Official Fire Monty Thread

[Kurgan]

You can talk about his choices of who to send on the court, i won't argue, but when we didn't have youngsters and people who have yet not understood what a defensive rotation is, we were not so horrid on defence. We were fourth in the league with points allowed per game in 2010/11, 12th in opponent 3 fg%, 13th in opponent fg%. Much the same the next year in allowed fg% but second best overall for opponent 3 fg% allowed and 7th in ppg allowed.

This year we are 4th worst in fg%, 13th in 3 fg% and 4th worst in points.

Something doesn't add up, don't you think? The coach is the same, the players have changed, so how could we be a good to more than good team defensively then and suck so much now?

[The JNR]

But if you don't have the players to do your scheme, do you just shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, we're not good enough"? Or do you try something, anything else to see if you can get better?

It just seems that we know our limitations but are ignoring them.

[kinglio21093]

You can talk about his choices of who to send on the court, i won't argue, but when we didn't have youngsters and people who have yet not understood what a defensive rotation is, we were not so horrid on defence. We were fourth in the league with points allowed per game in 2010/11, 12th in opponent 3 fg%, 13th in opponent fg%. Much the same the next year in allowed fg% but second best overall for opponent 3 fg% allowed and 7th in ppg allowed.

This year we are 4th worst in fg%, 13th in 3 fg% and 4th worst in points.

Something doesn't add up, don't you think? The coach is the same, the players have changed, so how could we be a good to more than good team defensively then and suck so much now?

Exactly. That first year we had Monty, we were a brick wall on defense. Everyone always highly touted our team for being such a solid defensive presence. I remember that game when we played Sacramento, we were lucky to score a basket. I think we shot 35% from the field and STILL won. Our offense was the problem then. We couldn't score AT ALL, and that was also when CP3 pretty much gave up and didn't even try to score the ball. Monty is clearly a good coach. I do think he's been put through tons of bad luck since arriving here, even when we had CP and West. Very unfairly criticized around here.

[RaisingTheBar]

Why isn't Withey getting more minutes? Defensive struggles in practice or something? He's only played in 19 games this season and only 5 minutes in those games. I doubt he is learning much sitting on the bench. Especially in this lost season Miller, Rivers, Withey all need more minutes.

[msw2024]

Exactly. That first year we had Monty, we were a brick wall on defense. Everyone always highly touted our team for being such a solid defensive presence. I remember that game when we played Sacramento, we were lucky to score a basket. I think we shot 35% from the field and STILL won. Our offense was the problem then. We couldn't score AT ALL, and that was also when CP3 pretty much gave up and didn't even try to score the ball. Monty is clearly a good coach. I do think he's been put through tons of bad luck since arriving here, even when we had CP and West. Very unfairly criticized around here.

A great coach can change/tweak their system to fit the players on the team. Monty doesn't change his system when our players obviously can't run it. I think he should be fired because his defense doesn't fit our team. I don't think he is a bad coach overall. He is not the right coach for our team and current roster.

[Kurgan]

I think MM talked about this a lot. These guys are young and monty isn't looking to put a defensive scheme that works better now. He's looking for something that needs a lot of growing pains (especially since with anderson, gordon, aminu...it's not like those guys are top notch defenders, especially in rotation D) but that, if properly learnt, will actually make this defence a whole lot better than something installed now to work just now. I don't know if that was the same system he used with the older guys but it could very well be, let's remember that while perhaps not superb on iso defence, mek, ariza, cp etc were vets, who understood the game, and could adapt and play good team defence. These guys are young and their defensive iq is not exactly off the charts. It takes one man to lose his man to make the whole D collapse and look silly, and it's not exactly improbable with the team we have now.

I'm not saying what monty is doing is the right thing to do, just explaining what i think he is doing. Honestly, if the results would really be better in the long run, i'd say hell yes, let's be crap now to be studs later. But i'm not even sure how long monty will stay here and not even sure how much he really cares about defence when he puts a black hole like roberts on the field so long. Well, we shall see

[Bongzilla]

Only jrue and reke are new players who have seen substantial minutes. Many players have been in this system for a couple of years.
Stop blaming players, players need to be put in the correct position. Our coach has only proven one thing in 3.5 years, and that is that HE DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO PUT HIS PLAYERS IN A POSITION TO WIN.

fire all employees or fire the manager??????? It's that simple

[hesterhu]

He just doesn't know what are guards used for & what are guards supposed to play like.

[fullcourtpress]

Wow...a lot of pages.

Keep Monty guys. Noone would do too much better. Next year its on

[donato]

I don't see how we can keep him honestly. Injuries or not, he just doesn't belong here (or anywhere in the NBA as a head coach). He just seems really in over his head to me. I know some will disagree and think he will be here next year, but I really don't think he will.

