What do we do about Elfrid?

[SmontySwilliams]

You must be kidding, right? It's hard enough getting Jay Electronica to make music for his own career. Man is 42 years old and has 0 albums out. One mixtape. 12 years ago.

so true

fine Curren$y or Boosie or somebody...

[PELICANSFAN]

Don't blame anyone else if their point of view is different. Everyone has their own perspective, and I can only contribute mine.

I think that is exactly what he said.

[Mythrol]

I disagree with
1) Your specious logic that all NBA fan bases are alike. Philly has a much larger pool of fans to choose from to fill the arena & Phoenix is a city with lotsa of spare change to part with,while SUNS are spending time exploring strange new worlds. You know, large Metropolis (Tempe,Scottsdale, Glendale,Chandler), Plenty of well to do retirees,
2) Neither Phoenix nor Philly has ever been a target of constant propaganda & inuendo of being a team that "SHOULD MOVE TO SEATTLE"
3) I disagree with your notion that a STH that is sick & tired of losing (while spending tons of dough) & doesnt know a rats tail about Tanking or the inside workings of rebuilding is so easily going to come back three years later because the Pels are winning. New Orleans is a poor city & once those STH give up their tickets, their money becomes allocated for something else in life. Spare Change is not part of any equation.
4) I also know that STH renewals are down 15% from same time last year.
This team was 48-34 & swept Portland last year & couldnt sell more than 11,000 Season Tickets. So, if youre going to tell me that they are ,at this time, losing 15% (just under 1600 STH) & ZION is going to refill that jar (I say BUBKUS)
If your going to tell me that in 2-3 years, while STINKING again, isnt gonna cost another dip in STH, (I say BUBKUS). & if youre gonna tell me that
-> if- & thats a BIG IF (because Pels have, up to this point proven ZERO sustainability) that after one successful year in 2022, that in 2023 or 24 that fans will come pouring back in droves & reach the original 11,000 after a great 2018 season (then I say BUBKUS)
LEASE UP- Pels will be landing at Seatac.
As Ive stated. I want to just agree to disagree. You will not change my perception of this situation.

1/2) I never said that all fan bases are alike. I simply have more faith in the City of New Orleans to embrace a team again after tanking for 2 seasons. I also believe the city of New Orleans and the surrounding areas are far more passionate a group of people to let a team die due to tanking for a couple of seasons.

3) I never said that the STHs that were sick and tired of losing while spending big money wouldn't stop their tickets. Some will and I very clearly state that once you start winning you will replace them either with renewing STH or new fans.

I also think you grossly ignore the younger generation that is far more interested in basketball than football. As this coming generation of sports fans start aging into working and getting disposable income they will replace older fans who have gotten tired of the product.

4) I never said STH renewal rate wasn't down. Of COURSE IT IS! AD literally demanded a trade in the middle of the season! Of course losing for 2 years while tanking is going to again hurt the STH numbers. I never said differently.

I also never said Zion alone could recoup all the STHs lost after AD.

You seem to have built an entire argument against a strawman using things I've never said. I asked for clarification because I literally only said 2 things in the post that you could have said agree to disagree on. 1) That Zion would sell tickets and help offset some of the drop off due to tanking. 2) That if Phoenix and Philly can survive a half decade or dozen of years of tanking that Nola can survive two.

You then proceed to do some long post making crazy assumptions and trying to position my point in ways I NEVER SAID.

My opinion is very clear: If tanking for 2 years sets this team up for LONG TERM SUCCESS then no matter what the short term pain of lost STHs is, the long term success of the franchise is far more important.

That doesn't mean they will rebound in one year after tanking, it doesn't mean you won't lose some long time fans along the way, it doesn't mean that there won't be pain involved. But it is something that has proven to be true almost universally across sports.

I wasn't trying to argue with you. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong. Heck I wasn't even trying to change your mind on any of the points. I was simply asking WHICH of my two points you disagreed with because it wasn't clear to me if you disagreed with both points or just one of them.

[Pelicanidae]

I think that is exactly what he said.

Yep, and I was agreeing. I already apologised for the ambiguity that my response created because I left out the ''I'' in the first sentence. All's good.

[Tinman]

1/2) I never said that all fan bases are alike. I simply have more faith in the City of New Orleans to embrace a team again after tanking for 2 seasons. I also believe the city of New Orleans and the surrounding areas are far more passionate a group of people to let a team die due to tanking for a couple of seasons.

