Should we keep Jrue on the team next season?

[6warddude]

I don't think the market value for Jrue is a max contract. This season wasn't his best, so his stock is not that high right now. Case and point, everybody on this board doubting that Jrue can be a viable 3rd option. Why would teams want to give a max contract to a guy who supposedly isn't good enough to be the 3rd best player on a team? Everyone on here is trashing Jrue's ability like he sucks, if that's true why would other GMs want to pay him a max contract?

Does money talk, or is Jrue wanting to move closer to where his wife gets treatment? You're saying he will go to the team that pays him the most, then you're saying he would potentially take a lower offer to move closer to North Carolina. Which is it? I don't know the particulars of Lauren's recovery so hard to say. We do know the Holiday brothers want to play on the same team, and the Pelicans are in the market for a wing player like Justin.

if the urgency for the brothers to play together is that strong then the 76ers can throw the money at them if they want to unite back in Philly....if it comes down to dollars then thats the team we could loose them to.....

[Rheem654]

If I can get Bledsoe or CP3 I definitely let Jrue walk.

And if they can't get either of those, and the other teams choose to keep their PG's (Rubio, Lin, etc.) or trade them for better offers? Then we're left rolling with Collision or B. Knight, or Frazier being your starting PG, with not much room left to add good players at other positions.

[luckyman]

And if they can't get either of those, and the other teams choose to keep their PG's (Rubio, Lin, etc.) or trade them for better offers? Then we're left rolling with Collision or B. Knight, or Frazier being your starting PG, with not much room left to add good players at other positions.

I'm pretty sure the decision tree doesn't occur like this. It's not a case of "bye Jrue", "now let's pray we can land CP3 or Bledsoe".

[luckyman]

Jrue is not a premier player in this league period.
He is a injury waiting to happen guy.
He is slow as cold maple syrup off the dribble. He is a turn over machine on top of that.

Whats funny is when he was with Philly, he was in that "quicks" commercial with John Wall. Ha! The lane has to be almost empty for him to hit it with any speed.

[da ThRONe]

And that's a fair assessment of the situation. This contract will absolutely be risky. But I think he has a higher floor than Asik or Gordon because when he is playing he is pretty much always a net positive. And he fills a huge need as a perimeter stopper.

I'm gonna be honest in that I believe that everything we do this offseason should revolve around next year. I wish we would have gone a different direction a few seasons ago, but we've painted ourselves into a corner next season in that the next decade of the franchise hinges on Boogie re-signing. We pushed all our chips to the middle of the table with that trade. And I think Jrue helps us get a decent playoff seed more than any reasonable alternative that I can think of.

And if we give Holiday the contract and he's hurt or play is suspect again and we miss the playoffs again. Now we have no cap space to improve other than re-signing Cousins? Why would Boogie return. Now if we go into the season with Frazier for example and we miss the playoffs but we'll have two max (near max)that summer this teams in a much better place to sell Cousins on signing.

[billfromfinance]

Jrue is not a premier player in this league period.
He is a injury waiting to happen guy.
He is slow as cold maple syrup off the dribble. He is a turn over machine on top of that.

Hot Take central. What guard are we signing that is better than Jrue in turnover and assist categories? Could you even present an argument as to why he is a turnover machine. Have you looked at any turnover, turnover ratio, ast:to stats for guards? where does he sit and who sits near him? who sits above him? What guards does everyone think we should get that are better than him in all of these categories?

[6warddude]

Hot Take central. What guard are we signing that is better than Jrue in turnover and assist categories? Could you even present an argument as to why he is a turnover machine. Have you looked at any turnover, turnover ratio, ast:to stats for guards? where does he sit and who sits near him? who sits above him? What guards does everyone think we should get that are better than him in all of these categories?

i dont worry about the turnovers with jrue because some are not his fault and to me he is not bad at that.......if jeff teague would agree to sign here,,i would take him over jrue...defense is effort so i dont know how teague would be in this system but offensively teague can give you the same scoring or more.....teague gets to the FT line way more than jrue...may give you more assist than jrue.....

Ill take jrue and teague in the back court together if the dollars work......

[tdcreator]

I'm ok with Jrue for around 20 million maybe a little more. Anything more than that I'm hoping we can sign and trade him somewhere. Ideally Wall forces his way out of Washington and says he only wants to play for pelicans. Jrue can then be sign and moved there. Bledsoe or knight would be my next targets. Bledsoe would be awesome next to Jrue. Knight would be a prayer to hope he regains some mojo.

[NMThreeMVP]

Please post more. This board needs more reasonable people. It's getting unbearable.

