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If I am Griff’s new GM, I would go to Cleveland and try to make a deal for Love. Perhaps EM and Hill plus a couple of second round picks. If that happens then we are a more attractive option to the AD camp staying, and more importantly, makes his leaving more costly to whatever teams want him.
With Love and Jrue here, most any deal we get for AD now, will still be available to us from any teams looking to make a final push at next year’s deadline if we are not a major factor ourselves.Originally Posted by Silver Nail
You want Kevin Love's contract anywhere near this team? Chronically injured, serious back problems that plague him throughout entire seasons, already 31 years old and is getting $30m per season for the next 4 years?
Basketball.
We also have Nelson, the guy has revived a lot of over the hill players, so yeah, I want him, I think AD stays if we have him and to be honest I think we have more immediate value then waiting to unload Hill at next deadline. If we wait we can't negotiate AD's departure from a position of strength.
Only person that wanted to pull the trigger on the deal (that had any semblance of a voice) was Alvin.
Dell, Ferry, and all of ownership were strong no.
Would you take Ben Simmons in some kind of deal? I just can't sell myself on him. I watched him play at LSU & he looks exactly the same.
BTW- If I can get Oubre for certain in that PHX deal, I truly like that deal.
Are you saying this was already proposed and ownership said no? IF that is the case, than perhaps it should be revisited since those players are no longer calling the shots and things change daily. Especially opinions.
Nelson has already revived a lot of over the hill players, but there's a huge difference.
When Grant Hill went to Phoenix and had his career brought back by Nelson, he was on a minimum contract, getting less than $2m a year. In that case, you take the risk because you know you have a good chance of your training staff bringing them back to playable condition, and if they fail then it's no big loss.
Love is on a contract which has $120 MILLION left on it. If you bring him back to peak condition, great! If you fail, you have pretty much a third of your salary destroyed for the next four years. That's a huge difference.
And I don't know what you're talking about when you say we ''can't negotiate AD's departure from a position of strength''. We're already IN the position of strength: he's signed on a contract for an entire season with absolutely no control in where he gets traded. We have the leverage to play kingmaker to a bunch of teams who are looking to make moves into next season, whether that's Boston attempting to salvage the Kyrie era, or the Knicks attempting to enter relevance again. If we make a trade for K.Love now in the abject hope that he will suddenly be good again and that that will convince AD to stay, then you are literally throwing away all that leverage because nobody is trading diddly-squat for AD next trade deadline when he has 3 months left on his contract.
Nope. Simmons is no superstar to me. I don't see the superstar in him either, for the future. He's a very good player and I think he will continue to be a very good player with a set of clear limitations that will prevent him from ever being the leader on a winning team. Can't shoot. Can't defend particularly well. Can't guard up. Shrinks under pressure.
Ben Simmons is no superstar, Donovan Mitchell is a superstar. Ben Simmons is a guy who will top out as a top 20-30 player, but he will never be a guy who will get you over th top.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Ben Simmons is an average to slightly above average who is useless in the playoffs. Love is a bad contract. I’d pass on either.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 05-09-2019 at 07:00 PM.
Pretty sure he is referring to the Lakers proposal.
No, I'm saying that the org from top to bottom was on the same page about not dealing with the Lakers. It was only Alvin who wanted it, because he didnt want to deal with the locker mess and actually likes Lonzo.
Ownership's stance hasn't changed. They are going to need a better deal from LA (4 picks) to get it done.
Alvin should have been fired.
Something we agree on!
I don’t think it’s a better deal from LA so much as it’s a better deal from another team. Not much LA can really offer outside of Lebron that they haven’t. This was all about entering the off season where we have even more leverage as a lot more teams enter the discussion. Lakers deal is still a great one imo and the way Griffin feels about Ingram it is a very real option.
Kuzma and LBJ are the only decent players the Lakers have. Ball and Ingram will never amount to anything substantial in the NBA. People who think Ball and Ingram could be legitimate contributors on a contending team do not know what they are talking about. And that is putting it nicely.
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That’s a tall order. Revamp the whole organization from the trainers to the scouts, properly scout for the draft, AND find a whole new coaching staff? There’s no reason to fire Gentry now that isn’t just as fine to do next year.
