Elfrid may be pricing himself out of our range.
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Elfrid may be pricing himself out of our range.
Sure, but you've also got to think about what other offers he's gonna get. As well as he's played at times for us this season, this is going to be his second consecutive season playing less than 50 games. His third season in a row playing less than 65 games. Combine that injury history with his reputation for poor defense, mediocre shooting, and a complete lack of winning in his career, nobody is going to offer him big cash.Originally Posted by kinglio21093
The largest offer I could see him getting is for something like $9 or $10m per. Now, I don't know about you, but if I'm offered $9m per, but I have to move yet again and go play elsewhere, I'd probably take the $7m per offer from my hometown team and just stay instead. Especially if that team were willing to give me more years.
Basketball.
I'm sure he does want more than 6m. But with the state of our team I'm not inclined to give him a big contract. We don't know what this team will look like. I also caution that Gentry's system has a habit of making PGs look better than they actually are.
If we plan on keeping Randall (seems so) we may as well keep Elfrid around as well. Of course, a lot of this depends on the draft and which trade we end up taking for Anthony. If we bring in Tatum, we will have every position filled including center as Jah is still under contract next year. Tatum seems like the convenient quick rebuild option. If we shoot for the stars and go for a package including Zion, we may end up with the hole at small forward per usual. I’m just excited. I shouldn’t be because our franchise is very stupid, but I am.
Right now there is stat inflation through the roof. We have averaged 50 boards a night over our last six games, which is up from the 47.3 we've averaged all season long, and that was second in the league in the first place. We've averaged 92.1 FGAs per game this season, which is the most in the league. Over the last 10 games, that number has been 98.1. That's so many shots that it's almost beyond belief. I haven't checked throughout the entirety of NBA history, but that number would be 6 FGAs per game more than the second most prolific shot-taking team since 2000.
There is no way to judge our players properly based off these numbers. Elfrid will not put up 12 assists per game with Jrue on the floor: there's just no reason to think that's realistic. Over the last 10 games, Randle has been taking 21 shots a game. There is just no way that will ever happen in a normal season: that's approaching James Harden numbers (averaged 20 FGAs per game last season, averaging a ridiculous 24 FGAs per game this year). It won't happen unless Randle breaks out into the most prolific big man scorer since Wilt.
That's how divorced from reality watching this team is right now. Even if the same players are back next year, unless we go into a year of full tanking we will look nothing like this. We cannot afford to give out big contracts, especially long term contracts, to players based on what we are currently watching. We have to try and think long term, be reasonable, and look at things in perspective. I have no question in my mind that Elfrid wants $20m a year, every player wants a big contract. But we can't fool ourselves into overpaying as we approach a rebuild. The only thing that would be good for is crippling the team's future.
edit: I know you weren't disagreeing there, I just thought your comment was a good jumping off point for mine. No argument with what you wrote at all.
That's a compelling argument but couldn't the same be said about Harden and his MVP's? The system matters. Fitting in the system matters also. I don't' think $20m over 3 years with the third year being a team option is unreasonable and I don't know if his market will be much greater than that. If we won't pay him top money bc his stats are graded on a curve with the system, neither will anyone else.
That's why you wait until the new staff is in place. Because the new system might not fit Payton at all.
Not really. There is an extent to which Hardens results are contingent upon the system, sure, everyone knows that D'Antoni has a system that supercharges guards. Always has. But the difference is that they've been that system works: just as Harden benefits from D'Antoni, D'Antoni's system only works because he has the personnel like Harden to run it in a way that produces wins.
We don't have a system. What we have now is not a system. Gentry is not driving this team: he's just put a brick on the accelerator. And even if Gentry DID have a system, he won't be our coach next season, and so his system wouldn't matter.
I wouldn't mind giving Payton close to $20m over three years. In the op, I suggested 3yrs/$18m or so.
My point isn't that we should just reject Payton or Randle because of the ridiculous dysfunctional nonsense of these games. My point is that we should take this nonsense into consideration when we think about the offers we want to be making, especially long term.
Has Payton really increased his value that much this year? I'm not so sure. He's slightly better from 3pt and ft% but his fg%, ts%, ast%, all of his WS stats, VORP they've all decreased this year. This while also being injured and only playing in 33 games so far this season.
I dunno. He seems like a guy I wouldn't go out of my way to offer a long term or big deal too. Just because he was here this year doesn't mean much.
We resign him! If we don’t make a trade for someone like Beal or another stud back court mate for Jrue then he starts next to Jrue with Frank Jackson the first guard off the bench. Payton is only going to keep getting better as he’s still yet to enter the prime of his career. Losing him would be a big loss if we plan on competing. My ideal back court next season is Jrue/Beal as my starting duo and Elfrid/Frank to lead the bench. All of these guards can play in lineups with each other giving us a great and versatile back court. Not a starting guard and bench duo in the NBA that I would rather have over that one. This is a group that can help you to a championship. As long as we hit on some of those assets and just 1 pick in the AD trade we will be a serious contender very soon. With this team we would be peaking while most of the best teams now would be on the decline. We can make a huge turn around like many others have.
