Should we keep Jrue on the team next season?

[da ThRONe]

You guys are throwing Philly as a risky team for Jrue.

From one hand I agree - they have space.

But they have Simmons - who is going to take ballhandling duties.
And all of their future will be decided at the draft.
If they will get a Lakers pick - they will get two top 5 picks (maybe even top 4). So they will take for sure a PG for the future. With one pick (4-5th) they may take Tatum/Jackson/Monk
Jrue won't go to such a franchise. Even for the max.

So with Jrue-Philly connection - I will wait till the draft lottery and draft itself...

I'm worried about Philly creating cap space for other teams that may want to out bid us for Holiday not necessarily them throwing a contract at Holiday themselves. For example they may take Joakim Noah from the Knicks if Phil Jackson is desperate enough to attach future picks to a trade. Since the 6ers are below the cap they can make trades without taking salary back. And a Noah type deal puts them right at the salary floor and gives them veteran leadership. This is why when people are critical of our cap situation I tell them space can always be create for the right price.

[pawel]

I understand Your point of view, but looks like Philly will stop taking future draft picks.

They have Okafor, Embiid, Simmons, their own 2017th pick and eventually Lakers pick...
it is time for them to strike
maybe on Holiday. But it will depend on their draft. if they will draft a PG - Jrue might not be interested

Just heard recent Locked on Pelicans

Jrue max is 5 year 176 millions. starting at 30,3, finishing at almost 40 millions...

other teams can offer 4 - 130 millions

[da ThRONe]

I understand Your point of view, but looks like Philly will stop taking future draft picks.

They have Okafor, Embiid, Simmons, their own 2017th pick and eventually Lakers pick...
it is time for them to strike
maybe on Holiday. But it will depend on their draft. if they will draft a PG - Jrue might not be interested

Just heard recent Locked on Pelicans

Jrue max is 5 year 176 millions. starting at 30,3, finishing at almost 40 millions...

other teams can offer 4 - 130 millions

I'd agree it appears that the Sixers want to start winning sooner rather than later. However assets are assets and the more they have the better off they'll be. Especially when you consider it would cost them nothing but the abundance of cap space. Besides a guy like Noah or Deng ex. would be good for a young team like the Sixers.

[hornetsrebirth]

First off we cant win games with a healthly Jrue Holiday now against teams that we need to be competative against in this league to compete.
So to make a statement of a healthly JH is BS.
Guys he doesnt have the Skill Set Period. Even when he was healthy he was sub par against the upper players when matched up.

If this were remotely true, we wouldn't need to be talking about Holiday getting the max

[da ThRONe]

If this were remotely true, we wouldn't need to be talking about Holiday getting the max

Not that I agree with the Holiday bashing, but this isn't necessarily true. Just last off season Barnes got a max and there were far more questions about his game than Holiday's.

[NMThreeMVP]

If this were remotely true, we wouldn't need to be talking about Holiday getting the max

We're talking about Jrue getting the max because we've seen our GM do this dance twice already, twice overpay, and twice regret it. It has nothing to do with a talent evaluation or how he fits on this team.

Let's try this exercise:

If we were building a team around Davis/Cousins, assuming Hill and Moore are locked in rotation players, with Crawford and Dialo off the bench, would Jrue Holiday be the player we all hoped the Pels offered $25m a year to? Would we look at the market and find an injury prone combo guard that comes up small in big moments, turns the ball over too much if he's the primary ball handler, doesn't look for his own shot often enough, struggles defensively against elite PGs, doesn't consistently guard SGs, and can't defend SFs?

Or would we find an affordable and efficient option to play PG, sign a spot up shooter to rotate with Moore and Crawford, and bide our time as a playoff team until the opportunity comes to add one more truly elite player that pushes us to a championship?

Health and competency should get a team with two top 15 players into the playoffs. Overpaying Jrue is unnecessary and likely detrimental to the cause of ever being anything more than a middle of the pack playoff team.

[hornetsrebirth]

We're talking about Jrue getting the max because we've seen our GM do this dance twice already, twice overpay, and twice regret it. It has nothing to do with a talent evaluation or how he fits on this team.

