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I'm telling you Valentine is a Ginobli clone with a little better skill set. I take that player on our team all day. If Valentine can be around 40% from 3 he could be a perfect fit here. I have no doubt he will be a good defender. I don't know if he will be a great defender but with his effort and passion he plays with I see him taking defense very seriously.
Im not sure about Skal or Murray as all stars.Originally Posted by 504ByrdGang
I like Murray but he really does worry me more then some of the other guard prospects. I am not as worried about athleticism but when you combine that with the small wingspan, small frame and the lack of strong passing ability as a combo guard, more flags go up for him then anyone else you named.
For someone that dislikes Hield I am shocked you like Murray. Because unlike Hield or Valentine, Murray actually comes in below average in most measurable categories compared to the average NBA shooting guard.
Lately I'm not big on Murray he's giving me Austin River vibes. As for heild he's a pure scorer and I would like a guy to bring more to the table because I don't think he will be an elite scorer in the NBA but more of a 12-15 ppg guy at best. Skal has all the tools and raw skill to be a star he lacks drive and polished game.he's a huge project imo.
Last edited by 504ByrdGang; 03-13-2016 at 11:38 PM.
1-6
That's why I'm not big on Brown.he's so much like Aminu he has all the tools but no skills and no drive. I wouldn't be mad if we picked him but I'm not sold on him. But you are right Luwawu is much note skilled than the guys who have just have the NBA body with his shooting, passing, and defense.
To Murray's credit he seems to already eclipsed Rivers in shooting capability but yeah, I have concerns about him.
My only thing about Murray vs. Valentine is Murray is surrounded by a lot more talent at Kentucky which helps him get better looks. Valentine does more with less. Murray is a deadeye sharpshooter but Valentine has better handles and defensive awareness from what I have seen.
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Lest we forget that Murray is the freshman as opposed to Hield and Valentine both being seniors. Murray is skinny.... like Seth Curry and Reggie Miller.... pick him
So this is a valid arguement for Valentine but not Simmons right? Can't use that jus got fit your argument but knock someone else for the same exact thing.
Thats also the problem with Murray. Lots of Freshman get out after a year and are picked on the expectation of a trajectory of growth but never achieve it. We have a few in our history to testify to this. I like Murray, but the tweener label is a bit of a concern. Point Guard body with so-so athleticism with a shooting guards mentality.
Valentine and Hield may be older, but they have also proven something Murray hasn't, they have proven they can continually improve and diversify their game. Valentine especially. With Murray you get a guy shooting like Hield and Valentine are right now, years younger, but there is no guarantee Murray will continue to diversify and improve at the same rate going forward.
What did Simmons do? He didn't even make the tourney. Come on now. Valentine is doing something so that is why it is an argument for him. Murray is doing something too but he also has solid NBA talent around him.
People are in love with Simmons potential, especially in Louisiana. I get it. He may live up to it or he may not. I am not saying he won't but he hasn't done anything to impress me yet. I don't think he is a can't miss and I don't think he is a clear cut number one pick over Ingram. Let's not pretend that he did anything at LSU. His LSU campaign was a failure and he played like a guy just trying to get to the draft.
Last edited by JrueDat; 03-14-2016 at 08:34 PM.
Valentine has officialy become overrated on this board his not even projected to be a lotto pick.
I never said Valentine should be a top 5 pick. I was talking about Valentine vs Murray for our team and he said I couldn't use Valentine doing more with less in my argument because I didn't use it for Simmons in a different thread. I was just saying I didn't use that for Simmons because he has not done anything of note, other than get embarrassed by Texas A&M. I feel that Valentine will be a projected top 10 pick after the tourney though. If we are at 7 or 8 I draft him because I think he is a perfect fit next to Jrue. I wouldn't draft him top 5 though.
Last edited by JrueDat; 03-14-2016 at 08:45 PM.
He is a freshman and a better player then Valentine. It's much more then just being in love with his potential. Because he's not in the tourney means what? Lol you are sitting here saying how Murray has a better team which should be taken into account but Simmons doesn't get the same? You act like Valentine isn't on a good team. He plays for one of the best programs in the country that continually get good recruits in a great system. Simmons was around a terrible team in a bad system along with having a terrible coach. What would Valentine have LSU doing right now? Lol I'm sure they would be some top team in the tourney. Yea lets not act like Simmons did anything lol. He's just up there with the most double doubles as a freshman ever and has been dominant as the only player teams game plan around. Simmons is a freshman while Valentine is a senior. What did Valentine do his first 4 years that are even comparable to Simmons? Making the tourney has absolutely nothing to do with how good Simmons is as a player. That's like saying AD isn't that good because he isn't in the playoffs. A lot more goes into winning then 1 player. It's not like Michigan St. all the sudden started winning with Valentine. They have been winning for over a decade. Typical when someone makes an arguement to support their theory but the same arguement is hypocritical with a player they don't like.
Says a lot when you want to talk about a player like they are the best thing ever but won't draft him top 5. That makes absolutely no sense.
I wasn't even talking about Valentine vs. Simmons. I was talking about Valentine vs. Murray. You are the one that quoted me inserting Simmons into the argument because I said I am not sold on him in a different thread. Valentine and Simmons don't even play the same position. Simmons had great stats that didn't translate to wins. I am not going to even argue the freshman vs. senior thing because there is no way of knowing what Simmons would or would not be his senior year. I am done arguing with you over this. To the ignore list with you.
because he isn't a "projected" lotto pick means he is overrated on this board? Kwame Brown was a projected for sure all star and draymond green and Manu were 2nd round picks.
Lol I inserted Simmons because the same argument you are praising Valentine for you are trying to use against Simmons. That makes a whole lot of sense.
So your comparing one of the worst #1 pick who 80% of the time turn out to be good player and 2 second round picks who 90% of the time don't even stay in the nba as a reason we should reach at picking a guy in the mid teens at 6-10?
I'll go on record 100% and say that if he doesn't grade out awfully in the combine or that knee seems to be more of an issue then first though, I think in 5 years Valentine will be one of the better players out of this draft if he can stay healthy and ends up somewhere decent. Which he will have a good chance of because he will go later then 10 in all likelihood.
The kid is doing something that hasn't been done in 30 years with his assists, points, FG% and rebounds. What people are banking on with guys like Murray, Poetl, Brown and some others is that they will hopefully get to the relative talent level Valentine already has. But if history is any indicator many won't.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 03-14-2016 at 09:35 PM.
History has also shown being great in college often doesn't translate to the pros.
History has also shown great euro players turn out garbage 99% of the time in the NBA.
Man I wish we could just add 3 more inches on him to be a true SF. His athleticism and skill set would fit in perfect there filling a huge need for us. I just don't see anyway he is a bust. I can definitely see him not being an all star but IMO he atleast is a great bench player. He really does remind me so much of Ginobli. If he can just go to the Harden/Ginobli school for finishing at the rim with that euro step then I think he can have a very good career. He needs to try and master some of the moves to score that don't take elite athleticism. He should be a good defender as well with his makeup.
Being good in college is the bare minimum(with some very, very rare exceptions) to make it in the pros. So yes, most won't make it. The league's capacity is 450 so obviously in a draft of 60 players a year many won't make it beyond the bench and fewer to the court as a meaningful contributor
The key is identifying those that will.
A prospect that I like in the second round is Danuel House from Texas A&M
I agree. He would be a nice pick up in the second round. I am afraid he will raise his stock in the tourney though and go late first. We might have to look at Jake Layman of Maryland instead. He has a baby Ryno feel to him but he can play the 3/4 instead of 4/5 like Ryno.
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