lottery picks though (proj. top 7) then it's still absurd to trade Jrue for that. He's the kind of player you hope a FRP turns into, other than a superstar.
    Again this is very shortsighted. Not that anybody's wrong or right on what Holiday's value is atm, but it takes a very narrow view. Value depends on some many things. For example how valuable is a first rounder for the Bucks or Warriors which is almost certainly going to be more like an early 2nd than 1st. Brooklyn's pick was supposed to be gold for Boston until they made the playoffs this year. Those things shift and if the Hornets trade for Holiday and make other great offseason moves have a surprise Denver Nuggets type season now that pick is in the mid to late 20's. Plus we're likely to get a ton of future draft picks via a Davis trade. As people like to point out you'd like to have some guys in with at least some NBA experience.

    This isn't even getting to the point that it was an on-the-fly trade situation I thought of. Something like this year's pick could likely be in play or this is something neither team would even come close to considering.

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