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Thread: Season half way game thread. 9-32

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by P_B_&_G View Post
    What do you think he's worth? What should his next deal look like that's decent value while recognizing the talent that he has?
    I think he's currently worth what he's getting paid - that is, about $35m a year.

    Any contract that starts at $40m+, and then stacks the 8% increases on top of that, is an overpay imo, especially given our horrible cap situation. We just can't afford that.

    And it's not like that's cheap. That's still a lot of money. He's worth a good amount of money. But is he lightyears better than Zion as a player? No, he's worse. Is he more available? Historically yes but as of the last few seasons, honestly not really. Over the last 3 years (24-25, 23-24, 22-23) Ingram's played less than 20 additional games than Zion. They both miss a lot of time. So should BI be making more than Zion? No, not really, and Zion makes $36m this year and then has the annual increases. Why should BI get more? What has he done to earn it? Nothing at all.
    Basketball.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Pelicanidae View Post
    I think he's currently worth what he's getting paid - that is, about $35m a year.

    Any contract that starts at $40m+, and then stacks the 8% increases on top of that, is an overpay imo, especially given our horrible cap situation. We just can't afford that.

    And it's not like that's cheap. That's still a lot of money. He's worth a good amount of money. But is he lightyears better than Zion as a player? No, he's worse. Is he more available? Historically yes but as of the last few seasons, honestly not really. Over the last 3 years (24-25, 23-24, 22-23) Ingram's played less than 20 additional games than Zion. They both miss a lot of time. So should BI be making more than Zion? No, not really, and Zion makes $36m this year and then has the annual increases. Why should BI get more? What has he done to earn it? Nothing at all.
    Interesting. I feel like his talent level and position would put him right in that 40 mil a year mark. Probably a bit more than the team would like to do from a finances point. But in the open market its kind of what he would command. I can say after so many years of not having anyone even remotely close to his talent at his position I am more than happy to keep him on at the 40 or so per, as a starting point. It was literally like either Jamal Mashburn or maybe Peja before Ingram the last time there was similar production on the wing here.

  3. #53
    Looking at the upcoming schedule I think its safe to say the tank is in full effect.

  4. #54
    A close game but alas they lost. Off to the next game

  5. #55
    Zion out against Boston. This team make it hard to be a fan of.

    Zion out
    Ingram out
    Herb out
    Hawkins out.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by stevemadden504 View Post
    Zion out against Boston. This team make it hard to be a fan of.

    Zion out
    Ingram out
    Herb out
    Hawkins out.
    The tank is officially on it seems.

  7. #57
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    The less Zion plays the better. He's doing great right now in limited minutes and not getting hurt.

  8. #58
    A close game, Trey gettign 40. But it was still a loss. On to the next game.

  9. #59
    This team needs to learn to win without him anyways. Heavy load management from now on and get a squad that can do it next season.

  10. #60
    Murry is also out for the season, so that's unfortunate.

  11. #61
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    Torn achilles. He’ll never be the same. Such a terrible trade even before this injury.

  12. #62
    Snarky Optimistic Guy msusousaphone's Avatar
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    It's cool guys....it's not like we just renewed our contract with Ochsner Health or anything.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    Torn achilles. He’ll never be the same. Such a terrible trade even before this injury.
    Hope it isn't as bad as Cousins drop off.

  14. #64
    Pistol Pete Would Be Proud!! donato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_B_&_G View Post
    Hope it isn't as bad as Cousins drop off.
    Seriously. Cousins went from being pretty amazing to completely washed overnight.

    It's going to be brutal. It's very, very unlikely he'll be worth his cap hit and is definitely a negative asset now / virtually untradeable. We're on the hook for THREE more years with his salary. Next year he'll take up $31.5m, in 2026-2027 it'll cost us $33.6m and he'll for sure opt in for the player option so in 2027-2028 he'll count $31.6m against our cap. We're screwed big time. He finally becomes an UFA in 2028-2029 season.

