I like that idea!Originally Posted by RaisingTheBar
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I like that idea!
Before I make any move with Monty it want to see what moves we make this offseason. If we are able to shed Gordon and bring in depth to give us a competent bench and a 3 and D SF then I'm all for letting Monty have one year to prove himself.
If this is the same team we are going into next year with, I want him gone.
I don't know if I am a Monty "apologist" (Whatever that means), but I definitely am a person who thinks that those who believe that if you just Fire Monty and add this coach or that coach without changes to the roster, you will see similar results.
It seems to me that some Fire Monty people truly believe that firing him is the solution to 90% of the problems. I think this delusion comes from the statement I read all the time that begins with, "With all the talent we have, we should....."
If you were to step out of your fandom and I told you that X Team has the least experience in the league by a big margin, has a 20 year old as its best player, and would lose its ONLY legit 3-point threat for basically the entire season. Oh, and that team has no depth at all. Then, I were to ask you how many games you would pick that team to win, you would say something along the lines of what we will end up winning without even knowing who the coach is.
I have been on the Shaka Smart bandwagon for a while now, because I think he can be the answer long term. But I personally don't think many, if any, coaches could have done much better this year given everything that has happened. The team is 3-9 w/o Ryno. He IS that important when you look at the makeup of this roster.
Monty has several faults, but if you really think that firing him and adding this coach or that coach would help immediately, I think you are mistaken.
@mcnamara247
That's what I'm sayin' right there...
This. And to add on no coach would have the proper time to implement their system. Basketball games are way too close together. The only time you change coaches mid-season is if you want to get worse mid season. I don't think it's productive for this team to make such a radical change now especially with our pick almost certainly going to Philly.
I'm not a fan of where this team is going long term however if anybody should get the 'hook' mid season it's a teams GM. He his the only person at this point that can make us significantly better or worse.
Ok but when you look at the Western Conference there are 2 teams in the playoffs right now; mavericks and suns who we are better than hands down when you look at each individual roster. I've been watching the mavs all year and they are so old and slow, besides Monte Ellis, and at the beginning of the season had no rights to be in the playoffs. Experts had them falling off, had dirk retiring soon, but Rick Carlisle has implemented something else, and that team with a pretty **** poor roster that most mavs fans were throwing up at before the season started is now in the playoffs and looking great. Their roster is not much better than ours, if any and they are rolling by nicely with wins that we should be getting similarly but we just don't have a legitimate coaching scheme. Look at the Phoenix suns, look at their roster, what do you see? I see one of the worst teams in the nba. When comparing our roster with theirs it's unexplainable how and why that team is light years ahead of us with dragic and Bledsoe running the backcourt. Unexplainable until you look solely at coaching and that is what it has come down to. The Phoenix suns, who people thought could actually end up with the number 1 pick are clearly better coached than us. They have a scheme that works, unlike our scheme which leaves more 3 point shooters open than I can handle. Sure there is a reason that Monty was chosen as an assistant to Tom thib in the Olympics, but that reason, defensive strategies or whatever it is, is losing us games. Losing games by a lot to good teams and just losing games to bad teams. This is what I expected with the roster had we not traded Noel and just rolled with what we had last year. I'm not saying Monty is the sole reasons but when things go wrong do you see the look on his face? He doesn't know how to make adjustments.
Also all these players listed are performing significantly better on other teams then when they did with Monty coaching: Robin Lopez, Willie Green, Quincy pondexter, Marcus Thornton, Marco bellineli, Xavier Henry, Carl Landry, Chris kaman, Jarrett jack, hell even jerryd Baylis. Please add to the list bc I know I'm missing a few but man these players have all improved light years since leaving New Orleans, maybe not improved, but they all found the right coach and system to Benefit them. I would take any one of these guys back in a heartbeat by just looking at their names and what they've done recently. However, when I think of their performance and even lack of playing time under Monty, I don't think any one of them would thrive here.
Last edited by MMEmbreno; 01-09-2014 at 09:10 AM.
