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I'll give you that. PG didn't do to OKC fans what Khawi and AD did to theirs. OKC won the deal BECAUSE PG stayed and didn't go to the Lakers in free agency. Khawi is yet to be seen if he will do the same, he could dip out just like Cousins did.Originally Posted by Pelicanidae
He could, I don't think he does though. Obviously that's just personal opinion, but I feel like Kawhi's staying in Toronto, especially if they get to the conference finals or finals.
Basketball.
Somewhat off topic but in the realm and I do enjoy your opinions fwiw. How much, if at all do you see Boston's playoff run affecting Kyrie and trading for AD. Let's say they get to the finals or even win (unlikely). Does that decrease Bostons willingness to send the farm for AD? Should we be rooting for their early exit or does it not effect leverage at all?
I don't think it impacts anything. Kyrie has already shown that winning a ring with a team doesn't make him anymore likely to stay, and if AD goes to New York then Kyrie is basically out of the door. Winning the finals this year can't allow them to become complacent, because the moment it does, Kyrie is gone, AD is in New York, and they're scraping for the playoffs next season.
That said, I do think that the likelihood of them winning the finals is less than 1%, and the odds of them even getting there is probably like 25% max. They're not as good as Toronto or Milwaukee.
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Griffin is definitely being serious about keeping AD, as he should be. If AD is still unhappy a year after he signs the extension, then we have the best trade chip ever in the NBA, an even more valuable trade chip than it is right now. I feel very comfortable with Griffin in charge, now that I've digested everything a little more.
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Remember, both Kobe and Olajuwon demanded trades while in their primes, yet both were not traded. Both Kobe and Hakeem went on to win championships afterward. All of the AD drama can be forgiven with a sincere evaluation of what was going on and a sincere commitment to being the best he can be as a Pelican. I'll easily forgive everything that has transpired if he resigns with us. He is still an immature kid in many ways, but he would be our immature kid, one that we can help become a mature adult, as well as a champion. If we trade him, then so be it!
You're much more forgiving than you need to be. Good for you.
In my view, he can leave. He's given us no kind of sustained success, and signing him for a deal that would pay him upwards of FORTY million dollars per season would be equivalent of urinating on the cap sheet for the next 5 years. Signing that deal would be damn near guaranteeing that we win nothing for the next five years, and you know what happens when AD hasn't won anything for another 5 years but has collected $235m for that?
He walks away in free agency, and we start scrabbling to rebuild with a 33/34 year old Jrue and an AD that, even if we got the chance to try and trade then, would be 31 years old and not worth nearly the same value.
Those are risks you may take in some circumstances. Maybe he turns it around and becomes that leader and we do start winning. Maybe he doesn't, but he accepts the need to build more organically and we keep our draft picks and maybe build a few younger players like Denver did? Who knows.
But that's not a risk you take with the dude who somehow thinks admitting that he doesn't even dress himself is less embarrassing than owning up to his own mocking attitude towards the franchise, and openly states multiple times on television that he would rather be literally anywhere else.
The issue is though, there are very few players in the NBA more talented than him. So, do you spend that $40 million on 2 other players that you hope can give you somewhere near what AD can? It is a balancing act that Griffin will have to deal with.
I don't think it's necessarily even a case of expecting those other players to give you what AD can. I totally recognise that AD is one of the most talented players in the league. After Lebron, there may be no one more talented. Maybe KD, but really that's it. But we all know that sometimes things can be more, or less, than the sum of their parts. Do I think you could get two players, and have the tandem give us something close to what AD can give us? In terms of statistics, yes. In terms of individual gravity, very possibly not. But The ability to have those players there, with stability, and chemistry, and a willingness to be here without having alienated half the fanbase? That's worth a lot.
Obviously you're right, it's a balancing act, and if AD were to resign for the supermax, I would swallow my pride as much as possible and root for him because I want the team to win. But that desire to win might end up being in spite of AD, rather than because of him in some ways, and I'd much rather just have some fresh faces with buckets of potential and a desire to actually play for us without acting like petulant children.
I don’t recall PG demanding a trade, leaving during a game.
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Actually, yes you do take that risk with one of the best players in the world. If he wants to sign the extension after talking with Griffin, then you sign him in a heartbeat. You don't worry about whether or not he is going to leave in 5 years. You are seriously worried about 5 years from now!? Oy vey!
No, I'm worried about the process of those 5 years. If you told me right now that giving AD that contract might be annoying and galling, and that he was DEFINITELY leaving in 5 years, but it would guarantee us a championship, I'd say go for it.
But since I have absolutely ZERO reason to suspect that giving AD that contract would result in any degree of winning, given his historical inability to make us win anything + the added difficulty of trying to navigate a cap sheet when someone is earning such an obnoxious amount of money, then I have fair reason to suspect that those 5 years would be wasted too.
It's one thing to accept a risk if you have good reason to suspect it may pay off in some way. But if you have absolutely zero faith that there is any likelihood of a payoff, and you STILL take the risk, you're just asking to get burned and it's your own fault when you're forced to watch it collapse.
But this time through, instead of Dell's scattershot approach of "building " a team, you would have Griffin. I would like those odds better.
I would resign Davis in a heartbeat if he's in it for the long haul. The way Davis plays is an exciting brand of basketball to watch. Do I want us to do better, of course but I'd be happy if we could get to the point where Portland, Toronto, or the Kings when Webber was there.
On the other hand we could have a really good rebuild with the assets we would get back from Davis. If I could trade Davis for Tatum and Beal along with our first round pick, I'd do that as well but I still would rather keep Davis if he wants to be here.
“You are either all the way in or all the way out.”
-David Griffin
Griffin is not waiting around folks. He means business. Wait&See is not an option.
Last edited by 13 - 3; 04-18-2019 at 04:04 PM.
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Zero reason!? Have you seen him play basketball?
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Griffin made a point of saying that everyone has to be "all the way in," and AD would be no exception if he signed. I'd love to see an "all the way in" Davis play here for the next 5 years, at least. I would instantly forgive him of his transgressions, as would 98% of the fanbase. The other 2% will forgive him as we start winning, of which we most certainly will do if he signs the extension.
Not happening
What has Griffin done that made us choose him? He was gifted 3 1st overall picks. Couldn't keep things together with Irving and James thus losing them both. Drafting Bennett 1st overall is a stain that doesn't easily wipe off.
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It's that simple. Griffin will say, "I'm doing this. That. And the other thing. Tom Benson is no longer with us. And Dell Demps is done. Do you want to part of this awesome thing we're doing? Sign here. Otherwise, you can pack your bags for where ever gives us the best offer."
And if it were me, I'd trade him anyway even if he does sign. Could be just what I need to get him on a team that wouldn't normally want AD without the assurance of a contract. Be a crappy thing to do though, in a vacuum.
I believe he made the "all the way in or out" point was to give himself an out when he trades AD. AD is gone pecan!
Couldn’t have made a bette there then Griffin. Guy is exactly what this franchise needed. Excited for the future of this team. Got my tickets for next season!!
I 100% agree. If Griffin is enough to keep him here then there was obviously a lot going on behind the scenes he did not like. Can anyone blame him? I have been one of his biggest critics but I would absolutely forgive him if he gave a sincere apology and was committed going forward.
Yep. For 7 years.
Guess how many playoff games we've won? Guess how many winning seasons we've had? Guess how much sustained success there has been? It's quite clear that I said zero reason to suspect it would result in winning. I already know that having AD on your team results in big numbers and flashy dunks and highlight blocks. I've been quite emphatic in my belief that an engaged AD is a top 2 player in the world. But he has done absolutely nothing to turn those numbers into wins.
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