Draft Prospects Discussion

[The Dude]

A floor is the worst possible out come thats a extremely high floor. His floor is Anthony Morrow.

An opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge that everyone has. His floor is Eric Gordon.

[The Dude]

Eric has a high bbiq. He fits the Gentry's system. He is unselfish, not ball dominant, and is a willing passer. He creates his shoot; a good three point shooter, spaces the defense and is very efficient as a scorer. He is a good decision maker and handles the ball during crunch time.
On defense, he keeps his man in front of him. Gordon is
a well rounded player. He is community oriented.
His weakness is injuries.
Unfortunately there's tons of group thinking on this board about Gordon.

This is not true. He is semi-ball dominant, his handle is terrible, he's a decent passer at best, he can't shoot off the dribble, he is no longer athletic and can't guard any good player, and he certainly isn't efficient. At this point he is a good catch and shoot player who can play alright defensively. I'll give you that he is a nice albeit misunderstood guy, but describing him as a good player is just inaccurate. He's done well with catch and shoot 3's recently, but if those weren't as strong as they are his numbers would be terrible. He's decent. When you factor in the injuries, he's below decent.

[Eman5805]

If not for Gordon's totally lack of effort on defense and his salary I wouldn't mind him. But he has those issues. So I want him gone, even at a reduced salary, I'm done.

Hield has an intangible element to his game that Gordon may have had 7 years ago, but he's totally lost it now.

[Silverfoxx]

A dead eye 3 point shooter who can semi create off the dribble undersized SG with a good wing span, that sounds sooooooo familiar to guy everyone wants to draft.

this is 2012 "DaThrone" all over again lol

[frankatank109]

Eric has a high bbiq. He fits the Gentry's system. He is unselfish, not ball dominant, and is a willing passer. He creates his shoot; a good three point shooter, spaces the defense and is very efficient as a scorer. He is a good decision maker and handles the ball during crunch time.
On defense, he keeps his man in front of him. Gordon is
a well rounded player. He is community oriented.
His weakness is injuries.
Unfortunately there's tons of group thinking on this board about Gordon.

Almost none of those things are true anymore. Have you not watched him since 2011?

[Silverfoxx]

Eric has a high bbiq. He fits the Gentry's system. He is unselfish, not ball dominant, and is a willing passer. He creates his shoot; a good three point shooter, spaces the defense and is very efficient as a scorer. He is a good decision maker and handles the ball during crunch time.
On defense, he keeps his man in front of him. Gordon is
a well rounded player. He is community oriented.
His weakness is injuries.
Unfortunately there's tons of group thinking on this board about Gordon.

Not sure........

[durun]

Almost none of those things are true anymore. Have you not watched him since 2011?

Name the Pels that are better three point shooters and more efficient scorers. Back your statement with stats.

[durun]

If not for Gordon's totally lack of effort on defense and his salary I wouldn't mind him. But he has those issues. So I want him gone, even at a reduced salary, I'm done.

Hield has an intangible element to his game that Gordon may have had 7 years ago, but he's totally lost it now.

Give me examples!!

[GuardianAngel25]

Lol I'm a Gordon fan but you are talking about the guy like he is the best SG in the NBA. You listed no negatives and gave him every positive you can give. If he had everything you stated then he would be the best SG in the NBA. What you said might have been true long ago but not anymore. He is more then just a 3 point shooter but not everything you listed and if he still has those traits it's definitely not at a high level.

[durun]

This is not true. He is semi-ball dominant, his handle is terrible, he's a decent passer at best, he can't shoot off the dribble, he is no longer athletic and can't guard any good player, and he certainly isn't efficient. At this point he is a good catch and shoot player who can play alright defensively. I'll give you that he is a nice albeit misunderstood guy, but describing him as a good player is just inaccurate. He's done well with catch and shoot 3's recently, but if those weren't as strong as they are his numbers would be terrible. He's decent. When you factor in the injuries, he's below decent.

Provide me stats to back your claims about efficiency for example. Do you believe Holiday is more efficient and less ball dominant than Gordon?

[frankatank109]

Name the Pels that are better three point shooters and more efficient scorers. Back your statement with stats.

He is a good three pointer shooter, I already said I'll give him that, but that's it. For scoring efficiency, he's shooting 41% from the floor, which is not efficient at all, even for a guard (and his PER is below average at 13.59). Also something like 85% of his three pointers are catch and shoot, which means he's not creating the shot for himself.