To your point, there really aren't many alternatives that leave us in a better situation than just resigning Jrue. The only possible replacements in FA are Patty Mills (who most likely is staying in SA and there is a distinct possibility that the market will overvalue him out of our cap space), Derrick Rose (shoot me), Shaun Livingston (can we afford to play someone who literally refuses to shoot 3s? Also he's 33 I believe), or Darren Collison (not a horrible option but not in Jrue's league as a defender and almost definitely better suited coming off the bench).

The 2 other options that I keep seeing are Brandon Knight, who has been garbage for 2 straight years and would essentially be a prayer at a reclamation project, and Eric Bledsoe, who would actually probably be an upgrade but I cannot imagine we have the assets to get him unless another Boogie situation arises.

Jrue is definitely limited, but I firmly believe that resigning him is pretty much our only realistic option this offseason. It gives us room to fill another hole with our limited assets (cap space and picks) instead of plugging the one that would be created by letting him walk. I would love to keep him under 20/year, but an overpay seems like a better option than the alternative.

You could easily look at Jrue Holiday's 1st 3 seasons as a Pelican and say he was garbage.

Brandon Knight hasn't been great in Phoenix. That's not BREAKING NEWS. But he was a rising star in Milwaukee, and averaged 19/5 last season in Phoenix, and hasn't really fit in playing SG with the emergence of Booker on a team trying to develop young guys and tank. He's also been injured, like Jrue, but nothing that was major.

Knight is not the defensive player Jrue is, but he's a capable defender that was having a great year before being traded to Phoenix. He's a better scorer and 3pt shooter.

I get why people would just look at how things have gone in Phoenix and not want anything to do with Knight, but I don't understand why if you're comparing him to Jrue Holiday who averaged 45 games played his 1st 3 seasons in NOLA, one guy is worth the max and the other guy is trash. Sounds a lot like recency bias, only recency bias would also mean you'd take into account Jrue playing like crap down the stretch.

This attachment to Jrue closely resembles Stockholm Syndrome.

Jrue 5 yrs, $125 million
Knight 3 yrs, $43.8 million

I honestly don't understand how this is debatable. Both guys are risk. Which one looks like the bigger risk?

[6warddude]

You could easily look at Jrue Holiday's 1st 3 seasons as a Pelican and say he was garbage.

Brandon Knight hasn't been great in Phoenix. That's not BREAKING NEWS. But he was a rising star in Milwaukee, and averaged 19/5 last season in Phoenix, and hasn't really fit in playing SG with the emergence of Booker on a team trying to develop young guys and tank. He's also been injured, like Jrue, but nothing that was major.

Knight is not the defensive player Jrue is, but he's a capable defender that was having a great year before being traded to Phoenix. He's a better scorer and 3pt shooter.

I get why people would just look at how things have gone in Phoenix and not want anything to do with Knight, but I don't understand why if you're comparing him to Jrue Holiday who averaged 45 games played his 1st 3 seasons in NOLA, one guy is worth the max and the other guy is trash. Sounds a lot like recency bias, only recency bias would also mean you'd take into account Jrue playing like crap down the stretch.

This attachment to Jrue closely resembles Stockholm Syndrome.

Jrue 5 yrs, $125 million
Knight 3 yrs, $43.8 million

I honestly don't understand how this is debatable. Both guys are risk. Which one looks like the bigger risk?

i think everyone on the board would agree that with a healthy jrue or knight at the point this team will make the playoffs next season.......my issue is who will we be able to improve and make the team better with in the 19,20,21 seasons.....i say we can improve the team with the guy who makes the less money.....

[Mythrol]

And if we give Holiday the contract and he's hurt or play is suspect again and we miss the playoffs again. Now we have no cap space to improve other than re-signing Cousins? Why would Boogie return. Now if we go into the season with Frazier for example and we miss the playoffs but we'll have two max (near max)that summer this teams in a much better place to sell Cousins on signing.

That is not our cap situation going forward unfortunately.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

And if we give Holiday the contract and he's hurt or play is suspect again and we miss the playoffs again. Now we have no cap space to improve other than re-signing Cousins? Why would Boogie return. Now if we go into the season with Frazier for example and we miss the playoffs but we'll have two max (near max)that summer this teams in a much better place to sell Cousins on signing.

LOL.
We are done having cap space as of 2017.
Once we max cousins and already AD we will always be over the cap.
It's the lux tax we will looking at.

[Rheem654]

You could easily look at Jrue Holiday's 1st 3 seasons as a Pelican and say he was garbage.