I largely agree on Ingram, especially if you're talking about right now. I don't think he's ever going to be a superstar, and I've been clear on that, but especially right now he'd be useless on a team with real aspirations.
I do disagree slightly on Ball though. I don't think he can be the best player on a contender, god no. I don't think he could be the second best either. But could he be a decent piece on a team without completely destroying it? Yeah, I think he could. He does have some skills, even if he also has glaring weaknesses.
Trade AD, draft a new guy. Have a brand new team filled with young talent, looking to form an identity, have them play together in a certain style with a certain mindset together for a year.
And then fire the coach.
That's why you consider firing Gentry now (or rather, firing him a month ago). Cause otherwise you have to either accept keeping him on long term, or face up to the fact you're going to have to can him and disrupt continuity and the education of a whole group of young names. That goes double for if you take the Boston trade and you end up having Brown and Tatum playing for 3 coaches in three years (Stevens in Boston, Gentry their first year here, then another guy their second year here).
Alvin Gentry has never shown he can develop a winner from young talent. He has failed as a head coach in every job he has had. The only way he can win consistently is if Griffin provides him with a roster that an amateur could coach to the playoffs.
So you know what you are talking about but not David Griffin? Makes complete sense. We must have hired an absolute idiot just putting it nicely since he has stated he believes Ingram is a cornerstone piece. These guys can’t be legitimate contributors? Now if you wanna say Ingram won’t be a super star.. Go ahead that’s not some bold statement when their are how many super stars? I’ll be on him becoming an all star caliber player next season. Ball again is not some bold statement saying he won’t be something. He is already one of the best defensive PGs in the league. He is a solid jumper away from being a star and if that never develops you have a 6’6 Rondo. Now I’m not a Ball fan but it’s a little foolish for anybody to claim someone doesn’t know what they are talking about because they believe at 21 and 20 year old kid still can develop into very good players. The ones around here that want to act like they have the only opinions that matter are the ones that don’t really know what they are talking about. That’s ok cause time will make some people look very very foolish on this topic..
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If Griffin were just installing a new piece here or there, I'd agree. But he's not. He's making sweeping changes to the whole organizational make. Takes a LOT of resources to do what he's about to do and bringing in a new coach just isn't all that important. I mean, how many coaches in the NBA honestly make a world of difference to their team? Maybe three? MAYBE? Coach Pop and maybe two other guys? What are the odds the guy we bring in is that good at it? Not like we don't have a good coaching staff already, Gentry included. Worrying about guys having different coaches is immaterial, because rosters with talent matter more.
I'm saying that it makes sense to just put something that isn't critical to our future off for later and not over extend when we're so early into the process. We'd be crazy to be in win-now mode without AD buying in, which none of us thinks he'll do. So...why does it matter when the coach we bring in next is brought in? Hell, sucking for another season would be beneficial as the next two drafts should be nicer.
Must be a Lakers fan. I’ll take the smart money and go with my original opinion. I implore you to call me out when A team with Ingram and Ball In it’s top 3 contributors even wins a playoff series. Both players will never be more than low to mid level starters on bad teams. If David Griffin trades AD for Ingram and Ball, it’s still a terrible trade. Also, I would lose all respect for David Griffin’s team building capabilities.
Last edited by Darkhorse985; 05-10-2019 at 07:00 PM.
Sucking for the next season is only beneficial if that suckage doesn't come at the detriment of the progression of the same young guys we're hoping will eventually lead us into productive basketball again.
I can totally understand the argument that says that you can't change everything at once and that it's better to just leave Gentry where he's not doing any harm rather than add something new to the plate of things to do. I get that. I'm just also acutely aware that while great coaches are rare, sure, a bad coach can really damage a player and Alvin is not a good coach. He just isn't. He's been a head coach for something like 16 seasons (can't remember exactly) and I can count the number of winning seasons he's had on one hand. Whatever you think of him as an offensive co-ordinator, or assistant coach, or whatever, he is not a good NBA head coach. He's just not. Doesn't produce the goods.
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