Well said on both fronts, MMEmbreno. I agree completely.
telling it like it is -- akshun
Again I'm not attached to Monty and I would have prefer to see him go instead of re-signed(along with Dell). However I don't agree that Jack, Landry, Thornton, and Kaman are playing better elsewhere. Everybody else agree 100%. Jarrett and Carl played just as well here as they are on their new teams. Marcus is still just a gunner like he was here. Lastly Chris barely played here and was jerked around so much by the FO it was highly unlikely we were going to get any consistent play out of him.
I wouldn't say Dallas or Phoenix are hands down worse than we are. Dallas has two really good players in Dirk and Ellis and there team parts fit well. As for Phoenix I agree they are coached to their strengths, but they have crazy depth something we don't have and plenty of 3pt shooters.
We have more individual talent, but fit and depth matters especially in the regular season.
Last edited by da ThRONe; 01-09-2014 at 09:34 AM.
Phoenix has less talent and a better record. Don't agree that anybody else does. They have been very impressive for their talent level. Have been lucky with regard to injuries, but still impressive.
But that is the exception. The rule tends to be that talent dictates wins and losses. Again, I have never been able to make the argument that he is a good coach, but if this roster stays exactly the same, the "Fire X Coach" thread will be up in a couple months after Monty goes.
Ok true with Kaman, but he is more than a serviceable big and we lost out and got nothing for him, he's been the best center we've had in a pelicans uniform since I can imagine, yeah that's still bad, but we could've gotten more use out of him, he was an all star at one point. Jack has been playing well, he played extremely well last year with the warriors and is struggling a bit this year finding his role off the bench. Marcus Thornton has yet to find the right team because he has been cancered by us and the kings as far as not being able to fit him into a system. But Thornton was a 40th draft pick who can score 20 a night if he wants to. I'll never forget how mad I used to get seing Monty bench Thornton. His contract isn't too friendly anymore because somebody saw better in him, the kings, similarly to how we saw better in tyreke Evans.
And the thing is, I love Monty as our coach only that he is a players coach, he relates to the players, very rarely yells at them, the players clearly like him for who he is a person on and off the court. However, in the long run do you want that or do you want a coach who will scare the mess out of our players in order to speed up this process. Look at Jason Kidd, complete players coach, I've never seen him demand respect from a player or yell at them. His players respect him but they don't fear him
And that's what I think could be another issue. Look at nick Saban and Greg popovich, the best 2 coaches of their selective sports. They demand, something that Monty doesn't do. Yeah we have a young team but I can remember tony Parker, Manu, Duncan getting interviewed in the early stages of their Careers and they were all and still are frightened of their own coach. So is anybody else who goes to the spurs. That's the one thing that professional sports misses as opposed to youth sports is very demanding and frightening coaches. From first hand experience my JV team in high school was pretty bad but we won most of our games why? Bc our coach would run the heck out of us, chew us out, and install fear into us. That fear turns to performance 95% of the time, and if not performance than I can Gurantee you it will instill at least some effort on our end to defend. I know there's a lot of points here and it's turning into a rant but that's just how I feel. We have a young team with a players coach when we need a coach who will put fear into our players similar to what POP did to Manu Duncan and Parker. Pop still yells at them like they are rookies. Goes to show you what that coaching style can do for any team because I've seen the spurs beat the best teams in the league without their starters(rest). While watching these games POP unleashes his rage several times again and it scares me personally half to death and then random players start performing way past expectations. Do I need to even go through the spurs roster? Pretty unimprressive year in and year out except for their big 3, yet they control the NBA's regular season almost every year.
For every successful coach that coaches using fear, I can name one who is considered more of a players coach. There is no "right way" to coach, otherwise every coach would be doing it.
As for the Spurs, that team is run by the players in the locker room as much as it is by the coaches. There is no presence like that in this locker room. Who is the leader, the alpha, of this team? This has been my question since the weird summer that resulted in drafting AD and resigning Gordon to a max contract. Gordon is the highest paid, but AD is obviously the cornerstone. But will Gordon realize that? Then, Jrue is brought in and the PG is supposed to be the extension of the coach on the floor. So, is he the leader?
