Griff on “The Jump” show

[Darkhorse985]

I totally understand the injury argument. That's the biggest concern with Bol Bol and the only reason he isn't going in the top couple of picks. His skillset and measurements are all through the roof though. That's totally different than Diallo.

Also Bol isn't some freak of measurements. He basically is entering the league with exactly the same height, length, weight as Porzingis.

Porzingis is essentially a stretch 4 whose game is based on finesse. Bol Bol is a true center with a similar body. He will get physically destroyed in the NBA. The guy couldn’t even take the physical punishment in college. Also, I would say Porzingis is pretty injury prone. He has barely played the last 2 years. The Dallas picks that the Knicks received will be more valuable than people expect. I would not spend a lottery pick on Bol Bol. A late first round gamble, sure.

[Mythrol]

Porzingis is essentially a stretch 4 whose game is based on finesse. Bol Bol is a true center with a similar body. He will get physically destroyed in the NBA. The guy couldn’t even take the physical punishment in college. Also, I would say Porzingis is pretty injury prone. He has barely played the last 2 years. The Dallas picks that the Knicks received will be more valuable than people expect. I would not spend a lottery pick on Bol Bol. A late first round gamble, sure.

I mean I don't see how you can say Bol Bol is just a true center when he shot 50% from 3pt in college. His role should be very similar to Porzingis.

[Pelicanidae]

Porzingis is essentially a stretch 4 whose game is based on finesse. Bol Bol is a true center with a similar body. He will get physically destroyed in the NBA. The guy couldn’t even take the physical punishment in college. Also, I would say Porzingis is pretty injury prone. He has barely played the last 2 years. The Dallas picks that the Knicks received will be more valuable than people expect. I would not spend a lottery pick on Bol Bol. A late first round gamble, sure.

Porzingis in his rookie year: 7'3, 230lbs, 7'6 wingspan.
Bol Bol right now (per Tankathon): 7'2, 223lbs, 7'6 wingspan.

Given that Bol also demonstrated a fair amount of finesse and long range shooting in his time at college, how on earth do you put Porzingis as a "stretch 4 based on finesse" and Bol as a "true center"? Their measurements are almost identical.

Another guy who "couldn't even take the punishment in college", and was injured and sat out a year: Damian Lillard,

[Silverfoxx]

Porzingis in his rookie year: 7'3, 230lbs, 7'6 wingspan.
Bol Bol right now (per Tankathon): 7'2, 223lbs, 7'6 wingspan.

Given that Bol also demonstrated a fair amount of finesse and long range shooting in his time at college, how on earth do you put Porzingis as a "stretch 4 based on finesse" and Bol as a "true center"? Their measurements are almost identical.

Another guy who "couldn't even take the punishment in college", and was injured and sat out a year: Damian Lillard,

Bol Bol family history of injuries and his lack of foot speed at the next level will be tough for him

[Pelicanidae]

Bol Bol family history of injuries and his lack of foot speed at the next level will be tough for him

I do think there are legitimate reasons to be sceptical about Bol. The injury is definitely one of them: if you're dreading that this injury will be persistent and reoccuring, then that's a totally legit reason to want to avoid him.

I don't honestly think the lack of foot speed will be too big of a deal. A guy of his size and length has certain advantages that make foot-speed less of a must, like standing reach. He should also be looking to put on some weight so he can spend more time as a rim protector (think Porzingis or young AD), because if you have him playing his heavier minutes defending perimeter players who can take people off the bounce, then you're coaching badly anyway. There are very, very few centers who can defend guards and small forwards who can shoot and drive on the perimeter, and a good gameplan doesn't put those players in those positions often. It's like expecting Kyrie Irving to guard Marc Gasol in the post.

[PELICANSFAN]

Bol Bol is way too slow to play the stretch 4 on a regular basis. He will be someone who will be easy for teams to run off the court due to his lack of lateral quickness and slow feet. He will become a specialist or a solid role player.

[Darkhorse985]

Bol Bol is way too slow to play the stretch 4 on a regular basis. He will be someone who will be easy for teams to run off the court due to his lack of lateral quickness and slow feet. He will become a specialist or a solid role player.

Yes, even if doesn’t get recurring lower extremity injuries, which I think he will, his ceiling is a 15-20 minute a game slow footed center with 3-pt range. No where near being worth the 5th pick in the draft as some on this board have previously suggested.

[Darkhorse985]

Porzingis in his rookie year: 7'3, 230lbs, 7'6 wingspan.
Bol Bol right now (per Tankathon): 7'2, 223lbs, 7'6 wingspan.

Given that Bol also demonstrated a fair amount of finesse and long range shooting in his time at college, how on earth do you put Porzingis as a "stretch 4 based on finesse" and Bol as a "true center"? Their measurements are almost identical.

Another guy who "couldn't even take the punishment in college", and was injured and sat out a year: Damian Lillard,

Just because their measurements are similar, doesn’t mean their athleticism is. Porzingis moves way better for a big man than Bol Bol and actually plays the stretch 4 role which Bol Bol could never do. Bol Bol is way too slow to be a stretch 4.