[504ByrdGang]

You can talk about his choices of who to send on the court, i won't argue, but when we didn't have youngsters and people who have yet not understood what a defensive rotation is, we were not so horrid on defence. We were fourth in the league with points allowed per game in 2010/11, 12th in opponent 3 fg%, 13th in opponent fg%. Much the same the next year in allowed fg% but second best overall for opponent 3 fg% allowed and 7th in ppg allowed.

This year we are 4th worst in fg%, 13th in 3 fg% and 4th worst in points.

Something doesn't add up, don't you think? The coach is the same, the players have changed, so how could we be a good to more than good team defensively then and suck so much now?

We were 4th allowed be cause we played our offense at a snails pace.

[kinglio21093]

I don't see how we can keep him honestly. Injuries or not, he just doesn't belong here (or anywhere in the NBA as a head coach). He just seems really in over his head to me. I know some will disagree and think he will be here next year, but I really don't think he will.

I can understand people who say he doesn't fit as the Pels head coach. But to say he doesn't belong in the NBA is just spiteful of you.

[donato]

I can understand people who say he doesn't fit as the Pels head coach. But to say he doesn't belong in the NBA is just spiteful of you.

I said as a HEAD COACH. I just don't think he's a number one guy. Great number two. Different skill-set. Maybe you're seeing something different? Do tell...

[Hercule]

I can understand people who say he doesn't fit as the Pels head coach. But to say he doesn't belong in the NBA is just spiteful of you.

Nothing he wrote is spiteful. Monty Williams is an assistant coach who was promoted way, way too soon, and I don't think we can afford to wait another decade for him to get where he needs to be to help us contend.

He doesn't fit this team at all. It's a young team, and he doesn't seem to particularly like/trust younger players. He's trying to install a defensive system that thus far seems too complex for our current players to grasp. On offense, well. We don't seem to have a consistent system, to my untrained eye.

I would just like a coach who doesn't seem to rotate between confusion and boredom while coaching. I just want a coach who fills me with the barest minimum of confidence. Going into a game with Monty feels like walking in with a 10 point handicap.

[kclaboy504]

I can understand people who say he doesn't fit as the Pels head coach. But to say he doesn't belong in the NBA is just spiteful of you.

Nice way to leave out AS A HEAD COACH. Smh.

[kclaboy504]

Nothing he wrote is spiteful. Monty Williams is an assistant coach who was promoted way, way too soon, and I don't think we can afford to wait another decade for him to get where he needs to be to help us contend.

He doesn't fit this team at all. It's a young team, and he doesn't seem to particularly like/trust younger players. He's trying to install a defensive system that thus far seems too complex for our current players to grasp. On offense, well. We don't seem to have a consistent system, to my untrained eye.

I would just like a coach who doesn't seem to rotate between confusion and boredom while coaching. I just want a coach who fills me with the barest minimum of confidence. Going into a game with Monty feels like walking in with a 10 point handicap.

This. Very well said as I feel the same way. Love the guy. He's a great guy at heart and want nothing but the best for him. When we have a top offense in the league and we are a bottom 5 team record wise. It's time for change. Unless tanking for our top 5 pick was the dells master scheme all along to hose philly. Then keep Monty and dell cause I love it. Lol..for real tho. I think I've come to grips that Monty will have at least another year as coach of this team. I think in a right he deserves it. He's had some very bad luck with this organization. I think he needs to learn to trust the younger players more cause it gets to a point where it's just ridiculous. Withey being my main concern. He's shown nothing but being very productive in the small minuscule amount of time he does get. Don't quite understand that one. If we wind up bottom 3 then this was the tank plan all along. They are geniuses. They constructed this team that is tank capable in Roberts,steisthma, miller, rivers, and smith to get extended playing time and support our key guys. Now key guys are missing big portions of the season. I mean is this really our luck or is Ryno,Evans,holiday all down for the tank? If so They are true team players lol.

[Hercule]

This. Very well said as I feel the same way. Love the guy. He's a great guy at heart and want nothing but the best for him. When we have a top offense in the league and we are a bottom 5 team record wise. It's time for change. Unless tanking for our top 5 pick was the dells master scheme all along to hose philly. Then keep Monty and dell cause I love it. Lol..for real tho. I think I've come to grips that Monty will have at least another year as coach of this team. I think in a right he deserves it. He's had some very bad luck with this organization. I think he needs to learn to trust the younger players more cause it gets to a point where it's just ridiculous. Withey being my main concern. He's shown nothing but being very productive in the small minuscule amount of time he does get. Don't quite understand that one. If we wind up bottom 3 then this was the tank plan all along. They are geniuses. They constructed this team that is tank capable in Roberts,steisthma, miller, rivers, and smith to get extended playing time and support our key guys. Now key guys are missing big portions of the season. I mean is this really our luck or is Ryno,Evans,holiday all down for the tank? If so They are true team players lol.

lol If we get a top 1-3 pick, then Roberts' jersey needs to be retired and hung from the rafters.