Who is it? To me, that is the biggest issue. The pecking order is not set up. Will 23-25 year olds listed to a 20 year old? Does AD have the confidence to call older guys out?
I just have never seen a team put together without a clear pecking order succeed. I would be confused if I were a player.
Yeah we don't have a true leader. We need that vocal guy and we don't have him. Jason smith is the only guy I can think of. Jrue holiday is our leader on the court hands down simply bc he can run the offense or take over the game at will with his driving abilities and that sweet pull up mid range jumper. Eric Gordon is too quiet and is almost in his own shell it seems like. Ryan Anderson is the guy I think needs to step up big time when he comes back as far as a leadership role. He does seem more vocal than others but he's the kind of guy who can issue harsh criticism and nobody will take it the wrong way. But as far as the locker room atmosphere and the spurs having that superior locker room atmosphere, I still think it all comes down to the coaching. It's still a long season never the less and many, including me are maybe to soon to pull the trigger or hit the panic button, but I for one can't handle watching this young talented team lose the way they are when other teams of equal or less talent than us are rolling right along. I do agree we need a true center and then we can base Monty's performance once we aquire a center who can hold it down. But There hasn't been much urgency to require one so until then our defensive scheme will suffer and Monty will be under the microscope.
Jason Smith is the tenured guy and has a great attitude, but you think Tyreke or Gordon listens if Jason Smith gets in their face after they do something dumb and that guy says "Yeah, my bad."
The alpha has to be a guy who has done it in this league in the past at a high level consistantly. Guys respect that. AD wont be that guy for another year or two at the earliest. Meanwhile, the three guards probably already think they fit that criteria because one is on a max contract, one is a former All-Star, and one was a ROY who put up historic rookie stats.
All three guards think it but don't play or live up to the expectations. Not to mention none of them have had a win in season.
we need a coach who's not afraid to yell at players and can fire them up. monty's too friendly which worked well as an assistant and worked well when CP3 would light a fire under his teammates. not anymore
And this is where the problem lies. Of those three does any of those guys say leader? Is either of those three considered high IQ players? These are the things you have to consider when acquiring player whether it's via free agency, trade or draft when guys are primary ball handlers. If we had a leader on this on this team already then it's not as bad. But we didn't. It's why I was so high on Burke leaving Michigan. And it's also why I'm not optimistic going forward.
Did you hear him on his mic'd up session? He kept reassuring them LOL. "It's OK guys... they are making shots"
Has New Orleans done anything right since Monty got here in your eyes? Seriously. I don't think I've seen you say one positive move this team has made and that includes drafting AD.
Burke is going to have more pull than Jrue? Come on that's just crazy. Jrue has been with this team 6 months. Give him time and I have no doubt he will be a leader for us.
Contributor
If you fire Monty now, season is done. Just expect to hold serve as best you can with his assistants taking over. Anyone that thinks no Monty means we win more is...well that assumes our assistants are better than Monty.
A possibility, but not a likely...ability. Likeability?
Contributor
By the sounds of some the season is already done.
Contributor
For some the season ended before it began when we didn't keep our lotto pick in the deepest draft in the history of drafts.
1st what does it matter if I post anything positive? If what I'm saying has logic to it that should be all that matters. I shouldn't have to hold pompom while typing. To answer your question I have said positive things in the past, but IMO most of the recent decisions has been negative ones therefore my comments will reflex those opinions. I have already on many occasions said that Davis is better than I gave him credit for and I said that the Anderson deal was great. If you want to "check someone" maybe you should do a better job following all my post.
As to Burke having more pull can't say anything definitely. However leadership is a skill he showed at UM and his showing it in the league. While Holiday isn't know for his leadership. Burke is a rookie so it's likely that his leadership role grows. Holiday is in his 5th year. Time may very well improve Jrue's leadership skills. However I don't think based off of who Holiday is a person/player will ever make him a great leader. 6 months we've seen people become leaders of teams almost day one. Again I think Burke has had a bigger impact as far as leadership as a rookie than Holiday has as a 5th year player in the same time span.
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