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Smart move to bow out. Wasn't really looking good for you.Originally Posted by MichaelMcNamara
And agreed, team showed me a lot last night. These last 20 games should be fun. Has been a while since games in March actually meant something for the Pels
I have been really watching Asik since I started dogging him to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ***, and I am going to stand by my statement that if we want to win a championship Asik can't be our center. He is so late on help defense because he is so slow, and is the catalyst of I think 7-8 pseudo turnovers per game. While he may set good screens, his screens are not nearly as effective because there is no reason for his defender to stay true to Asik, because Asik can't catch, and because if he does catch it it takes him a year to finish or he travels. I think he is a fantastic 1 on 1 defender against big boddied big men which is great, but that single ability I don't think trumps everything else.
I think the 7-8 number is an exaggeration. That would make him responsible for more than half our turnovers this season. That's pretty much impossible.
As for everything else, I disagree, but that is fine. My question is: You let him go this summer, what do you replace him with? The elite centers in this crop aren't coming and if you are on board with the Koufos/Ajinca people, then are you saying that those guys can be centers on a championship team, but Asik can't?
I will agree that Asik has deficiencies. What is harder for me to agree on is that we can replace him with someone better if we let him walk.
@mcnamara247
You are Very sensitive. If you feel you've been intellectually challenged, you absolutely take it personal & make it a personal attack.
I dont dislike you. You're not important enough in my life to dislike!
I wont hold it against you that you are 6'5"
You like thinking that you are the Mensa Master & prematurely think that you are going into the converstion smarter than the person you are communicating w/
Certainly,not w/in your own circle, but behind the computer mask you are under the preconceived notion that you are the smarter one.
As I posted in 214, you think everyone is a "Casual Fan" compared to you.
As far as the Financial side of the game, you do present facts to back up your claims & I bow to you for expanding my knowledge on the subject.
But as far as subtleties of the game, you dont present facts, you present an observational hypothisis, as does everyone else. Nothing etched in stone, just opinion.
Your concept of INSECURE is silly. I dont feel insecure because you have substantially more knowledge than me in the Finance Dept. of te NBA. I listen, I learn!
You go into NO discussion thinking you can learn from another threader about anything. You are gonna show them just how wrong they are & how smart you think you are .
You talk down to those that you think you can talk down, too.
You've taught me a boatload regarding Financial intricacies, but believe me, you cant teach a lick about the subtleties of basketball.
Can we lock this thread?
The airing of grievences should be held during Festivus, or on pm. Not out here for the public to go wolf pack on somebody. You would tell somebody you have an issue with them in a private setting, correct? So why are we airing our problems out here, like it's an episode of Jerry? We are better than this. If we don't respect eachother enough handle these things in private we are no better than the animals.
Last edited by UNO Gracias; 03-08-2015 at 01:00 PM.
If you Jimmer it, they will come.
Are there really people on here defending tigerdroppings? That place is quite possibly the most ignorant, backwards, racist, offensive sports forum on the web. If you want to forever lose a significant number of brain cells just wander over into the political forum for five minutes.
It is pretty much a running joke on a number of national sports forums. That's the sort of thing people are defending. I mean when I casually visited a football teams forum to get a little local insight into a player and saw a "most ignorant tigerdroppings posts" thread you can pretty much see how much of a laughing stock you are.
Last edited by N.O.Bronco; 03-08-2015 at 01:15 PM.
Please let's just move forward. My fault for engaging with those two.
Let's please talk Pels here. Not enough praise for AD & Asik for how pedestrian they made Gasol and Randolph look last night. Honest question - we get Ryno back but not Jrue, and somehow get Memphis in the playoffs; How does that series go?
This is why I only post on one forum for Pels stuff. No split loyalties from me!
Asik is a center you can win a title with if all your other parts function well. Look at the Bulls winning with Longley/Cartwright/Purdue/random tall white guy, or the Jazz teams they faced twice in the playoffs who started Greg Ostertag. Ben Wallace wasn't an offensive machine, he just played physical defense. The Spurs have been winning titles with mid tier centers since Robinson retured. The Heat started a random fan at center when they won their two titles. Sure many title winning teams started a top 1 or 2 center, but it's more often the team has one dominant big, and another big who is avg. Go and look back at NBA history, how often are both the 4 and 5 on title winning teams BOTH top ten in their positions?
