Pelicans finalizing trade for Asik

[RaisingTheBar]

I'm telling you, Rivers can get you around 25-30, just trust me

I'll take your word for it lol. Question is do we just buy 1 and possibly get a higher pick that 25?

[NMThreeMVP]

Can you be more specific? is there a starting point for reference? Just in general I would have taken my time and build the team via the draft.

Going back to 2012 offseason. I'm curious to how you would have done this, and whether or not you think we'd be further along than we are now. And I assume, given hindsight, you can make all the correct picks and signings.

I'm just saying... of the teams that were in similar positions to us in 2012, I'm not sure if any of them are closer than we are to being a playoff team, have a better outlook going forward, and are closer to being a contending team.

[Rafa Brazil]

And what about that rumor of the Pels trying to acquire a first rounder?? Would it be the missing thing to complete another deal and get the Asik deal done?

[RekeHavoc]

I'm guessing 3.2mil is the going rate for 1st rounders?? I saw the tweet but just didn't get the 3.2 number.

That's the maximum amount of money a team can use in trades.

[NOLA_Dave]

How the Pelicans are aiming high with Omer Asik
http://www.thescore.com/news/527601

[RaisingTheBar]

That's the maximum amount of money a team can use in trades.

I get that. I guess I'm wondering if it will take the whole 3.2 to get a 1st rounder.

[RekeHavoc]

I get that. I guess I'm wondering if it will take the whole 3.2 to get a 1st rounder.

Not sure what the going rate is, but I think the main point was that we have the full 3.2 to use. I could see us buying a pick.

[RaisingTheBar]

Not sure what the going rate is, but I think the main point was that we have the full 3.2 to use. I could see us buying a pick.

Since there are supposedly quite a few teams looking to get rid of theirs I can see that as well.

[Schmide234]

Going back to 2012 offseason. I'm curious to how you would have done this, and whether or not you think we'd be further along than we are now. And I assume, given hindsight, you can make all the correct picks and signings.

I'm just saying... of the teams that were in similar positions to us in 2012, I'm not sure if any of them are closer than we are to being a playoff team, have a better outlook going forward, and are closer to being a contending team.

Yea I'm on the same page as you.

Also @da ThRONe, the reason you build from the draft is to try and obtain your cornerstone player. We got that with our very first draft in Anthony Davis. After that most of those picks are going to end up being pretty useless if you truly did get a great player. The reason teams like Cleveland and Milwakee have been stuck building through the draft is because they keep getting bad players and are stuck drafting high and getting low return. Once you have your cornerstone you move forward considering yourself a contender and building around that.

Only team where this isn't the case is OKC where they had a series of phenomenal picks. Most teams don't get so lucky.

[MichaelMcNamara]

If you get a 1st round pick, that comes with a cap hold for 100% of its slotted amount. This is why I was keen on getting a 2nd round pick - no cap hold.

Couldn't just do Rivers for a 1st and then slid Asik -would still be short, unless you also got rid of Ajinca's guaranteed deal. But you can do Austin for a high 2nd this year and a future 2nd and be fine. And with Ford tweeting that a lot of guys taken between 20 and 30 will be draft and stash guys, you might be able to get the same player at 33 as 23

[da ThRONe]

Going back to 2012 offseason. I'm curious to how you would have done this, and whether or not you think we'd be further along than we are now. And I assume, given hindsight, you can make all the correct picks and signings.

I'm just saying... of the teams that were in similar positions to us in 2012, I'm not sure if any of them are closer than we are to being a playoff team, have a better outlook going forward, and are closer to being a contending team.

I think anybody that is familiar with my post the last 3 years or so will tell you I'm equally as opinionate before. I have laid out at each stage what it is I would have done differently starting with the Eric Gordon situation. If you truly interested you can go back and check if you really think I'm using the power of hindsight. I even made a thread assuming the role of GM last offseason. Dig it up if you like.