Let's try this exercise:

If we were building a team around Davis/Cousins, assuming Hill and Moore are locked in rotation players, with Crawford and Dialo off the bench, would Jrue Holiday be the player we all hoped the Pels offered $25m a year to? Would we look at the market and find an injury prone combo guard that comes up small in big moments, turns the ball over too much if he's the primary ball handler, doesn't look for his own shot often enough, struggles defensively against elite PGs, doesn't consistently guard SGs, and can't defend SFs?

Or would we find an affordable and efficient option to play PG, sign a spot up shooter to rotate with Moore and Crawford, and bide our time as a playoff team until the opportunity comes to add one more truly elite player that pushes us to a championship?

Health and competency should get a team with two top 15 players into the playoffs. Overpaying Jrue is unnecessary and likely detrimental to the cause of ever being anything more than a middle of the pack playoff team.

I'll try that exercise. The options are to let the 3rd best player on the team walk away and get nothing in return, or resign him at his market value.

For the first option you are basically admitting that you won't be able to replace him with an equal or better player next season. So the Pelicans will get worse next season. This strategy is based on the blind hope that maybe 2 or 3 years down the road, a better player will want to come to New Orleans.

Second option is to resign Holiday at market value. This will not prevent the Pelicans from also signing a spot up shooter. And if a better player becomes available 2 or 3 years down the road, trade Holiday and acquire said player.

Yeah, I'll go with option #2 on this.

[Darkhorse985]

I'll try that exercise. The options are to let the 3rd best player on the team walk away and get nothing in return, or resign him at his market value.

For the first option you are basically admitting that you won't be able to replace him with an equal or better player next season. So the Pelicans will get worse next season. This strategy is based on the blind hope that maybe 2 or 3 years down the road, a better player will want to come to New Orleans.

Second option is to resign Holiday at market value. This will not prevent the Pelicans from also signing a spot up shooter. And if a better player becomes available 2 or 3 years down the road, trade Holiday and acquire said player.

Yeah, I'll go with option #2 on this.

How many teams will line up for an average late 20s injury-prone, overpaid combo guard who "comes up small in big moments" on a $20-25 million dollar a year contract?
That contract will be more difficult to trade than Asik's. Why can't people see that this will be a terrible contract?

[hornetsrebirth]

How many teams will line up for an average late 20s injury-prone, overpaid combo guard who "comes up small in big moments" on a $20-25 million dollar a year contract?
That contract will be more difficult to trade than Asik's. Why can't people see that this will be a terrible contract?

I can't keep up with these arguments. First yall are saying other teams are going to be offering Jrue the max this offseason, then you say nobody will want Jrue for that kind of money. Which is it?

[NMThreeMVP]

I'll try that exercise. The options are to let the 3rd best player on the team walk away and get nothing in return, or resign him at his market value.

For the first option you are basically admitting that you won't be able to replace him with an equal or better player next season. So the Pelicans will get worse next season. This strategy is based on the blind hope that maybe 2 or 3 years down the road, a better player will want to come to New Orleans.

Second option is to resign Holiday at market value. This will not prevent the Pelicans from also signing a spot up shooter. And if a better player becomes available 2 or 3 years down the road, trade Holiday and acquire said player.

Yeah, I'll go with option #2 on this.

Which of the really good teams, that the Pelicans should be trying to emulate, pay their 3rd best (non all-star) player $25m-max???

[NMThreeMVP]

I can't keep up with these arguments. First yall are saying other teams are going to be offering Jrue the max this offseason, then you say nobody will want Jrue for that kind of money. Which is it?

Some idiots will pay Jrue that money. It shouldn't be us.

sheesh... keep up!

[hornetsrebirth]

Some idiots will pay Jrue that money. It shouldn't be us.

sheesh... keep up!

So if you think other teams are willing to pay Jrue that much money, then how can you say no teams would be interested in him after he signs the contract? Do you not see the obvious contradiction here?