Give me examples!!

Watch the games man, his man just blows right by him every time.

[frankatank109]

Provide me stats to back your claims about efficiency for example. Do you believe Holiday is more efficient and less ball dominant than Gordon?

Stats aren't everything man. There's no stat that shows that EG is more ball-dominant than Jrue, in fact Jrue has a higher usage rate than he does. But if you actually watch the games then you'll see that when Gordon gets the ball chances are its not coming out unless he shoots it, and when Jrue gets the ball he will pass it if he does not like the shot, or sees an opportunity.

[durun]

He is a good three pointer shooter, I already said I'll give him that, but that's it. For scoring efficiency, he's shooting 41% from the floor, which is not efficient at all, even for a guard (and his PER is below average at 13.59). Also something like 85% of his three pointers are catch and shoot, which means he's not creating the shot for himself.



Watch the games man, his man just blows right by him every time.

A 40% three point shooter is better than a 50% two pointer shooter. 41% doesn't measure scoring efficiency rather fg%. Google efg% .

[frankatank109]

You don't understand what efg% means. It's basic algebra. A 40% three point shooter is better than a 50% two pointer shooter. 41% doesn't measure scoring efficiency. Google efg?
Google efg%.

Just because I forgot to mention it doesn't mean I don't understand it. His efg is perfectly decent, but that doesn't make him a good scorer. It means that we give him around 30 mpg and he is a very good catch and shoot three point shooter, who we consider to be an offensive focal point, who can't really do that much else. Of course if you only care about stats then you'll never know about that, just like you'll never know Russel was better than Chamberlain, or that Duncan was better than Malone.

[N.O.Bronco]

Eric has a high bbiq. He fits the Gentry's system. He is unselfish, not ball dominant, and is a willing passer. He creates his shoot; a good three point shooter, spaces the defense and is very efficient as a scorer. He is a good decision maker and handles the ball during crunch time.
On defense, he keeps his man in front of him. Gordon is
a well rounded player. He is community oriented.
His weakness is injuries.
Unfortunately there's tons of group thinking on this board about Gordon.

Bold = True

underlined= Semi-true to barely true.

Left untouched = not really true or I can't really speak to that I.E. his level of community involvement.

I mean this is my opinion and all but some of that is backed up and some not so much.

[durun]

[QUOTE=frankatank109;1366057]Stats aren't everything man. There's no stat that shows that EG is more ball-dominant than Jrue, in fact Jrue has a higher usage rate than he does. But if you actually watch the games then you'll see that when Gordon gets the ball chances are its not coming out unless he shoots it, and when Jrue gets the ball he will pass it if he does not like the



Stats show just the opposite about Gordon and fg attempts. You must be confusing EG with Cole.

[frankatank109]

[QUOTE=durun;1366064]

Stats aren't everything man. There's no stat that shows that EG is more ball-dominant than Jrue, in fact Jrue has a higher usage rate than he does. But if you actually watch the games then you'll see that when Gordon gets the ball chances are its not coming out unless he shoots it, and when Jrue gets the ball he will pass it if he does not like the



Stats show just the opposite about Gordon and fg attempts. You must be confusing EG with Cole.

What part of stats don't tell the full story are you not getting?

[pawel]

some people mentioned Dwayne Bacon as a potential 2nd rounder - he decided to remain at florida state for another year...

[durun]

[QUOTE=frankatank109;1366108]

What part of stats don't tell the full story are you not getting?

"He gets it and shoots." Provide stat reference

[durun]

Bold = True

underlined= Semi-true to barely true.

Left untouched = not really true or I can't really speak to that I.E. his level of community involvement.

I mean this is my opinion and all but some of that is backed up and some not so much.

You can easily go to www.foxsports.com/ and to go nba stats. Then you can BOLD the rest. For efg%: EG is at 52% followed by TE, who averages 48.6%. Holiday slightly trails Evans. Davis rating is 50.8%'. Curry's efg is 63%.

[Spaniard]

Give me examples!!

I always hate message board guy that throws out the "prove it", "provide stats", but doesn't actually add any on his own. If you disagree with something, it's on you to prove your point, not the other way around. If all of these stats exist, feel free to show the class.

I don't totally dislike Eric Gordon. I was actually proud of him for being one of the guys willing to take on more of a complimentary role these last couple of years. Someone had to take a back seat, and in a lot of ways he was one of them. Now that being said....