3) I never said that the STHs that were sick and tired of losing while spending big money wouldn't stop their tickets. Some will and I very clearly state that once you start winning you will replace them either with renewing STH or new fans.

I also think you grossly ignore the younger generation that is far more interested in basketball than football. As this coming generation of sports fans start aging into working and getting disposable income they will replace older fans who have gotten tired of the product.

4) I never said STH renewal rate wasn't down. Of COURSE IT IS! AD literally demanded a trade in the middle of the season! Of course losing for 2 years while tanking is going to again hurt the STH numbers. I never said differently.

I also never said Zion alone could recoup all the STHs lost after AD.

You seem to have built an entire argument against a strawman using things I've never said. I asked for clarification because I literally only said 2 things in the post that you could have said agree to disagree on. 1) That Zion would sell tickets and help offset some of the drop off due to tanking. 2) That if Phoenix and Philly can survive a half decade or dozen of years of tanking that Nola can survive two.

You then proceed to do some long post making crazy assumptions and trying to position my point in ways I NEVER SAID.

My opinion is very clear: If tanking for 2 years sets this team up for LONG TERM SUCCESS then no matter what the short term pain of lost STHs is, the long term success of the franchise is far more important.

That doesn't mean they will rebound in one year after tanking, it doesn't mean you won't lose some long time fans along the way, it doesn't mean that there won't be pain involved. But it is something that has proven to be true almost universally across sports.

I wasn't trying to argue with you. I wasn't trying to say you were wrong. Heck I wasn't even trying to change your mind on any of the points. I was simply asking WHICH of my two points you disagreed with because it wasn't clear to me if you disagreed with both points or just one of them.

Myth, I truly don't want to argue about this. But, you've created a Strawman based on what your perception is of future feelings of Pelicans fans regarding buying season tickets.
Your entir argument is based on how YOU feel STH's are going to or are supposed to react.
If you think that the people buying ST are the younger generation with Litetally NO MONEY, then there is truly no use in continuing this conversation.
You compared Philly & Pho. To N.O. . I addressed the reasons they are different.
This Football town can NOT afford to lose 1,500 STH this year & another 1,000 next year.
OLD MONEY is real money. New Money is a very hard sell .
I don't understand why you are making this an argument.
I have my opinion, based on the 100's of STH that I engage with 30-35 times a season for hours at a time.
You have your opinion based on how you think STH should/would react for another 2 years of stench.
Youre not going to change my perception & I'm not going to change yours. Why are you harping?
I posted quite simply (twice) --- I would like to agree to disagree .
You couldn't have just agreed to that?
This conversation has become circular.

[Mythrol]

Myth, I truly don't want to argue about this. But, you've created a Strawman based on what your perception is of future feelings of Pelicans fans regarding buying season tickets.
Your entir argument is based on how YOU feel STH's are going to or are supposed to react.
If you think that the people buying ST are the younger generation with Litetally NO MONEY, then there is truly no use in continuing this conversation.
You compared Philly & Pho. To N.O. . I addressed the reasons they are different.
This Football town can NOT afford to lose 1,500 STH this year & another 1,000 next year.
OLD MONEY is real money. New Money is a very hard sell .
I don't understand why you are making this an argument.
I have my opinion, based on the 100's of STH that I engage with 30-35 times a season for hours at a time.
You have your opinion based on how you think STH should/would react for another 2 years of stench.
Youre not going to change my perception & I'm not going to change yours. Why are you harping?
I posted quite simply (twice) --- I would like to agree to disagree .
You couldn't have just agreed to that?
This conversation has become circular.

Its not a matter of agreeing to disagree. Like I said I'm not trying to change your mind. I only asked for clarification on a point that wasn't clear to me. But I have to respond when you so grossly misrepresented my points in some long post I never asked you for.

Me having an opinion about the fan base different from yours isn't strawman, that's just an opinion. The same as you have an opinion. You are literally taking things I never said or even implied and trying to use that to argue why you disagree with me. That's strawman!

You've done it yet again in this post! Nowhere did I ever say this quote from you:

"If you think that the people buying ST are the younger generation with Litetally NO MONEY, then there is truly no use in continuing this conversation."

