In a vacuum, I can certainly live with this deal. My concern is more long term and a perceived inability for Dell to play hardball. I guess as a Saints fan, I'm spoiled by Loomis.Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
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In a vacuum, I can certainly live with this deal. My concern is more long term and a perceived inability for Dell to play hardball. I guess as a Saints fan, I'm spoiled by Loomis.
Loomis has overpaid several guys big deals in regrettable fashion. He's also let the wrong guys walk by not paying them. Also, comparing a NFL and NBA GM's negotiating strategy is apples and oranges, as they play by completely different rules.
Dell is now perceived as having the inability to play hardball and is a soft negotiator? LMAO.
Last edited by saintsinNO; 07-02-2015 at 09:07 AM.
I suppose my statement reads a little more definitive than I meant it to be. I don't know that he's a soft negotiator. It's just a concern. Hopefully unfounded, because I generally like the moves Dell makes. I'm simply saying, I hope that Dell is willing to use leverage he has at his disposal if he has it.
HOT TAKES!!, LOL
Oh ok, I misread then. To play devil's advocate, the alternative risk is alienating a player that wants to be here and he goes and leaves for even less money. MM is working under the assumption that if Asik were to garner interest from other teams, that would only serve to set his contract value, but in actuality, it means you potentially (and likely IMO) lose him. Nothing says that bad negotiations don't lead him to take less money elsewhere. Not having to risk that is worth something. Not to mention, if we are trying to become a place people want to go, you want Dell to be known as a fair guy, not just a hard negotiator; front office reputations are huge when it comes to that. If you don't open the door, the guy can't leave; that's what Dell did here for a fair price.
Simply put, to say that a guy may only be worth $8mil/year to another team and that's what we should've paid him is way over-simplified and just not the way negotiations work. There is no way that, all factors considered, Asik's deal is a C-, particularly from a guy who has maintained that there is no other realistic alternative. Doesn't equate.
Last edited by saintsinNO; 07-02-2015 at 09:19 AM.
I have no idea whether there were other suitors. I could see any of the following potentially holding interest in Asik:
Celtics: Playoff team with tons of space and a terrible front court
Bucks: Playoff team with cap space, starting Zaza Pachulia at center
Knicks: Tons of cap space, and likely to miss out on LMA and Monroe; Asik could be a plan C kind of guy
Mavericks: Lost Chandler and likely to miss out on DeAndre Jordan and LMA; Asik could be a plan D kind of guy
Lakers: Tons of cap space, and likely to miss out on LMA, DeAndre Jordan, and Cousins; Asik could be a plan D kind of guy
Maybe none of those teams ever held interest. We'll never know. But all it takes is one interested team to start a bidding war.
Yeah that's how I see this. Maybe Asik doesn't get as long of a contract elsewhere but maybe he does get a 2yr/24m deal and then hits FA again after the huge cap spike. Asik's agent could have easily said he would take a shorter deal for more money elsewhere.
When you combine it all with the fact that Dell really wanted that non-guaranteed 5th year to be able to bring in a big piece later it really is a fair market contract.
It really feels like people talking themselves into something happening and then real life happens and it didn't match up with their dream so it's a bad move. "Asik is our only realistic option." *signs Asik* "Bad deal." Lol. I'm really confused because it seems like nearly all of the people who were anti Asik have seen the contracts being thrown around and realized it's a fine deal. But the person who defended Asik against all of them is having a bigger issue with the actual deal.
Last edited by Mythrol; 07-02-2015 at 09:29 AM.
Agree 100%....I didn't hear his name mentioned by any of the other 29 teams as a potential FA signing.
I like Asik in an "open" system.. he did real good in houston in space. I think he'll justify his contract.
I think Asik could have been a plan C or D for some teams, after the LMA/DeAndre/Monroe dominoes fall. It's possible Dell wanted to sign Asik before teams became desperate.
So does that mean Ajinca was an overpay as well? We didn't hear his name and he got 5m/yr. Was Cole an overpay even offering the QO? We haven't heard him mentioned at all.
Maybe we didn't hear names because the player WANTED to sign with us and so he didn't put his name out there as a FA. He acted on good faith that we would get a deal done.
Good point. I certainly see a possibility when a team that loses out on their target or their current starter begins to look around and might be more willing to overpay Asik. So, even if technically there were no teams vying for him now, there could have been later.
Exactly. The long and short of it is Dell got a starting center who is a good rebounder and solid defended for the 18th overall pick in a weak draft for probably about 10% of the cap. Asik leaving would cost us way more money than Asik staying. It's a good deal.
How much do u think asik is worth paying per year?
I think MM has said its the 4th year he has an issue with not the amount.
Certainly, I've considered that this is the reason for it. If it is, I say "Bravo!" to Dell and I respect doing business that way.
I see.
Contributor
Which means nothing.
It also seems like Dell had to slight overpay to get him to agree to the non garunteed money
1-6
Possibly so. Maybe he could get him for 4yr/40m without it but he really wanted that last non guaranteed year so gives him 4m as a kicker.
Why is the last non-guaranteed year so important? Is it as a potential trade asset or more to keep him if he really flourishes in the next few years?
Contributor
It's also the year before AD's new deal expires, could have something to do with it.
Huh? How does a QO have anything to do with this? A team gets a chance at the QO before free agency even begins. Ajinca is a backup C. You would not expect him to be the hottest name in a big free agent market for centers early on. However, starting caliber centers were the hot players in early free agency and Asik was never mentioned. I do think we outbid ourselves with him.
Both of you seem to be right. MM talked to his source last night and he stated this non guaranteed 5th year was key because it allows us to make a big move the summer before AD's contract expires.
Dell thinking long term on how to keep AD here for good. Being able to trade a 13m non guaranteed contract allows you to take a ton of money and the other team can just cut him and pay nothing.
He said he thought we could get him for 3 years/$27-28 million.
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