[Mythrol]

Where is the bad foot speed coming from? My understanding was he was very agile for a guy his size. His biggest concerns are his injury future and his needing to bulk up for the NBA.

This is literally from the first paragraph of his scouting report from Nbadraft.net:

"Moves well and is able to get out and move in transition with solid agility ... Quick for his size and has solid agility ... Has the potential to be elite on both ends of the floor due to his freakish physical package ... Has the tools (speed, length, anticipation) to potentially be an elite rim protector ... Gets up really well after grabbing a rebound ... Explodes to the rim really well ... Elevates with ease and has very good lateral speed when he applies himself ..."

[Pelicanidae]

Just because their measurements are similar, doesn’t mean their athleticism is. Porzingis moves way better for a big man than Bol Bol and actually plays the stretch 4 role which Bol Bol could never do. Bol Bol is way too slow to be a stretch 4.

Not the point. The only reason I brought up measurements is because you said that he was a skinny string bean of a player and that he's too long and too lanky to be effective as an NBA player. I didn't bring up measurements because I thought measurements are proof of skill, I brought them up to show that if you think he's too long and too lanky, then you've also got to think that Porzingis is too long and too lanky as well, and since you presumably don't think that, your point is dead in the water.

Porzingis doesn't move that much better than Bol Bol, come on.

Where is the bad foot speed coming from? My understanding was he was very agile for a guy his size. His biggest concerns are his injury future and his needing to bulk up for the NBA.

I actually agree with Mythrol here: why is there suddenly this belief cropping up that Bol Bol has lead feet? He's not John Wall or anything, of course, but he's decently mobile. His speed, baseline to baseline, is pretty solid and he actually has some pretty quick spin moves and turnarounds in the post. He's not Kyrie Irving, but he's got a decent handle for a center as well.

And again: 18 years old. So if his handle isn't amazing, then who cares? He's 18, he can work on it for 3 years with real NBA coaches and a development team and still be younger than some of the rookies that will get drafted that year.

[Darkhorse985]

Using Porzingis as a player comparison doesn’t really help your point. Porzingis may have similar measurements, but his game is different. Porzingis’ game translates better to the fast paced NBA. That comparison also proves my point that players with that body type are injury prone and typically don’t have long successful NBA careers.

[Darkhorse985]

Where is the bad foot speed coming from? My understanding was he was very agile for a guy his size. His biggest concerns are his injury future and his needing to bulk up for the NBA.

This is literally from the first paragraph of his scouting report from Nbadraft.net:

"Moves well and is able to get out and move in transition with solid agility ... Quick for his size and has solid agility ... Has the potential to be elite on both ends of the floor due to his freakish physical package ... Has the tools (speed, length, anticipation) to potentially be an elite rim protector ... Gets up really well after grabbing a rebound ... Explodes to the rim really well ... Elevates with ease and has very good lateral speed when he applies himself ..."

Just watch some of his game tape.. The dude is no gazelle like that scouting paragraph exaggerates.

[Mythrol]

Just watch some of his game tape.. The dude is no gazelle like that scouting paragraph exaggerates.

I don't want your eye test. Link me a scout saying he's slow like you're claiming. I haven't seen any scouts saying this.

[Pelicanidae]

Just watch some of his game tape.. The dude is no gazelle like that scouting paragraph exaggerates.

Any time someone turns their argument to ''just watch the game tape'' or ''you need to watch more basketball'' or ''I guess I've just seen more basketball than you'' or anything like that, all it tells me is that you know you don't actually have a good point, so you just have to resort to that kind of nonsense.

I've watched Bol Bol play. Multiple full games. I've admitted that there is limited tape on him because he got injured early, so judgements are based on limited info. But when you watch his game tape, full games, he moves just fine. He's not John Wall supersized, no, but he's fine.

What does that paragraph say? ''Solid agility'', ''quick for his size'', ''has the tools (speed, length, anticipation)'', ''very good lateral speed''. I've watched the games, my eye test agrees with that.

[PELICANSFAN]

Any time someone turns their argument to ''just watch the game tape'' or ''you need to watch more basketball'' or ''I guess I've just seen more basketball than you'' or anything like that, all it tells me is that you know you don't actually have a good point, so you just have to resort to that kind of nonsense.

I've watched Bol Bol play. Multiple full games. I've admitted that there is limited tape on him because he got injured early, so judgements are based on limited info. But when you watch his game tape, full games, he moves just fine. He's not John Wall supersized, no, but he's fine.

What does that paragraph say? ''Solid agility'', ''quick for his size'', ''has the tools (speed, length, anticipation)'', ''very good lateral speed''. I've watched the games, my eye test agrees with that.

If he were a traditional center, his feet may be fine as he would be "quick for his size" in a short area. He likely will not be a traditional post up center. If he is going to play the 4, he needs to be quick enough to defend pick and rolls and transition quickly. He is a bit stiff/slow for that role. He will be forced off the court by NBA coaches. That, on top of a pretty difficult injury for a big man, makes him a risk high in the draft.