I never said this at all! I never implied this! Why are you so grossly misrepresenting what I am saying?

I said the younger generation is far more interested in basketball than football, this is a fact backed up by studies, and I said AS THEY AGE INTO WORKING they will replace the older generation.

The only circular thing in this is you misrepresenting what I'm saying and then using that as some justification to argue about things I'm not even trying to argue about. I don't understand how you could take me asking for simple clarification as some reason to go on a rant about why you disagree with my opinion.

[Tinman]

Its not a matter of agreeing to disagree. Like I said I'm not trying to change your mind. I only asked for clarification on a point that wasn't clear to me. But I have to respond when you so grossly misrepresented my points in some long post I never asked you for.

Me having an opinion about the fan base different from yours isn't strawman, that's just an opinion. The same as you have an opinion. You are literally taking things I never said or even implied and trying to use that to argue why you disagree with me. That's strawman!

You've done it yet again in this post! Nowhere did I ever say this quote from you:

"If you think that the people buying ST are the younger generation with Litetally NO MONEY, then there is truly no use in continuing this conversation."

I never said this at all! I never implied this! Why are you so grossly misrepresenting what I am saying?

I said the younger generation is far more interested in basketball than football, this is a fact backed up by studies, and I said AS THEY AGE INTO WORKING they will replace the older generation.

The only circular thing in this is you misrepresenting what I'm saying and then using that as some justification to argue about things I'm not even trying to argue about. I don't understand how you could take me asking for simple clarification as some reason to go on a rant about why you disagree with my opinion.

You stated "interest of younger generation" I responded by stating they Literally have no money.
I never said they would replace anybody--STRAWMAN
Im not arguing .
I asked you twice if we can agree to disagree.
I dont agree with your synopisis. Nothing more, nothing less.
If I cant respond to a statement that you made, without it being a strawman? WHEW.

Ive given you every reason why I disagree with your analogy. Im not sure what else to say.
I give you answers regarding questions you have & then say I am misrepresenting.
You say young- I say No Money. I see an answer, not a misrepresentation. I mean, if you are stating, it must be assumed that you think that they are gonna be a significant season ticket buyer. right?
If I am NOT understanding what point you are trying to prove, then I apologize. But, Ive given every answer as to why I dont agree with your analogy. Im not quite sure what answer you are looking for & quite frankly, why, at this point is it so dam important?
I dont agree with your POV. Its truly not a big deal. Thus the pleas of agreeing to diagree on multiple occasions.

[kinglio21093]

Morant has a ton of potential. I still like Zion over him if we get the number one pick, but whoever has the number 2 pick will have some real fuel for a trade too.

Plot twist: We get the 2nd pick in the lottery, and then trade AD for the #1 pick. Pels get BOTH Zion and Ja.

[Mythrol]

If I am NOT understanding what point you are trying to prove, then I apologize. But, Ive given every answer as to why I dont agree with your analogy. Im not quite sure what answer you are looking for & quite frankly, why, at this point is it so dam important?
I dont agree with your POV. Its truly not a big deal. Thus the pleas of agreeing to diagree on multiple occasions.

Let's just leave it at that as it's not worth trying to explain anymore.

[Pelicanidae]

Plot twist: We get the 2nd pick in the lottery, and then trade AD for the #1 pick. Pels get BOTH Zion and Ja.

The good kind of plot twist, that. I'd appreciate it. Assuming that it would be NYK that give us the #1 pick for AD, we'd be looking at a potential lineup a little like this:

PG: Ja Morant + Payton or DSJ
SG: Jrue Holiday/Frank Jackson
SF: Darius Miller/Dairis Bertans/Solomon Hill (still no good Small forward for us?)
PF: Zion Williamson/Julius Randle
C: Jahlil Okafor/Mitchell Robinson/Cheick Diallo

I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty okay going into next season like that.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Let's just leave it at that as it's not worth trying to explain anymore.

Every Mythoo convo goes the same way

Other Poster: Here is what I think
Mythol: Creates Strawman
Other Poster: That's not what I am saying, I am saying...
Mythol: Continues to push Strawman
Other: No, I am saying this! You are misrepresenting my words!
Mythol: let's just end this and agree to disagree

Classic Mythol

[Pelicanidae]

Every Mythoo convo goes the same way

Other Poster: Here is what I think
Mythol: Creates Strawman
Other Poster: That's not what I am saying, I am saying...
Mythol: Continues to push Strawman
Other: No, I am saying this! You are misrepresenting my words!
Mythol: let's just end this and agree to disagree

Classic Mythol

I'm impressed that you spelled Mythrol two different ways in your post, and neither of them were correct.

