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The Clippers will tank. They are currently working to trade Williams and Jordan as we speak. They have no interest in winning basketball for the rest of this season or making the playoffs. That just hurts their pick. Any discussion of what we could have gotten should be from the 15 spot and up, out of the lottery.Originally Posted by Pelifan
Or he could stay here since we have his rights. Or he could be part of another trade to get us a star.
You call my opinion ignorant because it's speaking to the unknown then you turn around and make sweeping statements about the impact that Mirotic could have on our contention moving forward which is completely unknown to us.
There is a world where Mirotic ends up being worth more than whoever we would have picked at that spot and we got him as well as dumped Asik's contract for less than the value of the 1st anyway because we got a 2nd back.
This insistence that building through the draft is the best way for a small market is based on nothing but more of the unknown that you claim I speak to. 1 small market team has built through the draft and won it (SA). 1 small market team drafted a superstar then traded their way to a championship (Dallas). There's no overwhelming evidence that drafting is the best way.
All methods are based around making smart moves when possible, and being extremely extremely lucky. We are in a better, more flexible position as a team Moving forward than we were 48 hours ago.
I'm nowhere near saying this trade was as bad as that one. In comparison this trade is miles better. But first round picks are aslo held in much higher regard now.
The point is most people really liked the trade. And it turned out to be a mistake because Asik was not worth retaining. For Mirotic I don't even think it's possible to retain him if he plays at or above the expectations of a guy you trade a first for. He'll be too expensive to afford with the Holiday, Davis, Cousins core. And Utah and LAC have had a very difficult time recieving the value they want for Favors and DAJ and we will be in a similar situation with Mirotic next year around this time.
I would have held out for a better trade or take the 30-50% chance we find a really good rotation player with that first round draft pick... at least if I had any faith in Demps to scout. A minor Ajinca move was called for imo.
Last edited by Pelifan; 02-02-2018 at 02:29 PM.
A fully protected pick makes it even better. If we go to the playoffs than we get some playoff experience and helps Boogie resign. If we don’t make it to the playoffs than we get a lottery player.
There's two points to make regarding the draft and I don't think anyone is saying that there's no other way.
1. The cost of an NBA draft pick is incredibly cheap. For example: the 4th pick in the draft should perform on average as well as who? Whoever that player is, the draft pick is likely way cheaper. Yes, the vet and the rookie have different chances of busting, but you can make a mistake with a rookie and it won't strangle your money and future options. Draft picks are also so cheap that it leaves you room for other FAs. So no one, I don't think, is discounting trades and FA. It's just that draft picks are noticeably cheap.
2. The draft is where you're on even ground with everyone. Whether you're drafting 5th or the Rockets are drafting, it's completely up to scouting. There is no distinct advantage by virtue of being a bigger organization or market. In FA, if the Pelicans and Rockets have the same price tag on a player, most times that player will be a Rocket. Therefore, there is a disadvantage built-in vs bigger name teams and markets. Not always of course, but many times. This doesn't come up in drafts.
As you pointed out, all methods are based around making smart moves. But the following is I think important given the conversation: are draft picks paid correctly? By that I mean, has the NBA correctly assigned salary to draft picks at each slot.
Where has anybody said anything differently? The only point of contention is probability. Draft picks allow for more flexibility therefore allow for more mistakes. Draft picks have similar if not greater reward as young vets with significantly less risk. That to me seems like the obvious choice in our cases where the franchise has struggled mightly to recruit top end FA's.
I think this is the core of our issue. We disagree on this fundamental point. Mid to late 1st round picks based off of statistics do not possess greater reward with less significantly less risk. That's the entire point I'm making, the draft is a crap shot especially outside of the lottery.
Young vets are a MUCH safer bet.
Thats even worse then. The goal is to win games. Not constantly flip/cut 20 - 22 year old players until your broken clock is finally right.
Where do you get your numbers? Most teams that win do it via all avenues. Not just the draft.
Contributor
Terrence Jones is back. Between the two, the pump fakeage will dominate the universe.
Honestly, Jones' pump fake is so slow I swear it goes backwards.
Basketball.
Contributor
He's not pump faking in actuality. HE's moving the universe down relative to the ball's location.
Awesome! I wish he had never left. He was pretty good off the bench for us.
you are one creative mf'er, E
Contributor
Terrence Jones is finalizing a 10-day deal with the Pelicans.
Since being waived by the Bucks, Jones had a short stint in China and then made his way to the G-League where he's been lighting it up. The Pelicans missed out on the Greg Monroe sweepstakes, but they were able to bring in Nikola Mirotic. Jones can play the four and five and could potentially carve out a nice role up front, but we'll have to see how the Pelicans use him before recommending him as an add. Coach Alvin Gentry thinks Dante Cunningham is a Hall-of-Famer, but Jones is the better player and is worth keeping an eye on.
per Rotoworld
✔
@ShamsCharania
The New Orleans Pelicans are finalizing a 10-day contract with forward Terrence Jones, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
Last edited by redrum; 02-02-2018 at 07:05 PM.
It's that the Hornets unashamedly quit so quickly in Game 4 after fans in New Orleans showed up this season with greater regularity than the team could have ever dreamed, shaming misinformed know-it-alls like me who kept telling you that local residents couldn't possibly invest their time and money into something as trivial as rooting for the local basketball team while still recovering from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. - Mark Stien ESPN
Did something bad happen between the Pels and Terrence Jones when he got released? Kushner and Oleh Kosel were saying that there was possibly bad blood between the two parties but I don’t remember that.
I hope not, cause I liked him. He played decent defense, hustled hard, and was an effective offensive weapon.
Yeah! I wouldn’t mind having him as the backup big next season for the minimum.
Lol
I know Jones demanded to be released whenever Cousins was traded for so we did just that.
Maybe there was some hard feelings by how he left but nothing specific was mentioned that I remember.
Whatever it was, they are clearly over it because winning is all that matters.
Aaaand, No T-Jones afterall....Sources: New Orleans has changed course on deal with Jones and won’t complete it, and will leave roster spots open for now. https://t.co/81qH9kcGLB
— Shams Charania (@ShamsCharania) February 3, 2018
Ooookay then
Alright...
Well let's see where this goes.
Orlando perpetually builds through the draft and they are essentially in the same spot they were 5 years ago
I think something people are missing when they talk about, say, San Antonio "building through the draft" is that they had spent 10 years sitting on David Robinson and achieving basically nothing until Tim Duncan fell into their laps. It was only then, when they had a top ten C of all time + arguably the greatest PF of all time that they made waves: and Duncan wasn't your typical rookie. He'd stayed in college all four years, he was NBA ready.
As for Parker and Ginobili, that's so unlikely that even the Spurs haven't been able to repeat their success drafting that low again, in over another decade.
The Spurs are a terrible example to try and follow because they essentially lucked into it at first.
Contributor
Jones will have to break the laws of physics on some other team.
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