PELS WIN LOTTERY! Does AD stay?

[wuggie]

Omg... The Coli (My other Bball forum) Knicks fans
have lost their collective minds and talking nonsense and trashing our city. What
A bunch of sore loser

Im ignoring other boards now and the Coli...don't even get me started on them lol

[Pelicanidae]

Other teams are jealous, and to an extent I understand.

We had CP3, it collapsed and fell apart, he leaves and we immediately get AD dropped into our laps. Superstar out, superstar in.

Then we have nearly 10 years with AD, it falls apart, he's leaving, and we immediately get Zion dropped into our laps. Superstar out, superstar in.

For a team like LA which hasn't drafted a star since 1996, and (outside of Lebron) hasn't got a big name free agent since Shaq, they're probably thinking, ''come on man, why do they get all the luck''.

What they're forgetting, in the haze of envy that is Zion Williamson, is that they had 3 #2 overall picks in 5 years plus Lebron and still weren't a playoff team.

They're not viewing it rationally, which isn't their fault: like I said, it does seem like we've been unfairly lucky in that way, especially if you're an outsider who hasn't paid attention to the massive amount of horrible luck we've had in those in between years. All they see is us getting superstar after superstar after superstar, and messing it up again and again, and being gifted another superstar for the privilege.

Not saying they're making sense. They aren't. I just get why they're mad.

[luckyman]

Pelicans didn't have "nearly" 10 years with AD. People have really been trying to over play his time here. He got drafted here at age 19 and underweight. Took him 3 years just to get to the point you didn't cringe when he had to guard another post player. He used to get manhandled by David West. At the end of that 20 point Warriors playoff come back, Pelicans still had a chance to win, gave it to AD, and he could do nothing but fall down trying to make a move on a bigger, stronger Andrew Bogut.

Pelicans have legit had about 3 years to really win with him as the centerpiece. Even less considering all his injuries. Nowhere near "nearly 10 years".

Difference this time is Zion's body is literally ready now. So he won't have that particular issue.

[Pelicanidae]

Pelicans didn't have "nearly" 10 years with AD. People have really been trying to over play his time here. He got drafted here at age 19 and underweight. Took him 3 years just to get to the point you didn't cringe when he had to guard another post player. He used to get manhandled by David West. At the end of that 20 point Warriors playoff come back, Pelicans still had a chance to win, gave it to AD, and he could do nothing but fall down trying to make a move on a bigger, stronger Andrew Bogut.

Pelicans have legit had about 3 years to really win with him as the centerpiece. Even less considering all his injuries. Nowhere near "nearly 10 years".

Difference this time is Zion's body is literally ready now. So he won't have that particular issue.

The fact that AD took time to progress doesn't change the fact that we have had him here, on contract, for 7 years. That's the better part of ten years. When someone says Kobe spent 20 years with the Lakers, nobody says ''oh yeah but tbh he was kind of crap in his first few seasons and then he got injured at the end so the Lakers only really had him for 15 years.'' That's not how it works.

[N.O.Bronco]

Other teams are jealous, and to an extent I understand.

We had CP3, it collapsed and fell apart, he leaves and we immediately get AD dropped into our laps. Superstar out, superstar in.

Then we have nearly 10 years with AD, it falls apart, he's leaving, and we immediately get Zion dropped into our laps. Superstar out, superstar in.

For a team like LA which hasn't drafted a star since 1996, and (outside of Lebron) hasn't got a big name free agent since Shaq, they're probably thinking, ''come on man, why do they get all the luck''.

What they're forgetting, in the haze of envy that is Zion Williamson, is that they had 3 #2 overall picks in 5 years plus Lebron and still weren't a playoff team.

They're not viewing it rationally, which isn't their fault: like I said, it does seem like we've been unfairly lucky in that way, especially if you're an outsider who hasn't paid attention to the massive amount of horrible luck we've had in those in between years. All they see is us getting superstar after superstar after superstar, and messing it up again and again, and being gifted another superstar for the privilege.