[PELICANSFAN]

A couple other views on him-

https://www.thestepien.com/bol-bol/


http://www.nbadraftroom.com/2016/03/bol-bol.html


With his injury, I see him going late lottery at best.

[Pelicanidae]

If he were a traditional center, his feet may be fine as he would be "quick for his size" in a short area. He likely will not be a traditional post up center. If he is going to play the 4, he needs to be quick enough to defend pick and rolls and transition quickly. He is a bit stiff/slow for that role. He will be forced off the court by NBA coaches. That, on top of a pretty difficult injury for a big man, makes him a risk high in the draft.

He's not going to be a stretch 4, he's going to be a stretch 5. Good coaches can do work with that. He's much more limited than Bol, but look at how key Brook Lopez has been for Milwaukee. There are very few traditional paint packing bigs in the NBA. They still exist and you still have to plan for them, but they are declining in prominence. Big men who can shoot are key right now, and I don't think that trend will fade quickly. He doesn't need to be elite on the perimeter, he just needs to be good enough that other centers won't be able to leave him in the dirt, and he has that level of speed. As I said before, if you have him defending guards and small forwards on the perimeter with any regularity, something has gone wrong.

I'm totally willing to concede the injury risk: if you have serious worries about that, then that's totally legitimate. Happy to admit that.

[Mythrol]

If he were a traditional center, his feet may be fine as he would be "quick for his size" in a short area. He likely will not be a traditional post up center. If he is going to play the 4, he needs to be quick enough to defend pick and rolls and transition quickly. He is a bit stiff/slow for that role. He will be forced off the court by NBA coaches. That, on top of a pretty difficult injury for a big man, makes him a risk high in the draft.

What position does Porzingis play? I see no reason why Bol can't be effective in the exact same way.

[PELICANSFAN]

He's not going to be a stretch 4, he's going to be a stretch 5. Good coaches can do work with that. He's much more limited than Bol, but look at how key Brook Lopez has been for Milwaukee. There are very few traditional paint packing bigs in the NBA. They still exist and you still have to plan for them, but they are declining in prominence. Big men who can shoot are key right now, and I don't think that trend will fade quickly. He doesn't need to be elite on the perimeter, he just needs to be good enough that other centers won't be able to leave him in the dirt, and he has that level of speed. As I said before, if you have him defending guards and small forwards on the perimeter with any regularity, something has gone wrong.

I'm totally willing to concede the injury risk: if you have serious worries about that, then that's totally legitimate. Happy to admit that.

Lopez can bang if needed. Bol will need to put on some weight to play the 5.

[PELICANSFAN]

What position does Porzingis play? I see no reason why Bol can't be effective in the exact same way.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would not use our 7 (if we stay there) on him.

[Mythrol]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would not use our 7 (if we stay there) on him.

No one said take him at 7. Bol Bol came up because people were trying to compare Diallo to him and that's simply not the case. He compares much closer to Porzingis than Diallo.

[Pelicanidae]

Lopez can bang if needed. Bol will need to put on some weight to play the 5.

I totally agree. My argument for that though is simple: he's 18 years old. When AD came into the league he was 220lbs soaking wet, and people said he needed to put on weight. Now he's 250. Bol Bol weighs somewhere in the region of 220-230 right now. He's 18 years old. He can put on 30lbs or so. Embiid is only 2 inches shorter than Bol Bol and he weighs 250lbs and nobody sees any issues with that.

[JJackisangry]

I totally agree. My argument for that though is simple: he's 18 years old. When AD came into the league he was 220lbs soaking wet, and people said he needed to put on weight. Now he's 250. Bol Bol weighs somewhere in the region of 220-230 right now. He's 18 years old. He can put on 30lbs or so. Embiid is only 2 inches shorter than Bol Bol and he weighs 250lbs and nobody sees any issues with that.

I think the biggest thing that people are forgetting is that we don’t need to rush him at all. Jah is still under contract. There would be something wrong if he was playing heavy minutes anyway.

[Pelicanidae]

I think the biggest thing that people are forgetting is that we don’t need to rush him at all. Jah is still under contract. There would be something wrong if he was playing heavy minutes anyway.

Exactly. If we were a team that was competing for a championship and we were looking for the rookie that can slot in to a specific need and perform immediately, like a rookie season Tatum or something, then that would be one thing. But we aren't. We may make the playoffs next year depending on what comes back in the AD trade, or we may not, but either way we won't be a championship contender. So for me, the fact that Bol might be a year or two in the weight room away from being ready to start at the 5 is totally inconsequential for me. Giannis was a beanpole too when he got drafted.

[PELICANSFAN]

No one said take him at 7. Bol Bol came up because people were trying to compare Diallo to him and that's simply not the case. He compares much closer to Porzingis than Diallo.

My bad, somewhere I got the notion that someone was suggesting he be our pick. Sorry.