Using the Stretch Provision on Eric Gordon

[kclaboy504]

I did some digging because I was curious if we stretched Gordon's contract what would happen if another team signed him. Apparently it still works as a normal waiver. Here's the quote to explain it:

"If another team signs a player who has cleared waivers, the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money it still owes the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount. This is called the right of set-off. This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it does not have to be an NBA team. The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead)."

So basically we waive Gordon and stretch his contract for 3 years at just over 5m/yr (5.17) hit. If he signs a 5m/yr 3 yr deal then we'd take 5m minus the vet min (let's round to 750k). Gives us 4.25m and then divide that by 2. Meaning we could take 2.12m off his cap hit.

I honestly feel there's a good chance that Gordon could get a 5m/yr deal. So now we look at his cap hit as 3m/yr for 3 years. To me that is completely worth it. If we can't trade him for an expiring then I'd be very careful about what I'd be willing to take back especially when his cap hit will be reduced when he signs to another team. After doing the research and see what options we have, I feel MUCH more confident that we will be able to get a great player in 2015.

Good post. I was going to ask about this right here.

[luigi modelo]

this was a good read! You should also have added what Mythrol added afterward. I think it's an important consideration and you could have done that in paragraph without making it boring.

[MichaelMcNamara]

Noted. Next time I will get more into things like this. Thought I was the only cap nerd who cared.

Will do moving forward.

[Jabberwalker]

Another EJ trade proposal:
Lakers get: Puddin and Peirre
Nola gets: Nash and sign and trade Jordan Hill

I know that Hill mainly defends PFs and isn't the type of player that Dell wants as a C but his rebounding is great and he's played a lot of C this year due to Diantoni small ball. We buy out Nash's 9 Million. He will probably get signed for a minimum deal back in Phx or the Clippers or maybe even the Lakers again since I know he wants to stay in/near LA for his family. His contract clears at the end of the season and we upgrade our Center position.

I know its a stretch but here is why I think LA might do something like that. You need to sell wins or hope to your fanbase. One would think that at this point the Lakers know what they are. They have some cap space to go after some big names this offseason but there isn't much of a draw to LA anymore. If (more like when) they miss out on Melo and Bron there aren't any big names left. Who could they show to their fanbase as the hope of the Lakers? Gordon fits the role. He's a comboguard and I doubt Diantoni would hesitate putting he and Kobe together. Their fans love the Gordon they once knew and think all he needs is a change of scenery and some guidance by Kobe. This allows them to do a sneaky rebuild by putting butts in seats, getting rid of the player that the visceral Lakers fans hate the most right now in Nash, and will actually give them more production than Nash will while allowing fans to say "if only we were healthy".

Maybe? Possibly? Please?
What's funny is that at the beginning of the season when we were dropping games we were supposed to win Gordon looked like the most interested player to me. He would demand the ball and try to carry the team when no one else looked interested. Often times this resulted in him doing well and Monty pulling him. After only a month or so he fell back into his usual malaise of looking like he was going through the motions. Gerry V calls him a hunter. If so, he's to disinterested to ever shoot anything.

That was a terrible metaphor. I just hope that he's gone. I'm sick of his attitude, I'm sick of the what-ifs, and I'm sick of his contract. There are only a couple contracts in the league I wouldn't take on instead of his. I love the stretch provision idea. Honestly if that's what it takes for us to get any of the 3&D Small forwards or rebounding and defensive centers then I think we should do it.

[Mythrol]

Noted. Next time I will get more into things like this. Thought I was the only cap nerd who cared.

Will do moving forward.

I think you might be right about your general readership on BBS, but certainly for people that are active forum members, we're going to be super deep into that stuff. It was still a great find on your part about the stretch deal. I'm pretty sure everyone had forgotten about it in the new CBA since it hadn't been used yet.

You have given us all hope MM. You can sleep well tonight.

[Mythrol]

Another EJ trade proposal:
Lakers get: Puddin and Peirre
Nola gets: Nash and sign and trade Jordan Hill

I know that Hill mainly defends PFs and isn't the type of player that Dell wants as a C but his rebounding is great and he's played a lot of C this year due to Diantoni small ball. We buy out Nash's 9 Million. He will probably get signed for a minimum deal back in Phx or the Clippers or maybe even the Lakers again since I know he wants to stay in/near LA for his family. His contract clears at the end of the season and we upgrade our Center position.

I know its a stretch but here is why I think LA might do something like that. You need to sell wins or hope to your fanbase. One would think that at this point the Lakers know what they are. They have some cap space to go after some big names this offseason but there isn't much of a draw to LA anymore. If (more like when) they miss out on Melo and Bron there aren't any big names left. Who could they show to their fanbase as the hope of the Lakers? Gordon fits the role. He's a comboguard and I doubt Diantoni would hesitate putting he and Kobe together. Their fans love the Gordon they once knew and think all he needs is a change of scenery and some guidance by Kobe. This allows them to do a sneaky rebuild by putting butts in seats, getting rid of the player that the visceral Lakers fans hate the most right now in Nash, and will actually give them more production than Nash will while allowing fans to say "if only we were healthy".