This lineup imo can take it to the next level immediately just with that back court. Fill in the rest how you want with Tatum/Ingram or Brown/Kuzma who I am leaving out as part of Beal trade but either way you look at it with trades it looks good. Just something I love about this team Lakers or Celtics package. I really think this core staying together while continuing to build through the draft with just 1 or 2 solid additions in the mid to later 1st will continue to propel this team forward. We are on the cusp of creating something special that can win an NBA championship.
Jrue/Elfrid
Beal/Frank/Hart-Smart
Ingram-Tatum/Keinrich/Miller
Randle/Diallo
BolBol/Okafor
Last edited by GuardianAngel25; 03-21-2019 at 01:37 AM.
I guess this is why the draft is before free agency. Because if they get a point guard in the first round, they might not have to worry about keeping a starting point guard.
I honestly still have no idea why you think we're getting Beal.
That's the thing. I think most people look at Payton as a backup with potential. That's nice and all but he shouldn't be the focus of our team right now. Nor do I think we should be trying to rush a rebuild that leaves us in the exact same situation.
Focus on the GM, focus on the coaching staff, focus on the AD trade and what we get back from that, then we can focus on rounding out the roster with backups.
I actually agree with not rushing the rebuild, but knowing this franchise, they will want to put a product on the floor quickly. They REALLY focus on the business aspect of it rather than the potential of winning a championship. It’s why I see Randall getting an inflated deal and Elfrid being re-signed.
idk I think they'll go the try and be competitive but also rebuild like soft rebuild
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Does rebuilding have to include an 18-64 type season in it? Over the Payton era, the Saints have rebuilt a couple of times, and yet they've never been worse than 7-9. Same with Spurs. Can't we rebuild and still have a 32-50 season as the low end?
I mean football is a totally different game than basketball. It's unrealistic to set expectations of what a rebuild actually is based on another sport entirely. Also why should it matter if we win 15 games or 30 games? It's not like winning 30 gets us close to the playoffs. Only winning 15 gets us much higher odds of getting a high draft pick. In the NBA that's far more important than the NFL.
The Spurs have multiple titles, one of the best coaches in the NBA ever, and are still in a 3 way tie for the 6,7, and 8th seed. It's not like they are lighting the world on fire. Are the current Spurs who we should be trying to build our team like? The Spurs team that won titles came from having an extremely bad season which resulted in a high pick, then getting extremely lucky multiple times with late picks.
Last edited by Mythrol; 03-21-2019 at 01:21 PM.
Spurs had Tim Duncan for basically 20 years, Ginobili and Parker for 15 years, then they acquired Aldridge and just as Duncan was declining, they made the Kawhi trade. Then, just as Kawhi was on his way out, they managed to spin it into DeRozan. So they've pretty much had at least 2 hall of famers on the roster at all times for the last 20 years, and at the same time, the greatest coach to ever step foot on an NBA floor. So, sure, why can't we just do the Spurs thing? That's why.
Just my personal view, and I understand that some other people would disagree, but I'd rather be absolutely garbage for 2 seasons, garner draft picks, and set ourselves up for 8-10 years of success, than try hard to tread water and instead just end up being a 7-10th seed every season, never getting past the first round of the playoffs, but always winning about 40 meaningless games.
Your POV is the POV of someone that doesn't spend 8 grand a year on season Tickets. Not saying your POV is wrong for you, but it's certainly expensive for me.
I think there are certain scenarios where we might not have a long rebuild depending who we get back for AD, but we just went through what happens when you rush rebuilds and I couldn't imagine why any fan would want to win 30 games and miss the playoffs just to win a few extra games.
The rationale of an everyday fan (while we see rebuild)- they see- this team sucks & they are getting worse each year. I'm not paying to watch this garbage.
90% of fans pay to see their team win & have ZERO clue, regarding a (rebuild).
The fanbase of 12 thousand or so could be so decimated by the end of a 2-3 year rebuild.
I see no reason why this team can't compete immediately if the correct brass is put in place.
Don't blame anyone else if their point of view is different. Everyone has their own perspective, and I can only contribute mine.
That's where good ownership realizes what's best for the long term health of the franchise and doesn't reach for short-term selling a few more tickets if it harms long term games. It's not like selling an extra few thousand tickets a game for 2 years is going to break Mrs Benson financially. Nor do I even think she would lose money in those 2 seasons.
But what will lose fans long term isn't two bad seasons if there's hope at the end of it. What loses fans long term is horrible game day experiences and being stuck in purgatory without the cap space or picks to do anything about it. Until we actually have that franchise player we shouldn't be rushing anything.
Depends on what we get back from the AD trade. For example if we get Tatum, Smart, plus picks I could see us fielding a competitive team that's fun to watch but also has future hope due to Tatum and picks.
But I'm not rushing to compete just for the sake of willing a few more games.
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