Not saying they're making sense. They aren't. I just get why they're mad.

LA and NY have a built-in advantage.....They are LA and NY.

I will never really empathize with a franchise that literally has superstars wanting to go there no matter the situation their ownership/management puts them in.

No rabbit's foot in the draft can ever give you that.

The teams I would be ok feeling bad for are the Phoenix's, Minnesota's, Atlanta's, and Memphis's. The teams without any built-in advantages, that relatively do the right things, and can't seem to ever catch that perfect break.

I mean look at Philly. Solid market, a great fanbase that has bought in. There is a real chance that Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris walk away from a championship caliber core to go to bigger markets like NY or LA. And rumors are Ben Simmons may be seriously considering taking his qualifying offer and leaving after his rookie contract. Players will outright leave great teams to go to glamour markets with management that has ran everything they touched into the ground. I just can't sympathize with entitled Laker and Knicks fans.

[DroopyDawg]

Interesting take. (via The Ringer)

After the lottery, Griffin acknowledged to reporters that having the no. 1 pick affords the franchise more flexibility in the coming months. There’s less pressure to deal Davis now. The Pelicans can play it slow, going into the season with a core of AD, Zion, and Jrue Holiday, and see how things play out. If February 2020 rolls around and Davis still wants to leave, the team could trade him before the deadline for a haul. If Davis’s true reason for originally wanting out was to compete for a championship, how many teams can he now find with more long-term potential than the Pelicans? “He’s wanted to win this whole time and he felt compelled to try to win elsewhere. I think if you look at the totality of where this organization is and where we’re going, we feel very strongly that we’re going to be the environment he wants to be part of,” Griffin said. “And if we’re not, that’s fine; we can deal with it from there. But I’m looking at this, believing that there’s no reason he wouldn’t want to win with us, because that’s what we do. It’s who we are. And I think culturally we’re about all the same things.”

Griff didn't mean any of that. He's saying all the right things to drive up the price for AD. If AD does want to stay he'd say it before the draft, because we can't risk playing AD with his injury history. If we do something stupid like force him to play with the Pels, and he gets hurt that'll kill our leverage, then teams will just wait til he hits the market next summer.

Trade him to the highest bidder and get this rebuild started.

[Pelicanidae]

LA and NY have a built-in advantage.....They are LA and NY.

I will never really empathize with a franchise that literally has superstars wanting to go there no matter the situation their ownership/management puts them in.

No rabbit's foot in the draft can ever give you that.

The teams I would be ok feeling bad for are the Phoenix's, Minnesota's, Atlanta's, and Memphis's. The teams without any built-in advantages, that relatively do the right things, and can't seem to ever catch that perfect break.

I mean look at Philly. Solid market, a great fanbase that has bought in. There is a real chance that Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris walk away from a championship caliber core to go to bigger markets like NY or LA. And rumors are Ben Simmons may be seriously considering taking his qualifying offer and leaving after his rookie contract. Players will outright leave great teams to go to glamour markets with management that has ran everything they touched into the ground. I just can't sympathize with entitled Laker and Knicks fans.

Well that's part of my point. They don't have superstars going there no matter the situation. Like I said, after Lebron (who is there for non-basketball reasons), they haven't signed a top flight free agent since Shaq in 1996. I don't remember the last top 10 player who went to NYC at all. Probably happened before I was born.

I do feel worse for teams like Phoenix and Minnesota who, like you said, just can't ever seem to catch that perfect break, but I'm just saying that I can understand the reason that a LA fan, having sucked hard for the majority of the last 18 years or so, with very little incoming talent in either FA or the draft, would think it kind of absurd that the Pels just seem (from the outside) to have a conveyor belt feeding superstars into it despite our inability to do anyhting with them.