Maybe? Possibly? Please?
What's funny is that at the beginning of the season when we were dropping games we were supposed to win Gordon looked like the most interested player to me. He would demand the ball and try to carry the team when no one else looked interested. Often times this resulted in him doing well and Monty pulling him. After only a month or so he fell back into his usual malaise of looking like he was going through the motions. Gerry V calls him a hunter. If so, he's to disinterested to ever shoot anything.

That was a terrible metaphor. I just hope that he's gone. I'm sick of his attitude, I'm sick of the what-ifs, and I'm sick of his contract. There are only a couple contracts in the league I wouldn't take on instead of his. I love the stretch provision idea. Honestly if that's what it takes for us to get any of the 3&D Small forwards or rebounding and defensive centers then I think we should do it.

Won't work. The Lakers plan on being a huge player in the 2015 FA market. They won't take any deal that is so loaded going into 2015. You could try and sell them on Gordon opting out, but I doubt they buy it.

[Kumar]

Class of 2015 big men are stacked. Headlined by the likes of Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Roy Hibbert, Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, Deandre Jordan, Asik, Varejao, Millsap, Al Jeff. Wing players like Danny Green, Wes Matthews, Jeff Green.

RFAs include Kawhii, Klay, Jimmy Butler, Shumpert, Draymond Green.

Plenty of role players and shooters available too like Koufos, Perkins, Nick Collison, Jared Dudley, Dorrel Wright, Brandon Wright, Chris Copeland, and Brandon Bass.

[donato]

Would we be better off to trade Gordon and a future first rounder for scraps/expirings?

[Mythrol]

Would we be better off to trade Gordon and a future first rounder for scraps/expirings?

If that's an option, yeah I'd do it. But the question is; is that an option?

[MichaelMcNamara]

People always say: If X guy can get traded, then anybody can get traded.

But those guys (Joe Johnson, Bargnani, etc.) are usually at least on the court, so teams can sell themselves on that guy. I don't know how a team sells themself on Gordon. The contract is bad, he is always hurt, AND he really doesn't play that well when he is on the court. He is basically Amare, except Amare only has one year left on his deal so I dont think it is as bad.

[BP225]

The guys we've been most recently discussing as trade targets, Chandler and Bargnani, played fewer games this year than Gordon and easily have as spotty an injury history as Gordon. You've also mentioned taking back Felton because they want to dump him. I think the real question is can New York get more out of Gordon than Bargnani or Chandler. If they think they can, that's one of the few situations where trading Gordon is a fair value for both sides.

[kclaboy504]

People always say: If X guy can get traded, then anybody can get traded.

But those guys (Joe Johnson, Bargnani, etc.) are usually at least on the court, so teams can sell themselves on that guy. I don't know how a team sells themself on Gordon. The contract is bad, he is always hurt, AND he really doesn't play that well when he is on the court. He is basically Amare, except Amare only has one year left on his deal so I dont think it is as bad.

I agree. I honestly don't see a worse contract at this point. It's pathetic

[Mythrol]

I agree. I honestly don't see a worse contract at this point. It's pathetic

The horrible thing is, if you look at Gordon's stats they're basically the same as his clipper days. The only difference is he's taking less shots here and this year he got to the free throw line less than usual. He should have never been given a max. I honestly could not hate the Suns more than I do now.

[kclaboy504]

The horrible thing is, if you look at Gordon's stats they're basically the same as his clipper days. The only difference is he's taking less shots here and this year he got to the free throw line less than usual. He should have never been given a max. I honestly could not hate the Suns more than I do now.

He was a lot more explosive in his clipper days and IU days. He WAS a lethal scorer at 1 point as well as an above avg defender. Now he's just straight paper mesh mixed in with poo. I agree he was NEVER a max contract player tho. 8-10m per at most.

[MichaelMcNamara]

I agree. I honestly don't see a worse contract at this point. It's pathetic

Only one I see is Gerald Wallace. I think that if Wallace hit the market this summer, he would get 2-3 mil per year offers tops. I got Gordon as the second worst contract in the NBA heading into next year.

[IamQuailman]

Would his player option count as a year or not?

[MichaelMcNamara]

Would his player option count as a year or not?

It has to for now. Until he signs something saying that he is opting out, you have to assume it is a two year deal.

I personally believe that if he stays healthy next year, he opts out, but what are the odds that guy finishes a year healthy?

[IamQuailman]

So then it would be stretched out over 5 years? Not 3?

[IamQuailman]

Nm may e I misunderstood the premise of when we would be using the stretch option... In the last year if he opted in? Or are people talking about it this offseason?

[Mythrol]

He was a lot more explosive in his clipper days and IU days. He WAS a lethal scorer at 1 point as well as an above avg defender. Now he's just straight paper mesh mixed in with poo. I agree he was NEVER a max contract player tho. 8-10m per at most.