[Bee-Fense]

I'm impressed that you spelled Mythrol two different ways in your post, and neither of them were correct.

Let's just end this and agree to disagree.

[Mythrol]

Every Mythoo convo goes the same way

Other Poster: Here is what I think
Mythol: Creates Strawman
Other Poster: That's not what I am saying, I am saying...
Mythol: Continues to push Strawman
Other: No, I am saying this! You are misrepresenting my words!
Mythol: let's just end this and agree to disagree

Classic Mythol

Huh. I could have sworn MM said he was really leaving this time for like the 8th or 9th time...

[UNO Gracias]

A DVD of Cool Runnings.

[SmontySwilliams]

I had season tickets in my late 20's. Moved away or I'd still have them. I lived in a tiny apt in mid city when I bought them and lived paycheck to paycheck. Not the wisest financial move, but I was young had an okay job and just loved being at the game yelling at refs in person. Spending more resources to attract more young people is a better investment just due to the longevity of potential renewals and fandom. Plus they have less baggage than us older fans from the Hornets era.

[Tinman]

I had season tickets in my late 20's. Moved away or I'd still have them. I lived in a tiny apt in mid city when I bought them and lived paycheck to paycheck. Not the wisest financial move, but I was young had an okay job and just loved being at the game yelling at refs in person. Spending more resources to attract more young people is a better investment just due to the longevity of potential renewals and fandom. Plus they have less baggage than us older fans from the Hornets era.

You can try to attract young people all you want- that's NoT where the money is. They have no money. The idea is to attract middle aged parents with young children that are raising their children correctly.
This is a BRAT era. Through their early 20's, kids these days think they are Owed everything for doing nothing. They have no money.

[SmontySwilliams]

You can try to attract young people all you want- that's NoT where the money is. They have no money. The idea is to attract middle aged parents with young children that are raising their children correctly.
This is a BRAT era. Through their early 20's, kids these days think they are Owed everything for doing nothing. They have no money.

I wholeheartedly disagree, from personal experience, being in my 20's, buying full season tickets, and working hard for every dime. The city is young and getting younger. Banking on Metairie, Kenner, and the north shore has gotten them this far. Desperate for more.

Middle aged parents don't have the time to go to 2-3 games a week for months, don't have the income because of paying for private school in Louisiana. I sat next to either retired season ticket holders, people my age, parents and their adult children, or middle aged people without kids.

Young disposable income and disposable time is where it's at. Defining their early adulthood by their fandom gives promise to being lifelong ticket holders. Building the culture starts with the young money.

[Tinman]

I wholeheartedly disagree, from personal experience, being in my 20's, buying full season tickets, and working hard for every dime. The city is young and getting younger. Banking on Metairie, Kenner, and the north shore has gotten them this far. Desperate for more.

Middle aged parents don't have the time to go to 2-3 games a week for months, don't have the income because of paying for private school in Louisiana. I sat next to either retired season ticket holders, people my age, parents and their adult children, or middle aged people without kids.

Young disposable income and disposable time is where it's at. Defining their early adulthood by their fandom gives promise to being lifelong ticket holders. Building the culture starts with the young money.

A primary target for an STH is NOT 25 & under.
1) I certainly dont know many 25 & unders that have this disposable income you speak of.
2) The target is multiples, not singles. 25 & under certainly arent buying more than 1 season ticket. Families buy more than 1
3) Most 25 & under have busy schedules & would be more apt to buy a ticket to a single game, at their convenience, not season tickets.
4) The city (or metro area) being young and getting younger is incorrect. But, if that were the case, then it would mean doom for the NBA in N.O.
5) As I said earlier- Old Money is absolute money. New Money must still be located. Most 25 & unders that do have jobs are more than likely on swing or night schedules at some point in time which means it would make no sense for them to pay for an entire season. Entirely too many variables in a young persons life for them to LOGICALLY commit to paying for 41 games, unless they are going to go to 41 games.