    Then you figure we still have to give up 2 first rounders for him to ATL and watch Dyson earn all-nba defensive awards. Depressing state of affairs.

  15. #65
    I feel so sorry for the guy. Only hope is the chance that he comes back and maintains a solid level. He can still work heavily on his 3 game and improve in other ways to compensate for anything he may lose. Good luck to him. Sucks that we had to bring him into this situation and he now has to deal with this.

  16. #66
    It's pretty clear we're in for the tank.

    BI is gone this summer. CJ isn't much of anything anymore. Zion is probably gone sooner than later. In like 18-24 months DJ might be back to form assuming he recovers well and at that point we're not going to be winning and he becomes a trade asset (or at least dead salary).

    Best case realistic scenario is probably that we rebuild and can retain Herb, Murphy, Jose, Hawk, Botson, and Missi and dump the rest and just see what we have and go from there. Rebuild time again.

    It's pathetic that it's been 15 years since we've had a star on this team who gives a damn about winning. Hopefully this time we manage to get someone who cares and tries. See you all in a couple years? If Seattle gets a team before we're fun to watch again then I'll probably just start watching them.
    Quote Originally Posted by zakzak View Post
    that dumb Gentry killing Asik morale seriously man he is been good when you compare last season then suddenly he sits whole damn first half barely gets minutes what an idiot we need muscle wee need rebound he took of asik jones,ajinca they got no place on this team play Diallo at least he is decent.
    .......if healthy

    @Jabberwalker

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwalker View Post
    It's pretty clear we're in for the tank.

    BI is gone this summer. CJ isn't much of anything anymore. Zion is probably gone sooner than later. In like 18-24 months DJ might be back to form assuming he recovers well and at that point we're not going to be winning and he becomes a trade asset (or at least dead salary).

    Best case realistic scenario is probably that we rebuild and can retain Herb, Murphy, Jose, Hawk, Botson, and Missi and dump the rest and just see what we have and go from there. Rebuild time again.

    It's pathetic that it's been 15 years since we've had a star on this team who gives a damn about winning. Hopefully this time we manage to get someone who cares and tries. See you all in a couple years? If Seattle gets a team before we're fun to watch again then I'll probably just start watching them.
    It starts with Gayle and Griff imo. Maybe this situation would have been salvaged if we had better injury luck during the years. But even when healthy, we just looked totally dysfunctional. I attribute that to our horrible FO decisions in terms of staff. We brought in a rookie head coach pretty deep into the rebuild. Not a great decision, but whatever. The players didn't want a coach coach but a guy they can relate with. I understand that. But why is the GM letting the players control the decision? As for Green, if we hadn't hired him deep into a rebuild, okay. He makes sense. But we made some pretty big moves to acquire some very good players In Jonas and CJ. Not a bad idea if your team is established and winning, but why were we trying to rush a rookie head coach and pile the pressure on? It is a contradictory and weird thing to do. I think it hurt not only the players development but the head coaches. Neither learned to win the right way and we were carried by some really good veterans. Now that the injuries hit, Willie has been exposed as not good enough. It's a shame it had to drag out this long. For a minute we looked like we could break out at any moment, but we had to improve our brand of basketball. It just never happened. We need to get it right for once.

  18. #68
    No use in looking for a cause now. No one will be there after the rebuild.

    CJ was there because if rumors are to be believed, Zion was out the door if not for us adding a "star" to show we were committed.
    Green takes way too much heat. We went through how many coaches in how many years? None stuck. We found one that improved year after year that the players liked. That's better than anything we've had as a coach in longer than most of our players careers.
    We were regularly talked about as making good FO moves. There's nowhere to point the finger to. It just didn't work out again. Most likely there is no point in caring about the team again anytime soon.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwalker View Post
    No use in looking for a cause now. No one will be there after the rebuild.