A lot of people say that, but his stats just don't show it. He's actually had a better year this year compared to last year. He shot a career high % from 3pt. When you look at minute equalized stats per game (I'm not counting his 9 game season) he had his best season for rebounds, more assist than every clipper season except 1, his highest number of steals, he shot within 2% of his FG % as a clipper, he averaged more points than every clipper season except 1 (but he took 2 less shots per game this season than that one). His DRtg is equal to or less than 2 our of his 3 Clipper seasons and the one Clipper season was better by 1 point. His FG % from 10-16ft, 16-3pt, 3pt+ is either the best of his career or better than all but 1 season, his FG % from 0-3ft out is within 1% of 2/3 Clipper years, in his one poor shooting area 3-10ft he took the least shots from there in all but 2 seasons. His average shot distance from goal is the lowest of his career. He also played the most games of his career this year except his rookie season.

The biggest difference is over the past 3 seasons he averaged 5.9, 7.5, 6.3 FTA a game, and this season he averaged 3.9. His usage is the lowest it's been since his first 2 years in the league, and he is attempting 2 shots less per game than over the past 3 seasons.

He might be a slightly different player but his production is the same or better in almost every area than every other season except one and in some areas even better than that season. This leads me to believe No Gordon ever should have been given the Max. The fact that he got it while coming off of a major injury leads me to believe that people were trying to project him as continuing to improve when giving him that contract and instead he has plateaued. He should have gotten a Curry type deal, and that's why I hate the Suns so much. But people acting like he is less of a player now are mistaken, he's the same. He just was never worth it.

[AUSSIE_PELICAN]

Nm may e I misunderstood the premise of when we would be using the stretch option... In the last year if he opted in? Or are people talking about it this offseason?

No in his final year.
There is still a small chance he is traded next season (2014/15).
If he opts in season 2015/16 then the provision SHOULD be activated.
This will then start in 2015/16 and end in 2017/18 at approx. 5M per year.

[kclaboy504]

A lot of people say that, but his stats just don't show it. He's actually had a better year this year compared to last year. He shot a career high % from 3pt. When you look at minute equalized stats per game (I'm not counting his 9 game season) he had his best season for rebounds, more assist than every clipper season except 1, his highest number of steals, he shot within 2% of his FG % as a clipper, he averaged more points than every clipper season except 1 (but he took 2 less shots per game this season than that one). His DRtg is equal to or less than 2 our of his 3 Clipper seasons and the one Clipper season was better by 1 point. His FG % from 10-16ft, 16-3pt, 3pt+ is either the best of his career or better than all but 1 season, his FG % from 0-3ft out is within 1% of 2/3 Clipper years, in his one poor shooting area 3-10ft he took the least shots from there in all but 2 seasons. His average shot distance from goal is the lowest of his career. He also played the most games of his career this year except his rookie season.

The biggest difference is over the past 3 seasons he averaged 5.9, 7.5, 6.3 FTA a game, and this season he averaged 3.9. His usage is the lowest it's been since his first 2 years in the league, and he is attempting 2 shots less per game than over the past 3 seasons.

He might be a slightly different player but his production is the same or better in almost every area than every other season except one and in some areas even better than that season. This leads me to believe No Gordon ever should have been given the Max. The fact that he got it while coming off of a major injury leads me to believe that people were trying to project him as continuing to improve when giving him that contract and instead he has plateaued. He should have gotten a Curry type deal, and that's why I hate the Suns so much. But people acting like he is less of a player now are mistaken, he's the same. He just was never worth it.

Yea I already said he was never a max guy but he isn't the same player he was in his IU and early clipper days. I watched him his entire career and he has def last some athleticism and has a much slower first step.

[demiurg]

Lakers might use it on Nash this summer. Otherwise, it hasn't been used yet - mostly because teams could use the amnesty, which is better, but we can't use that on Gordon.

And just to be clear, there will still be $15 mil in dead money, it will just be spread out over three years as opposed to all being on the books in 2015-16

Beasley (PHX), Rip Hamilton (CHI) and Fab Melo (MEM) were all stretched.

[All Metro]

We have to get rid of this clown

[MichaelMcNamara]

Beasley (PHX), Rip Hamilton (CHI) and Fab Melo (MEM) were all stretched.

Beasley's deal is real weird, a combination of a few things happened there. One, they owed him $9 mil but he took a 7 million dollar buyout. Six mil was guaranteed in the first, 3 mil in year 2. 1.33 mil came off year 1, 667 K came off year 2. They let the entire year 1 hang on the cap and stretched Year 2.

Theoretically, the Pels can do this with Gordon. Plus they could get the 'set off' that we talked out earlier. Lets say that Pels buy him out for $20 mil this summer.Then, Let's say he signs for $6 million per year somewhere else. He would count for 10 mil each year minus 2.5 mil per year because of the 'set off'. That takes us to 7.5 mil. Allow it all to count this year, then stretch the final year into three.

So, his cap hits would be: 7.5, 2.5, 2.5, 2.5. Would people do this? I would in a heartbeat!

Hamilton was a little different too, as only 1 million of his 5 million was guaranteed. They waived him and stretched that 1 mil over 3 years. And yes, you are right, Melo was stretched by Grizz after they acquired him. Forgot about that.