[NMThreeMVP]

The Pelicans need to stagger their 3rd max so that it comes when AD/Boogie maxes are a smaller % of cap. Wait until the cap makes another jump, then add your max unless an All NBA max worthy player becomes available. The Pelicans should want to be in a position to trade current players plus future picks for a true max guy if that guy is in the last year of his deal is giving signals that he won't resign. A guy like John Wall or Lillard. That's when you trade future picks and match salaries, then exceed the cap if necessary to give them their max. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Next year this team will make playoffs with Boogie, AD, and a competent scooby gang. Paying Jrue is like committing to a Pirelli spare on a Ferrari. The car will still drive. It will still be a Ferrari. But it's dumb.

[hornetsrebirth]

The Pelicans need to stagger their 3rd max so that it comes when AD/Boogie maxes are a smaller % of cap. Wait until the cap makes another jump, then add your max unless an All NBA max worthy player becomes available. The Pelicans should want to be in a position to trade current players plus future picks for a true max guy if that guy is in the last year of his deal is giving signals that he won't resign. A guy like John Wall or Lillard. That's when you trade future picks and match salaries, then exceed the cap if necessary to give them their max. Lots of ways to skin a cat.

Next year this team will make playoffs with Boogie, AD, and a competent scooby gang. Paying Jrue is like committing to a Pirelli spare on a Ferrari. The car will still drive. It will still be a Ferrari. But it's dumb.

I'm sure you are aware how hypothetical and flimsy this scenario is. I mean we have zero evidence that Lillard or Wall wants to come to New Orleans. Those guys have the opportunity to sign anywhere, they can get more money by staying with their team, or they can go to a big market team, or to a team like the Spurs thats already contending for a championship. Having the space to sign an all NBA max player doesn't mean they will actually come here. We could end up with a guy like Harrison Barnes being the best available for the max contract. Furthermore, if there is demand around the league for Jrue (which you have implied by saying some "idiots" will pay him good money) then that means the contract will be movable if necessary.

[Darkhorse985]

So if you think other teams are willing to pay Jrue that much money, then how can you say no teams would be interested in him after he signs the contract? Do you not see the obvious contradiction here?

How many teams lined up to take Eric Gordon's contract? How many teams are lining up to take Asik's contract? I am saying Holiday will not live up to his grossly overpaid contract, so it will be very difficult to trade. This signing will be a a big mistake in the long list of mistakes in Demps' career as a GM.

[Darkhorse985]

agree - Suns just want to get rid of Knight.
don't need to give them anything valuable

still doubt that they might want Asik

Asik will be interesting for franchises only after stretching him - for a minimum...


I don't see Pels going after Knight unless they will let Jrue go and will be looking for other options

Save future picks for real players

You have to match salaries. No team in their right mind would take Asik's contract.

[glepurple]

How many teams lined up to take Eric Gordon's contract? How many teams are lining up to take Asik's contract? I am saying Holiday will not live up to his grossly overpaid contract, so it will be very difficult to trade. This signing will be a a big mistake in the long list of mistakes in Demps' career as a GM.

Well Gordon's contract was unmovable because of injury not just cost. I firmly believe if he never got injured he would of been able to be traded...holiday is healthy and his foot problems seem to be behind him, so that's two different scenarios to me. The asik comparison is more appropriate in that sense.

[6warddude]

I'm sure you are aware how hypothetical and flimsy this scenario is. I mean we have zero evidence that Lillard or Wall wants to come to New Orleans. Those guys have the opportunity to sign anywhere, they can get more money by staying with their team, or they can go to a big market team, or to a team like the Spurs thats already contending for a championship. Having the space to sign an all NBA max player doesn't mean they will actually come here. We could end up with a guy like Harrison Barnes being the best available for the max contract. Furthermore, if there is demand around the league for Jrue (which you have implied by saying some "idiots" will pay him good money) then that means the contract will be movable if necessary.

i hear what you are saying about jrue contract and yes if a team wanted him in the past then they may want him if we try to move him but lets also add that its also possible that jrue is not performing up to his contract level or and i hate to use this but what if jrue is hurt a half of season or more in that contract time,,,,,would teams want to touch him then?.............