[N.O.Bronco]

Well that's part of my point. They don't have superstars going there no matter the situation. Like I said, after Lebron (who is there for non-basketball reasons), they haven't signed a top flight free agent since Shaq in 1996. I don't remember the last top 10 player who went to NYC at all. Probably happened before I was born.

I do feel worse for teams like Phoenix and Minnesota who, like you said, just can't ever seem to catch that perfect break, but I'm just saying that I can understand the reason that a LA fan, having sucked hard for the majority of the last 18 years or so, with very little incoming talent in either FA or the draft, would think it kind of absurd that the Pels just seem (from the outside) to have a conveyor belt feeding superstars into it despite our inability to do anyhting with them.

'

It's not just free agency, its the leverage they get in trades. No one says send me to NOLA and I'll sign, or any small market for that matter, unless it is incredibly well established. A limiting factor on the franchise with the outgoing star's return. That happens far more frequently(if not exclusively) with big markets. Superstar wants out, the teams on that list are almost always one of the 3 to 5 big markets franchises and because their choice is selective, it limits the leverage of that smaller team. Smaller teams that sign them anyways tend to have to give up more and are exposed to much higher risk. The bigger markets get the luxury of offering less assets than if they were smaller and are exposed to much less flight risk.

Cp3 would have forced his way there if not for the league, Carmello and Amare did the same for NY. LA got Lebron. Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, and they were able to leverage their market's clout to close the deal with Pau Gasol. On top of that, they have had 3 #2 draft picks in recent years.

Nola will never have all of that. Entitled LA fans can buzz off.

[Eman5805]

Watching his highlights and looking for things that I hadn't noticed...

He has really good hands. Snatches the rock out of the air with one hand in a lot of instances.

[Pelicanidae]

'

It's not just free agency, its the leverage they get in trades. No one says send me to NOLA and I'll sign. Or any small market for that matter unless it is incredibly well established. That happens far more frequently with big markets. Superstar wants out, the teams on that list are almost always one of the 3 to 5 big markets franchises.

Cp3 would have forced his way there if not for the league, Carmello and Amare did the same for NY. LA got Lebron. Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, and were able to leverage their market's clout to close the deal with Pau Gasol. On top of that they have had 3 #2 draft picks in recent years.

Nola will likely never have that. Entitled LA fans can buzz off.

I agree, they can buzz off. They don't have a good point, because, like you said, they had 3 #2 draft picks within the space of 5 years. If they had drafted well, they could conceivably have drafted Donovan Mitchell, Pascal Siakam, and Devin Booker with those #2 spots. Or De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, and Myles Turner. Or any number of other good players, those are just examples. They have had plenty of chances to add top level talent through the draft: they just have sucked at it.

I'm just trying to explain the thought process that a Lakers fan might have that would cause this kind of overblown reaction to the Pels getting a good pick, and how there is some logic behind it even if that logic is distorted and wrong-headed.

[Pelicanidae]

Watching his highlights and looking for things that I hadn't noticed...

He has really good hands. Snatches the rock out of the air with one hand in a lot of instances.

I love his footwork in the post as well. Doesn't get talked about as much as his fast break game or his super dunks, but he has some real finesse.

[N.O.Bronco]

I agree, they can buzz off. They don't have a good point, because, like you said, they had 3 #2 draft picks within the space of 5 years. If they had drafted well, they could conceivably have drafted Donovan Mitchell, Pascal Siakam, and Devin Booker with those #2 spots. Or De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, and Myles Turner. Or any number of other good players, those are just examples. They have had plenty of chances to add top level talent through the draft: they just have sucked at it.

I'm just trying to explain the thought process that a Lakers fan might have that would cause this kind of overblown reaction to the Pels getting a good pick, and how there is some logic behind it even if that logic is distorted and wrong-headed.

Fair enough.

I'm just not really at a place where I care to empathize, let alone sympathize right now. What with the stream of national media gaslighting and ESPN carrying the Laker's water the last 6 months(and most of his career in NOLA) trying to prime the pump and inject thought worms into AD and every other superstar in a small market to get them to start demanding a big market.