We have AD. He is a dominant big. If Asik can clean a few things up with his game he will be better, but how our center unit plays, Asik certainly won't keep us out of title games. He won't win you games, but he won't be the reason you lose many.
I think we lose 4-2. But, next season the result would be reversed. Our lack of experience this year would be to much to overcome.
That's offensive to ignorant, backwards, racist people.
Yes..we bring a healthy Asik back, with an off season with the staff. I'm confident we'll see a better Asik.....
When and how long has Asik been injuried? Im just hearing about this injury.
CAW CAW!!!
-Founder and valuable member of the Caw Caw Boyz-
He was banged up after playing the last summer in the world games.....He missed 4 games early in the season because of an back injury. I guess the off season proved to be to much for him physically.
Looking at all centers, I guess it could be worse. MM is right, what you get for the money is about right.
It's tough to watch though, and I certainlybthought he was more athletic in the past watching him in chi.
First time in his career coming off some pretty big injuries, then he has to play Int'l ball.
I am really curious to see how he looks next year with a summer off from basketball and some specific conditioning. I don't think it is a forgone conclusion that this is the exact version of Asik we would see for the next few years. Getting more acclimated with our systems and continuity with teammates will help too.
Except, I think he will play EuroBasket this summer. Still I think he's pretty serviceable as a starting center, my only problem with him is his inability to play with Anderson. Few years ago he was really good in terms of footspeed and blitzing pick and roll, so I kinda expected him to be able to cohabitate with both AD and Ryno. Unfortunately he's not this guy this year, so may be with health and time it will help.
Honestly I think Koufos is a better player than Asik. He is much more mobile, has good hands, and defends and rebounds at a high level. I will probably go more into depth later but I would pay Koufos more than Omer. He isnt flashy either but Koufos is a more well rounded player
Last edited by speedyG; 03-08-2015 at 02:11 PM.
"pseudo turnovers"-- i didn't say turnovers--- include horrible shots that have no chance of being made which are missed or blocked. David Wesley was talking about it watching the game, not saying that affirms they exist, but i think if we can make up things called the kobe assist, pseudo turnovers should exist as well.
I didn't say there are better centers out there, all I said was I don't think we can win a championship with him. Even if we upgrade our 3 I don't think it happens. Thats why I think it is a priority to get a top dog center instead of a 3 when ever that is possible. Once again, I'm not saying that ajinca is better or koufos, all I'm saying, and i can't stress this enough, is that Asik should not be on this team the year we are trying to get to the finals. If that means he has to stay on another year or two thats fine, but with him on the court I don't think he gives us much chance.
You disagree with me about defenders not staying home against him? Which part do you disagree with? The fact that he can't catch, he travels a lot, or that he is very slow getting the ball up the rim? Next time you watch a game, watch how many turnovers asik has himself, including dropped passes that should have been caught, bobbled passes that are swiped, easily blocked shots, or out of control doesn't hit the rim wonders that never had a chance to go in in the first place.
Then watch how many times he could have helped on defense but was too slow to get over and make a difference. That is the only thing ajinca is better than asik at on defense. Ajinca albeit is also very slow, atleast can move over a little to help on penetration with his length. I would say help defense as a center in the NBA is one of the most important aspects of being a center though.
I always had the stance that Omer Asik is the least of our worries. he is the best overall center we have had since... Emeka?
completely different game back then. Much slower paced, much more bruising, and you could sink down a lot more. Defense was much easier back then. Also, Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen helped as well as John Stockton and Karl Malone. Those guys all transcended the game. AD transcends the game, but he doesn't have a side kick who would be considered the best ever at something else.
Lebron James and Dwayne wade transcended the game, they are a lot different than AD and Jrue or Tyreke. IM not saying we need a center who is ridiculously good, we just need one who isn't a negative on offense and a neutral on defense. He is a positive in rebounding. I think a center that could play with AD a little will open things up so much for AD, tyreke and Jrue, and make the inside out game a lot easier for EG. That is all
tyson chandler
I don't know how I can be more clear. I am saying that it is easy to point to all the things he does wrong, but it is hard to figure out who we get instead.
I also feel like there is some exaggeration here. Case in point, "He travels a lot". No, he doesn't. 0.4 travels per game. That is not "a lot".
At this point the microscope is so focused on Asik, and when you dislike a guy you tend to remember all the bad plays and forget the good ones. Is he great? Nope. But if he were to walk, I do not feel like this team could secure an upgrade this summer.
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