So, a parent paying for a private school cant afford Season Tickets, but a 23 yr old can? Do you realize how silly that sounds?

[SmontySwilliams]

A primary target for an STH is NOT 25 & under.
1) I certainly dont know many 25 & unders that have this disposable income you speak of.
2) The target is multiples, not singles. 25 & under certainly arent buying more than 1 season ticket. Families buy more than 1
3) Most 25 & under have busy schedules & would be more apt to buy a ticket to a single game, at their convenience, not season tickets.
4) The city (or metro area) being young and getting younger is incorrect. But, if that were the case, then it would mean doom for the NBA in N.O.
5) As I said earlier- Old Money is absolute money. New Money must still be located. Most 25 & unders that do have jobs are more than likely on swing or night schedules at some point in time which means it would make no sense for them to pay for an entire season. Entirely too many variables in a young persons life for them to LOGICALLY commit to paying for 41 games, unless they are going to go to 41 games.

So, a parent paying for a private school cant afford Season Tickets, but a 23 yr old can? Do you realize how silly that sounds?

The only thing that sounds silly is an absolutist mentality that no one in their 20's can afford season tickets.

I never said singles. I had 2 seats. Chris Trew is the only weirdo to buy a single seat I know of.

Youth is literally the future of the franchise. I find your opinion a typical get off my lawn, kids these days ignorance to the economical and cultural significance of the largest generation coming of age.

I am a living exception to your argument, and know many others. 15 friends and I had Saints season tickets at 22. I'm not saying every marketing dollar needs to be spent on people in their 20's, just that it is a hugely underdeveloped (and apparently underestimated) market for the Pelicans future.

[Bee-Fense]

I'm a season ticket holder and I'm 24 years old

It's really not that expensive, especially if you sell your tickets to the Lakers game and maybe a couple of others. People just need to be invested in the team enough.

[Tinman]

The only thing that sounds silly is an absolutist mentality that no one in their 20's can afford season tickets.

I never said singles. I had 2 seats. Chris Trew is the only weirdo to buy a single seat I know of.

Youth is literally the future of the franchise. I find your opinion a typical get off my lawn, kids these days ignorance to the economical and cultural significance of the largest generation coming of age.

I am a living exception to your argument, and know many others. 15 friends and I had Saints season tickets at 22. I'm not saying every marketing dollar needs to be spent on people in their 20's, just that it is a hugely underdeveloped (and apparently underestimated) market for the Pelicans future.

Yeah, I can see this is going nowhere. You either didn't listen & purposefully fibbed. I never said "Nobody in their 20's can afford season tickets". Typical.

[Tinman]

The only thing that sounds silly is an absolutist mentality that no one in their 20's can afford season tickets.

I never said singles. I had 2 seats. Chris Trew is the only weirdo to buy a single seat I know of.

Youth is literally the future of the franchise. I find your opinion a typical get off my lawn, kids these days ignorance to the economical and cultural significance of the largest generation coming of age.

I am a living exception to your argument, and know many others. 15 friends and I had Saints season tickets at 22. I'm not saying every marketing dollar needs to be spent on people in their 20's, just that it is a hugely underdeveloped (and apparently underestimated) market for the Pelicans future.

Well, you just admitted you are an exception. Freudian Slip ?
BTW- the 1500 or so kids 13 & under at the games, aren't there with their 22 yr old dad.

You target 20 somethings & I will target middle aged families, retirees & corporations. We'll see who created more sales.

[Captaustin]

If we plan on keeping Randall (seems so) we may as well keep Elfrid around as well. Of course, a lot of this depends on the draft and which trade we end up taking for Anthony. If we bring in Tatum, we will have every position filled including center as Jah is still under contract next year. Tatum seems like the convenient quick rebuild option. If we shoot for the stars and go for a package including Zion, we may end up with the hole at small forward per usual. I’m just excited. I shouldn’t be because our franchise is very stupid, but I am.

What about Kenrich? hey has been great defensively and has been a solid scorer!

[Pelicanidae]

What about Kenrich? hey has been great defensively and has been a solid scorer!

Kenrich isn't really that interesting to me for his scoring, although he has shown signs of having a real long distance shot. Instead, his IQ is what's most impressive to me. He has really good instinct, and he plays like a smart vet instead of a rookie. Real "Tony Allen" vibes.