Brandon Knight hasn't been great in Phoenix. That's not BREAKING NEWS. But he was a rising star in Milwaukee, and averaged 19/5 last season in Phoenix, and hasn't really fit in playing SG with the emergence of Booker on a team trying to develop young guys and tank. He's also been injured, like Jrue, but nothing that was major.

Knight is not the defensive player Jrue is, but he's a capable defender that was having a great year before being traded to Phoenix. He's a better scorer and 3pt shooter.

I get why people would just look at how things have gone in Phoenix and not want anything to do with Knight, but I don't understand why if you're comparing him to Jrue Holiday who averaged 45 games played his 1st 3 seasons in NOLA, one guy is worth the max and the other guy is trash. Sounds a lot like recency bias, only recency bias would also mean you'd take into account Jrue playing like crap down the stretch.

This attachment to Jrue closely resembles Stockholm Syndrome.

Jrue 5 yrs, $125 million
Knight 3 yrs, $43.8 million

I honestly don't understand how this is debatable. Both guys are risk. Which one looks like the bigger risk?

You do make some good points here. If and probably when the team does re-sign Jrue, you know one of their main selling points to the fans and media will be, "He's never really had a full training camp to gel with the system and players, and the injuries are well behind him."

It would be great if we could add Knight to go along with Holiday. That'd be a good combo who each compliment each other, although are we getting similiar production and game from Crawford already? As long as Knight has put his pattern of getting epicially posterized far behind him.

Would take Ajinca + Pondexter +Frazier or Ajinca + Moore to make the salaries work. And then they'd still have the MLE to add a SF type like Justin Holiday, CJ Miles, Casspi, Sefolosha, etc.

Cousins / ________
Davis / Cunningham/ Diallo
Hill / Holiday
Holiday / Moore/ Crawford
Knight / Cook

[da ThRONe]

That is not our cap situation going forward unfortunately.

LOL.
We are done having cap space as of 2017.
Once we max cousins and already AD we will always be over the cap.
It's the lux tax we will looking at.

Why is it people act as if cap space can't be created? There's a reason why expiring contracts have value. Sad I have to explain this to knowledgeable fans.

On a side note Demps has put this team together that have to give away highly questionable deals just to possibly be a playoff team and people here still defends him.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Why is it people act as if cap space can't be created? There's a reason why expiring contracts have value. Sad I have to explain this to knowledgeable fans.

On a side note Demps has put this team together that have to give away highly questionable deals just to possibly be a playoff team and people here still defends him.

Create space to sign B level players yes, but no game changers.
Once we pay Jrue 22-25M, Cousins the max and AD we won't have cap space period to sign free agents.
We will be operating over the cap for the next 5 seasons at least.
Having cap space has no advantage after this season.

[NMThreeMVP]

Create space to sign B level players yes, but no game changers.
Once we pay Jrue 22-25M, Cousins the max and AD we won't have cap space period to sign free agents.
We will be operating over the cap for the next 5 seasons at least.
Having cap space has no advantage after this season.

I think the point is NOT to pay Jrue and then we'd be able to create cap space.

[RUFshreve]

Why is it people act as if cap space can't be created? There's a reason why expiring contracts have value. Sad I have to explain this to knowledgeable fans.

On a side note Demps has put this team together that have to give away highly questionable deals just to possibly be a playoff team and people here still defends him.

We wouldn't be able to create the kind of cap space you're suggesting, not even close.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

I think the point is NOT to pay Jrue and then we'd be able to create cap space.

For what, for who?

Brandon Knight isn’t the answer.

The FO love Jrue Holiday wrongly or rightly and they have no attachment to Brandon Knight in place of Jrue.

Trading Knight for Asik would have me interested though.

Len is FA next season which they won’t want to pay and Chandler is ageing and sometimes injured, so they need another C.
They save about 20M and less one year on their books with this trade.

This would be plan B if we can’t get a Lin or Bledsoe using our 2018 pick.

People assume we need a pass first PG next to true, but think about how well Jrue and Tyreke played together even though it was a small sample size.
Jrue just needs another combo guard who can handle the ball.
At the moment too many teams know that Jrue is the only guy in the finishing 5 that can handle the ball and he is usually double teamed.

Use the MLE to bring back Cunningham and sign Justin Holiday using the RE.

The team isn’t perfect but I think it’s a playoff team next season.

Knight/Frazier/Cook
Holiday/Moore/Crawford
Hill/Justin Holiday/Toupane/Q-Pon
Davis/Cunningham/Diallo
Cousins/Ajinca

[Kumar]

And if we give Holiday the contract and he's hurt or play is suspect again and we miss the playoffs again. Now we have no cap space to improve other than re-signing Cousins? Why would Boogie return. Now if we go into the season with Frazier for example and we miss the playoffs but we'll have two max (near max)that summer this teams in a much better place to sell Cousins on signing.