[Pelicanidae]

Fair enough.

I'm just not really at a place where I care to empathize, let alone sympathize right now. What with the stream of national media gaslighting and ESPN carrying the Laker's water the last 6 months(and most of his career in NOLA) trying to prime the pump and inject thought worms into AD and every other superstar in a small market to get them to start demanding a big market.

I'm honestly hoping that Kawhi stays in Toronto just because it will help push back at the idea that you have to be in a big market. In recent years we've had KD skip town on OKC to go to Oakland, Russ stay in OKC, PG13 turn down LA to stay in OKC, Giannis dedicate his entire life to Milwaukee, and Lillard rededicate himself again and again to Portland. If Kawhi doubles down in Toronto, and then Zion really commits to New Orleans, then I think it will be safe to say that we're at a point where players are picking their spots rather than just capitulating to the market. Which would be great news for smaller franchises, and imo, the NBA is at its best when there's talent everywhere and any team can be fun.

[Taker597]

Im ignoring other boards now and the Coli...don't even get me started on them lol

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-...#post-33671611

SOOO MUCH SALTINESS

[PELICANSFAN]

I'm honestly hoping that Kawhi stays in Toronto just because it will help push back at the idea that you have to be in a big market. In recent years we've had KD skip town on OKC to go to Oakland, Russ stay in OKC, PG13 turn down LA to stay in OKC, Giannis dedicate his entire life to Milwaukee, and Lillard rededicate himself again and again to Portland. If Kawhi doubles down in Toronto, and then Zion really commits to New Orleans, then I think it will be safe to say that we're at a point where players are picking their spots rather than just capitulating to the market. Which would be great news for smaller franchises, and imo, the NBA is at its best when there's talent everywhere and any team can be fun.

Toronto is actually a very big market too, but I get your point.

[Pelicanidae]

Toronto is actually a very big market too, but I get your point.

It's a big market, but it's not a storied franchise, and that's good enough for the talking heads to go against them. The general consensus among the media is that Toronto is a great city but nobody wants to be there and nobody wants to play there.

[luckyman]

The fact that AD took time to progress doesn't change the fact that we have had him here, on contract, for 7 years. That's the better part of ten years. When someone says Kobe spent 20 years with the Lakers, nobody says ''oh yeah but tbh he was kind of crap in his first few seasons and then he got injured at the end so the Lakers only really had him for 15 years.'' That's not how it works.

No it doesnt work like that. 20 years is legitimately an entire career, so 15 or 20 years makes no difference in that case. The word is called magnitude.

How ever, there is a huge difference in 3 years versus 7 or 10. Especially when the 3 years are among the very first 3. Thats not even debateable. I even gave you clear examples where you can see he's still growing as a player here. He just learned what the word "assist" means last year.

People that say he wasted prime years here are just idiots. He's just NOW entering his prime.

[SmontySwilliams]

NOLA built AD. Now that he can grow a man's beard (almost) he thinks he is a top dog all by himself. He is not. He is where he is because of the money, time, patience, and energy applied to him by this franchise to grow (I guess only physically, not mentally). Yes he has earned the historic start to his career but it is also significantly owed to the people around him.

Zion is already NBA fit. One year at Duke didn't do that, he did that. Zion is a basketball god.

If AD was smart he would stay, he is not.

I sincerely hope we trade with the Knicks and get RJ BUT only if RJ genuinely wants to continue to play 2nd string to Zion. RJ may want to let his own light shine. If he does want to stick with Zion I'm bout it bout it.

I'm so happy for Jrue too, you know he is pumped to have this man child in a Pels uniform.

[NOLA_Dave]

Teams make their Zion pitch to the lottery gods...and LeBron is drinking through it all 😂 (@StateFarm) #GameOfZones pic.twitter.com/2IFFhOZbk4

— Bleacher Report (@BleacherReport) May 16, 2019