[donato]

The players will play. They're not thinking about tanking. But I think the brass beyond Monty aren't stupid enough to let him coach next year. I could be wrong, but the whole thing reminds me a bit of whether or not Haslett would be fired when he was. And Monty has never had Haslett's success. I think there must be people high up that can pull the cord on this debacle. I don't know. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Particularly if we end up with the 6th or 7th pick and keep Monty haha.

[PolishFan]

Nothing he wrote is spiteful. Monty Williams is an assistant coach who was promoted way, way too soon, and I don't think we can afford to wait another decade for him to get where he needs to be to help us contend.

He doesn't fit this team at all. It's a young team, and he doesn't seem to particularly like/trust younger players. He's trying to install a defensive system that thus far seems too complex for our current players to grasp. On offense, well. We don't seem to have a consistent system, to my untrained eye.

I would just like a coach who doesn't seem to rotate between confusion and boredom while coaching. I just want a coach who fills me with the barest minimum of confidence. Going into a game with Monty feels like walking in with a 10 point handicap.

exactly. has the youngest team and doesn't trust young players. wtf??? i want him gone

[Kujo_Daggs]

Going into a game with Monty feels like walking in with a 10 point handicap.

Just 10? Damn, people give Monty Williams a lot of leeway lol. I swear nearly every game the Pels won this year was based on matchup. Monty's defensive scheme (can I even call it that?) gives up wide open 3s and layups but shuts down midrange shots. We beat the Grizzlies earlier this season because they had almost no 3 point threats so we could sag off and stay closer to the rim. Same goes for Charlotte. Those are the only examples of his defense working well that I can think of.

[AirForce1]

Speaking about 10 points handicap, we're the team who have lost the more games (9) after a lead of 10 points or more.

[DroopyDawg]

LOL! 27 pages for nothin'. Monty is safe guys... he's not going anywhere. As much as some folks hate this guy there are a few things that you can't (or refuse to) understand. This team has talent... but they're YOUNG. The organization understands this, and as much as you want to say that Benson is in a "win-now" mode the fact is the team is still comprised of a bunch of YOUNG players.

Now let's talk about the injuries... is it fair for a coach to get crucified for his coaching when he hasn't had a full roster pretty much since the preseason? This team can't catch a break with all the injuries, and as much as some of you want to dismiss this as fact, the front office realizes we have been playing without a full hand all year. So how would that look to fire Monty with a YOUNG team that's getting killed by injury?

And the last thing that you guys refuse to understand is that coaches around the league praise Monty because his team is competing. Even with all the injuries this team is right there in pretty much every game. That has been Monty's thing for the last few years, that even with minimal talent his team competes. This organization is NOT going to fire the guy for losing close games with a young team crippled with injuries.

I mean its fun to keep bumping this ridiculous thread, but its moot. The dude isn't going anywhere anytime soon. And Benson... while its pockets are DEEP... I don't think he's going to fire a guy whose contract he just extended only to hire somebody else and have to pay 2 different people for a couple/few years. I think that's the one thing that you guys don't think about. Nobody wants to pay 2 salaries for one position.

[Kurgan]

This thread would do saintsreport proud. And that's not a compliment

[Basketball Nate]

Other than being viewed as a great guy, to this day I still don't understand what's so genius or transformational about Monty Williams coaching abilities? His whole coaching existence IMO just seems like it's more hype than substance.

[Eman5805]

Other than being viewed as a great guy, to this day I still don't understand what's so genius or transformational about Monty Williams coaching abilities? His whole coaching existence IMO just seems like it's more hype than substance.

Then you're being very selective and/or really picky with your criteria. Jason Smith went from being a scrub to a rotational player. Vasquez went form scrub to starter. Austin Rivers went from a guy known for not playing any defense to being one of our best defenders. Even Ajinca isn't as horrible with the fouls as he was. Coach K wanted him on the staff. That is no small feat.

Basically, when in the offseason and during the work week, Monty is as good as anyone. But it's when the tip-off starts that his deficiencies are magnified because that's where the 10% of what a coach does as a coach becomes so important. Bad rotations, poor in-game adjustments, he hasn't fully mastered those skills yet. And it makes our team lose down the stretch where more experienced coaches thrive.

There's a lot of substance. It just doesn't matter when you lose games in the last 5 minutes.