    CJ was there because if rumors are to be believed, Zion was out the door if not for us adding a "star" to show we were committed.
    Green takes way too much heat. We went through how many coaches in how many years? None stuck. We found one that improved year after year that the players liked. That's better than anything we've had as a coach in longer than most of our players careers.
    We were regularly talked about as making good FO moves. There's nowhere to point the finger to. It just didn't work out again. Most likely there is no point in caring about the team again anytime soon.
    Griff has assembled a lot off talent on this team. But the SKC being built on that cemetary has taken its toll. Griff hasn't been perfect by any stretch but no GM is perfect. He has drafted better than any other GM since the franchise arrived from Charlotte. As for caring or not, when our teams suck I just like to watch individual players develop. Nobody can tell me it hasn't been fun watching Trey Murphy coming into his own despite thes circumstances. Missi has also been fun to watch. There are silver linings this year but it's absolutely time to make major changes. Whatever they shake out to be.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwalker View Post
    No use in looking for a cause now. No one will be there after the rebuild.

    CJ was there because if rumors are to be believed, Zion was out the door if not for us adding a "star" to show we were committed.
    Green takes way too much heat. We went through how many coaches in how many years? None stuck. We found one that improved year after year that the players liked. That's better than anything we've had as a coach in longer than most of our players careers.
    We were regularly talked about as making good FO moves. There's nowhere to point the finger to. It just didn't work out again. Most likely there is no point in caring about the team again anytime soon.
    Green gets an unfair amount of stick because Griff put him in that situation. I do not buy that Zion was out the door on a rookie contract. I call bull on that. He would literally be restricted. If the FO is that much of a pushover that is Griff's fault- i don't buy it. And keeping Gentry that extra year was a wildly poor decision. I think we can all agree on that. As for looking for causes- agreed. It is pointless as what's done is done. We need to rebuild and get it right. Griff has built a great team but got all of the other decisions wrong.
    Last edited by JJackisangry; 02-04-2025 at 03:43 PM.

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by JJackisangry View Post
    Green gets an unfair amount of stick because Griff put him in that situation. I do not buy that Zion was out the door on a rookie contract. I call bull on that. He would literally be restricted. If the FO is that much of a pushover that is Griff's fault- i don't buy it. And keeping Gentry that extra year was a wildly poor decision. I think we can all agree on that. As for looking for causes- agreed. It is pointless as what's done is done. We need to rebuild and get it right. Griff has built a great team but got all of the other decisions wrong.
    I doubt there was any danger of Zion asking out, I think they wanted to bring in CJ as a leader and a professional to set an example for Zion. Which, by the way, might wind up working (might not, obviously).

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by donato View Post
    Seriously. Cousins went from being pretty amazing to completely washed overnight.

    It's going to be brutal. It's very, very unlikely he'll be worth his cap hit and is definitely a negative asset now / virtually untradeable. We're on the hook for THREE more years with his salary. Next year he'll take up $31.5m, in 2026-2027 it'll cost us $33.6m and he'll for sure opt in for the player option so in 2027-2028 he'll count $31.6m against our cap. We're screwed big time. He finally becomes an UFA in 2028-2029 season.

    Then you figure we still have to give up 2 first rounders for him to ATL and watch Dyson earn all-nba defensive awards. Depressing state of affairs.
    This seems a bit much. Sure, Cousins was never the same after the achilles, but Durant seems to be doing just fine. Every player is different.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ml wave View Post
    This seems a bit much. Sure, Cousins was never the same after the achilles, but Durant seems to be doing just fine. Every player is different.
    I don't think it will be so horrible either. He's young and not a really big guy like DC. It really depends on how bad the tear is. Hopefully just partial and he will fully heal with a minimal loss in athleticism.

  24. #74
    This team is INCREDIBLY hard to watch. Poorly coached , poorly managed, injured almost constantly. Gayle is a very weak owner that seems content to just stand outside the locker room and hug the players as they walk by. I know we need to tank but it really is time to fire WG and see just what we have in Borrego before we let another good potential HC get away. WG will NEVER be the answer

  25. #75
    I wonder if Willie already been notified that they will be parting ways at the end of the season.

    At this point might as well shut Zion down for the season, why risk him getting injured again for a season that's going nowhere.

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