KD proved that when you want to win then you go against the grain and join the loaded team.........the pelicans are the younger team with the best bigs in the game for awhile to come so its not out of line that a guard or wing would want to come here and be that ex factor to help win the title......there are not many contending teams and every star cant go to those teams so someone has to see that the pelicans are next in line to be that title team....

[tdcreator]

I think everyone agrees that paying Jrue the max would be crazy. I don't think you can have your 3rd best player making a lot more than your 1st and 2nd best player and most definitely more than Davis. Paying Jrue 20-24 Million won't break the bank and should be a tradable asset for at least a few years (barring injuries). I'd rather have Jrue at 22 million than Conley at 30 million. Plus when Wall says he wants out and will do a sign and trade, the pelicans will have to make the money work some how and this is a good trade chip if needed.

I think for a point guard we need an alpha male type but those aren't gonna be cheap. I think Jrue is a little too passive to be the main guy but I do think he can evolve into a feasible option. The only other option to me is to get 2 combo guards with Jrue being one of them.

[Darkhorse985]

Well Gordon's contract was unmovable because of injury not just cost. I firmly believe if he never got injured he would of been able to be traded...holiday is healthy and his foot problems seem to be behind him, so that's two different scenarios to me. The asik comparison is more appropriate in that sense.

Holiday missed significant time in 3 out of his 4 seasons as a Pelican. Now all of a sudden we expect him to be healthy the rest of his career? This is the Eric Gordon situation all over again. Holiday is just not good enough to be worth that risk. Gordon's contract handcuffed this team for 4 seasons.

[da ThRONe]

So if you think other teams are willing to pay Jrue that much money, then how can you say no teams would be interested in him after he signs the contract? Do you not see the obvious contradiction here?

Here's the problem. Sure almost all contracts may be movable however the question is what will it cost to move a terrible contract? If Holiday vastly under performs and/or is consistently injured what is it going to cost us to move his deal if we can move it at all. Teams sign players all the time projecting what a player will do until they underperform. It's done all the time Demps has done it twice now.

[glepurple]

Holiday missed significant time in 3 out of his 4 seasons as a Pelican. Now all of a sudden we expect him to be healthy the rest of his career? This is the Eric Gordon situation all over again. Holiday is just not good enough to be worth that risk. Gordon's contract handcuffed this team for 4 seasons.

Holiday has been healthy for two seasons in a row...he was put in a minutes restriction and sat out back to backs...but was able to play in majority of games until his eye injury. Jrue hasn't had a setback this season outside of his personal issues...not to mention he was healthy his entire time in philly. That's 2 injury riddled seasons out of 8...with majority of his missed time due to the same recurring injury which he has moved past. It's not the same...the only risk with jrue is if he's capable of playing up to the contract.

[NMThreeMVP]

Which of the really good teams, that the Pelicans should be trying to emulate, pay their 3rd best (non all-star) player $25m-max???

Still waiting on answer...

[N.O.Bronco]

Still waiting on answer...

To be fair most winning organizations don't get to this situation, because, well, that is partly what makes them good organizations.

But the Grizzlies would be one. With Mike Conley and Chandler Parsons.

Mike Conley is currently the highest paid player on the team. Tied for the second highest salary this year. Then again I also think Mike Conley would be a dream for this roster so in that situation, taking into account the shifting market for players, I would be ok paying Mike Conley that amount. Jrue not so much. I am just hoping his contract year play, and a sense of loyalty will keep whatever contract he signs here more reasonable.

[da ThRONe]

Holiday has been healthy for two seasons in a row...he was put in a minutes restriction and sat out back to backs...but was able to play in majority of games until his eye injury. Jrue hasn't had a setback this season outside of his personal issues...not to mention he was healthy his entire time in philly. That's 2 injury riddled seasons out of 8...with majority of his missed time due to the same recurring injury which he has moved past. It's not the same...the only risk with jrue is if he's capable of playing up to the contract.

His personal issue is likely what kept him healthy this season(on side note it's why the league should reduce the number of games in the season). If he had to endure an 82 game schedule there's no telling if this year is a "healthy" season.