[da ThRONe]

Yea I'm on the same page as you.

Also @da ThRONe, the reason you build from the draft is to try and obtain your cornerstone player. We got that with our very first draft in Anthony Davis. After that most of those picks are going to end up being pretty useless if you truly did get a great player. The reason teams like Cleveland and Milwakee have been stuck building through the draft is because they keep getting bad players and are stuck drafting high and getting low return. Once you have your cornerstone you move forward considering yourself a contender and building around that.

Only team where this isn't the case is OKC where they had a series of phenomenal picks. Most teams don't get so lucky.

Same as I've told MVP if you are really interested into my take on things they are well documented here.

edit: Also I don't see Davis as the best player on a title team so there's that.

[lowlife]

Hi,
As a Turkish NBA Fan, i’ve watched almost all games of Omer in last 2 years, i can say few things about him:

Lets start with negatives:
- He is one of the worst offensive center (in starters) in the league.
- He doesn’t have any go-to moves.
- His hands are terrible.
- His post up game is very bad.

Positives:
- I’m not joking, i think he is the best defensive center in the league. Yes, he is not atlethic but he is so smart on positioning.
- He is hard worker.
- He knows he is limited offensively so doesn’t demand the ball.
- He is great one-on-one defender. I haven’t seen anyone dominating him in 2 years.
- He loves the game and wants to play so bad.

[RaisingTheBar]

Hi,
As a Turkish NBA Fan, i’ve watched almost all games of Omer in last 2 years, i can say few things about him:

Lets start with negatives:
- He is one of the worst offensive center (in starters) in the league.
- He doesn’t have any go-to moves.
- His hands are terrible.
- His post up game is very bad.

Positives:
- I’m not joking, i think he is the best defensive center in the league. Yes, he is not atlethic but he is so smart on positioning.
- He is hard worker.
- He knows he is limited offensively so doesn’t demand the ball.
- He is great one-on-one defender. I haven’t seen anyone dominating him in 2 years.
- He loves the game and wants to play so bad.

Thanks for your insight, it is well appreciated!

[MichaelMcNamara]

Hi,
As a Turkish NBA Fan, i’ve watched almost all games of Omer in last 2 years, i can say few things about him:

Lets start with negatives:
- He is one of the worst offensive center (in starters) in the league.
- He doesn’t have any go-to moves.
- His hands are terrible.
- His post up game is very bad.

Positives:
- I’m not joking, i think he is the best defensive center in the league. Yes, he is not atlethic but he is so smart on positioning.
- He is hard worker.
- He knows he is limited offensively so doesn’t demand the ball.
- He is great one-on-one defender. I haven’t seen anyone dominating him in 2 years.
- He loves the game and wants to play so bad.

I agree with this. Wouldn't call him one of the worst offensive starters in league. There are a lot of starting centers with no offensive game, and we just had maybe the worst of all time. But you are right - no go to move, which is fine for us. Very good at running the P&R however. Again, way better than what we had last few years.

The defense and the intangibles will win everyone over here.

[N.O.Bronco]

Yea I'm on the same page as you.

Also @da ThRONe, the reason you build from the draft is to try and obtain your cornerstone player. We got that with our very first draft in Anthony Davis. After that most of those picks are going to end up being pretty useless if you truly did get a great player. The reason teams like Cleveland and Milwakee have been stuck building through the draft is because they keep getting bad players and are stuck drafting high and getting low return. Once you have your cornerstone you move forward considering yourself a contender and building around that.

Only team where this isn't the case is OKC where they had a series of phenomenal picks. Most teams don't get so lucky.

You need more then one cornerstone to be competitive. Dallas is a rare example where they only had one legit superstar and even then Chandler was playing like the best defensive player in the league those playoffs and the rest of them team had career games at key times, all led by a top 5 coach.