We won't. Cousins's cap hold will be near 28 million. Still have Asik, Ajinca, Moore, and Hill on the books with Davis. Gotta get rid of contracts if you want even 1 max.

[da ThRONe]

We wouldn't be able to create the kind of cap space you're suggesting, not even close.

There's always ways to create cap space. Stretching Asking, trading any combo of Hill, Moore, Ajinca. Not re-signing Holiday. As much potential as Davis/Cousins pairing has it's not enough to mortgage all future flexibility on the hope of keeping them together. If DeMarcus stays here it's with the idea that we can be better in the future. It won't be money as that will be available with any team he chooses. If we are giving Holiday a near max contract it kills that flexibility and those 3 have to be a championship caliber core (with no guarantee Cousins stays) or we are stuck in NBA hell for the next 4-5 years. I for one do not want to go in that water betting on Jrue Holiday.

[Darkhorse985]

Off-season Plan:

1A. Trade Moore, Pondexter, and 2018 top 3 protected first for PG Bledsoe or Rubio
1B. Trade Moore and Pondexter for PG Brandon Knight as a fall back plan.
2. Let Jrue walk or get a sign and trade if we are lucky.
3. Stretch Asik
4. Sign 2nd tier starting FA SG with a good 3-point percentage (8-12 million a year).
5. Sign Omri Casspi or a similar backup SF with a good 3-point percentage (4-6 million a year).
6. If Cunningham opts out, either re-sign him or Terrance Jones (4-6 million a year).

Is this not a better alternative to having Holiday the MLE and BAE? If we could do everything else and keep Holiday as our starting SG, I wouldn't complain.

Example Lineup:

PG: Bledsoe/Frazier
SG: CJ Miles/Crawford (Other options at SG could be keeping Jrue or signing Korver, JJ Redick, Nick Young, or Dion Waiters)
SF: Hill/Casspi
PF: Davis/Cunningham/Diallo
C: Cousins/Ajinca

The rest of the roster could then be filled out with our 2nd round pick and vet min players.
This roster with the big 3 healthy and a competent coach should be in the playoffs next season.

[pawel]

You guys are throwing Philly as a risky team for Jrue.

From one hand I agree - they have space.

But they have Simmons - who is going to take ballhandling duties.
And all of their future will be decided at the draft.
If they will get a Lakers pick - they will get two top 5 picks (maybe even top 4). So they will take for sure a PG for the future. With one pick (4-5th) they may take Tatum/Jackson/Monk
Jrue won't go to such a franchise. Even for the max.

So with Jrue-Philly connection - I will wait till the draft lottery and draft itself...

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Off-season Plan:

1A. Trade Moore, Pondexter, and 2018 top 3 protected first for PG Bledsoe or Rubio
1B. Trade Moore and Pondexter for PG Brandon Knight as a fall back plan.
2. Let Jrue walk or get a sign and trade if we are lucky.
3. Stretch Asik
4. Sign 2nd tier starting FA SG with a good 3-point percentage (8-12 million a year).
5. Sign Omri Casspi or a similar backup SF with a good 3-point percentage (4-6 million a year).
6. If Cunningham opts out, either re-sign him or Terrance Jones (4-6 million a year).

Is this not a better alternative to having Holiday the MLE and BAE? If we could do everything else and keep Holiday as our starting SG, I wouldn't complain.

Example Lineup:

PG: Bledsoe/Frazier
SG: CJ Miles/Crawford (Other options at SG could be keeping Jrue or signing Korver, JJ Redick, Nick Young, or Dion Waiters)
SF: Hill/Casspi
PF: Davis/Cunningham/Diallo
C: Cousins/Ajinca

The rest of the roster could then be filled out with our 2nd round pick and vet min players.
This roster with the big 3 healthy and a competent coach should be in the playoffs next season.

You don't have to give away Moore to get Knight.
They were trying to offload him this season for a second rounder.

If they want to make salaries match then they can have Asik and Q-Pon.

[pawel]

agree - Suns just want to get rid of Knight.
don't need to give them anything valuable

still doubt that they might want Asik

Asik will be interesting for franchises only after stretching him - for a minimum...


I don't see Pels going after Knight unless they will let Jrue go and will be looking for other options

Save future picks for real players

[Buckwheat]

First off we cant win games with a healthly Jrue Holiday now against teams that we need to be competative against in this league to compete.
So to make a statement of a healthly JH is BS.
Guys he doesnt have the Skill Set Period. Even when he was healthy he was sub par against the upper players when matched up.