Jrue has a PER of 19.84, as compared to Gordon's 13.59. And to argue about ball dominance by comparing to the team's point guard, aka, the guy who is supposed to have the ball in his hands? Well that's just a bad start. Jrue has consistently averaged more than twice the assists Eric produces. Jrue is more efficient because he gives you more than just taking the ball and shooting it.

Now I know you can't be arguing for Eric Gordon's defense? Here is a work up by our beloved bourbon street shots for last season....



His injuries:



His Salary:

Eric Gordon $15,514,031....$4.5 million more than any other player on the team

Overall, we need reliable players. Guys who we can count on to be on the court. And you can not expect to win basketball games with guards that rate out about 88th amongst NBA guards in defense. If we want more, we need to expect more.

[frankatank109]

"He gets it and shoots." Provide stat reference

There is no stat reference, because a stat for such a thing does not exist. As I have repeatedly said, stats don't tell the full story of a players impact on the court. You seem to have some difficulty in either reading or understanding this, not sure why. To actually understand EG, you have to watch him and talk about his behaviors. You can't simply keep calling for stats, which often provide an inaccurate or incomplete picture.

[JJackisangry]

Gordon was a potentially great player that we never got to witness at his best because of his numerous injuries that took away some of what made him great during his time with the Clippers. I think in hindsight Dell made some poor decisions that looked interesting at the time (acquiring Evans and Holiday, matching Gordon), but I still see Holiday playing a part in future teams if he can get over his potentially chronic injuries and stay healthy. I can't say I feel the same about Gordon and Evans because they can't be relied on to help Anthony carry this team to where it needs to go. Unfortunately for us talent doesn't always mean success.

[The Dude]

Provide me stats to back your claims about efficiency for example. Do you believe Holiday is more efficient and less ball dominant than Gordon?

1. You've provided no stats, but that's all you defend your argument on. There is literally not one statistic in your wildly inaccurate account of who EG is as a player, but to entertain you, here are a few...

2. Holiday is a PG so I would hope he is more ball dominant. In 33 mpg EG averaged 2.7 assists. In 28 mpg Holiday averaged 6.0. Holiday has a PER of 19.84, with EG's being 13.59 (to put that in perspective, J.R. Smith in a bad year has a PER of 12.17). Gordon, a volume shooter, has a 41.8% FG percentage (to put that in perspective, Austin Rivers shoots 43.5% FGs). Defensively, just watch the games as everyone else does, he is a below-average defender and nowhere near Holiday.

And I assume you'll go with the "Holiday is a PG so that's why his assists are higher" positions so I feel I should also point out that Holiday averages 16.8 points to EG's 15.2. The numbers support what he is...a catch and shoot 3 point shooter who can do a little bit more, but not much.

[durun]

1. You've provided no stats, but that's all you defend your argument on. There is literally not one statistic in your wildly inaccurate account of who EG is as a player, but to entertain you, here are a few...

2. Holiday is a PG so I would hope he is more ball dominant. In 33 mpg EG averaged 2.7 assists. In 28 mpg Holiday averaged 6.0. Holiday has a PER of 19.84, with EG's being 13.59 (to put that in perspective, J.R. Smith in a bad year has a PER of 12.17). Gordon, a volume shooter, has a 41.8% FG percentage (to put that in perspective, Austin Rivers shoots 43.5% FGs). Defensively, just watch the games as everyone else does, he is a below-average defender and nowhere near Holiday.

And I assume you'll go with the "Holiday is a PG so that's why his assists are higher" positions so I feel I should also point out that Holiday averages 16.8 points to EG's 15.2. The numbers support what he is...a catch and shoot 3 point shooter who can do a little bit more, but not much.

Gentry's system requires a point guard to pass and the ball to move. Why would you want a ball dominant point guard in such a system? Evans is a better passer, less ball dominant and the team earned a playoff seed. With Evans, the team and Davis play better last year.
A stat line without efficiency is a volume shooter. EG takes 12 attempts compared 14.5 for Holiday. EG plays an average 5 minutes per game and takes less attempts. Holiday is average around 34% as a three points shooter. Efficiency is very important stat in today's game. Look at Golden State.
It doesn't matter how you score if you are efficient. KLAY is a catch and shoot player and I bet you love that guy. Holiday is a slasher and scores two. He is a below-average distance shooter. EG scores three pointers and that's why his 41% fg% is greater than Holiday's 47%. Put another way, base upon 100 shots, EG scores 104 points and Holiday puts up 99 points. It's simple math.