This isn't to say our method won't be successful but giving away draft picks like candy can be disastrous. Go look at that Bill Simmons article revisiting the previous drafts. Lots of great talent is found in the draft outside of the top ten and even into the second round. A pick is an asset. For instance look at the pick we gave up for Jerryd Bayless. It turned into number 18 in that draft. At 18 guys like Kenneth Faried and Chandler Parsons were still on the board. The later of which we talk about on here constantly as being the perfect SF for our team. We gave that opportunity up for a temporary rental.

Don't just try and arrogantly dismiss others who put a value on draft picks and other means of building their roster, because there is good reasoning behind a lot of what people are saying. The spurs wouldn't be where they are today if they dumped their draft picks for role players to put around Duncan instead of taking a risk on guys like Parker, Leonard and Ginoboli.

[Sujaguar00]

Can you be more specific? is there a starting point for reference? Just in general I would have taken my time and build the team via the draft.

I gotcha, so no signing Ryno, no trade for Jrue and no sign and trade for 'Reke? The OKC or Spurs model?

[da ThRONe]

You need more then one cornerstone to be competitive. Dallas is a rare example where they only had one legit superstar and even then Chandler was playing like the best defensive player in the league those playoffs and the rest of them team had career games at key times, all led by a top 5 coach.

This isn't to say our method won't be successful but giving away draft picks like candy can be disastrous. Go look at that Bill Simmons article revisiting the previous drafts. Lots of great talent is found in the draft outside of the top ten and even into the second round. A pick is an asset. For instance look at the pick we gave up for Jerryd Bayless. It turned into number 18 in that draft. At 18 guys like Kenneth Faried and Chandler Parsons were still on the board. The later of which we talk about on here ad nauseous as being the perfect SF for our team. We have that opportunity up for a temporary rental.

Don't just try and arrogantly dismiss others who put a value on draft picks and other means of building their roster, because there is good reasoning behind a lot of what people are saying.

Of the final four teams 3 of their core's were at least 75% drafted players by their respective team.

OKC-Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka 100%
IND- Hibbert/George/West/Stevenson 75%
SAS-Duncan/Ginobili/Parker/Leonard 100%
MIA- Wade/Bosh/James 33%

[Eman5805]

It is physically impossible to be worse than Steimsma. Maybe he's as bad, but you don't get worse than him. Right in that Brenden Haywood sweet spot.



I mean, sweat spot.

[kclaboy504]

Same as I've told MVP if you are really interested into my take on things they are well documented here.

edit: Also I don't see Davis as the cornerstone player so there's that.

please explain why you don't.

[RaisingTheBar]

Of the final four teams 3 of their core's were at least 75% drafted players by their respective team.

OKC-Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka 100%
IND- Hibbert/George/West/Stevenson 75%
SAS-Duncan/Ginobili/Parker/Leonard 100%
MIA- Wade/Bosh/James 33%

Why just the final 4, Because it proves your point? What about the past 5 champions? What about the last years playoff teams?

[RaisingTheBar]

please explain why you don't.

Don't ask, will get us no where.

[wuggie]

I don't know why some of you guys worry so much about DaThrone's opinion. Why continue to waste so much time trying to change or argue what he thinks when clearly it's not working. Just breathe and recite this(if you're a believer):

"God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."

Woosahh...Can we get back to the draft now? Lol

[kclaboy504]

Of the final four teams 3 of their core's were at least 75% drafted players by their respective team.

OKC-Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka 100%
IND- Hibbert/George/West/Stevenson 75%
SAS-Duncan/Ginobili/Parker/Leonard 100%
MIA- Wade/Bosh/James 33%

of the 16 playoff teams how many teams "cores' were all drafted by that team?

[da ThRONe]

I gotcha, so no signing Ryno, no trade for Jrue and no sign and trade for 'Reke? The OKC or Spurs model?

Not necessary any teams model. You can't realistically think it can be done the same exact way as any other team. However I would start with the draft for our core players then fill in on any misses through FA and trade with the cap space having a core of rookie contracts allow.